Holly2003
If this is very sensitive (I assume that's what you meant) material that Brian May is concerned about, what are you doing with it in the first instance?
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Wilki Amieva
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
If this is very sensitive (I assume that's what you meant) material that Brian May is concerned about, what are you doing with it in the first instance?
[/QUOTE]
I think The Real Wizard already explained this in this very topic. When you bid for a rare cassette tape, most of the time you don't know what you're biding for until you paid for it and its yours. In this case, the tape contained a lot of worthy material - some sensitive (thanks for the correction), some not.
If this is very sensitive (I assume that's what you meant) material that Brian May is concerned about, what are you doing with it in the first instance?
[/QUOTE]
I think The Real Wizard already explained this in this very topic. When you bid for a rare cassette tape, most of the time you don't know what you're biding for until you paid for it and its yours. In this case, the tape contained a lot of worthy material - some sensitive (thanks for the correction), some not.
Holly2003
Hmmm... you seemed to be suggesting something else, that Brian May was concerned that Fuller had released sensitive material. And yet you guys have this material in your possession. You can't have it both ways. You either care what Brian May thinks or you don't but you have to be consistant: you can't trot him out to support your case when one collector annoys you. In any event, your extremely sunny description of events above, which paints collectors as entirely altruistic, suggests you were going to release this material to the masses anyway, except Fuller beat you to it! So what eactly was your point again? Material got out that you didn't want to get out? My heart bleeds for you ...
Wilki Amieva
I don't have to explain myself. And I'm asking no-one to explain herself/himself. I'm just telling some facts. If you don't want to aknowledge them, Holly, there's nothing I can do to help it. And it's OK. If you want to understand what I've stated, just read again my first post in this topic, all of it. I've nothing to add.
Holly2003
[QUOTE]
[b]Wilki Amieva wrote: [/b] I don't have to explain myself. And I'm asking no-one to explain herself/himself. I'm just telling some facts. If you don't want to aknowledge them, Holly, there's nothing I can do to help it. And it's OK. If you want to understand what I've stated, just read again my first post in this topic, all of it. I've nothing to add.[/QUOTE]
If you don't have to explain yoursslf then why did you try to err.. explain yourself? lol
You just don;t like the questions ...
This is where these conversations always end up: feeble defense of their activities by collectors, some tough questions then ... "I'm taking my ball home, I don't like you any more and you can't play with it".
lol
[b]Wilki Amieva wrote: [/b] I don't have to explain myself. And I'm asking no-one to explain herself/himself. I'm just telling some facts. If you don't want to aknowledge them, Holly, there's nothing I can do to help it. And it's OK. If you want to understand what I've stated, just read again my first post in this topic, all of it. I've nothing to add.[/QUOTE]
If you don't have to explain yoursslf then why did you try to err.. explain yourself? lol
You just don;t like the questions ...
This is where these conversations always end up: feeble defense of their activities by collectors, some tough questions then ... "I'm taking my ball home, I don't like you any more and you can't play with it".
lol
Wilki Amieva
Pointless to discuss things with you, Holly. You don't want to debate, just to attack. I believe the answers you ask for are already in this post. There's really nothing to add.
I am not explaining myself - again, I really don't feel the need to. I'm just telling some facts. You can either like them or not. But don't kill the messenger.
If you feel inclined to defend Fuller's actions - that's fine with me. Perhaps he gave you something earlier than you could possibly expect, and you like that. I do understand that. But that won't change the facts. And to be honest, I hope I'm overestimating the possible nasty consequences of some of his cheats and lies.
I am not explaining myself - again, I really don't feel the need to. I'm just telling some facts. You can either like them or not. But don't kill the messenger.
If you feel inclined to defend Fuller's actions - that's fine with me. Perhaps he gave you something earlier than you could possibly expect, and you like that. I do understand that. But that won't change the facts. And to be honest, I hope I'm overestimating the possible nasty consequences of some of his cheats and lies.
Holly2003
Err... no, you don't get away that easy. You made a number of assertions that you are now not prepared to explain. YOU don't want to debate. And that's fine: like I said earlier, you guys should shut the hell up about your collecting problems and keep it all off the forum. But that also means when something leaks out you need to shut up about that too and don't criticise the leaker.
Either that, or change the way you do business.
Either that, or change the way you do business.
Wilki Amieva
It's pointless, Holly - as I am telling you: You're NOT reading.
The stuff was SHARED with Mr. Fuller (mind that he was Mr. Emptier then :). All the listed material, freely, as the Fanthology would be sharing most of it eventually. There was no trade.
(Nor there were/are 'collecting problems' I am aware of. Most of us collect actual items, and we have continued to do so.)
There was no 'business' involved... You ask for a change - yet you side with the wrong people. David is now selling the stuff. How's that positive?
The Fanthology was the change. It wanted to get stuff from people not inclined to share, provided they would benefit with a lot of rarities for a while, and then share most of them with everyone for free. He has made that task virtually impossible now - for several reasons. The Fanthology wanted to do it right. Using the best transfers (some still in the making) from the most original sources to be gathered (still working on this, but it's getting more difficult as we speak) and with all the researched information, properly compiled (that implies a lot of time).
(There were of course some things -I'm guessing here- the Fanthology wouldn't have shared nor traded: Private/intimate stuff and also stuff from forthcoming releases - as they would have affected the artists.)
After all this, I believe 'hoarding' would become a standard practice in the near future.
Once again, thanks David!
The stuff was SHARED with Mr. Fuller (mind that he was Mr. Emptier then :). All the listed material, freely, as the Fanthology would be sharing most of it eventually. There was no trade.
(Nor there were/are 'collecting problems' I am aware of. Most of us collect actual items, and we have continued to do so.)
There was no 'business' involved... You ask for a change - yet you side with the wrong people. David is now selling the stuff. How's that positive?
The Fanthology was the change. It wanted to get stuff from people not inclined to share, provided they would benefit with a lot of rarities for a while, and then share most of them with everyone for free. He has made that task virtually impossible now - for several reasons. The Fanthology wanted to do it right. Using the best transfers (some still in the making) from the most original sources to be gathered (still working on this, but it's getting more difficult as we speak) and with all the researched information, properly compiled (that implies a lot of time).
(There were of course some things -I'm guessing here- the Fanthology wouldn't have shared nor traded: Private/intimate stuff and also stuff from forthcoming releases - as they would have affected the artists.)
After all this, I believe 'hoarding' would become a standard practice in the near future.
Once again, thanks David!
brians wig
I think Wilki has hit the nail on the head with his last post.
Sadly, we don't live in a world where everyone shares freely and so trading rarities to obtain other rarities is a necessary evil.
Fuller is continuing to shaft some of the biggest collectors in the world who have legitimately paid megabucks for acetates and reels in auctions for this material that they were slowly beginning to share.
I can only imagine how some of them will be feeling knowing that this material is now being openly sold.
Of course, the people who will benefit most will be the bootleg companies who will release it on CD at extortionate prices...
Sadly, we don't live in a world where everyone shares freely and so trading rarities to obtain other rarities is a necessary evil.
Fuller is continuing to shaft some of the biggest collectors in the world who have legitimately paid megabucks for acetates and reels in auctions for this material that they were slowly beginning to share.
I can only imagine how some of them will be feeling knowing that this material is now being openly sold.
Of course, the people who will benefit most will be the bootleg companies who will release it on CD at extortionate prices...
TenementFunster91
[QUOTE] [b]Wilki Amieva wrote:[/b]
Then some of us conformed the Fanthology, and we decided to open the game to some people beyond the realms of collecting, to gather the best sourced material and all the accessory info available, with the aim of making the best fan-made anthology (hence the name) we could, and eventually SHARE it for FREE and ANONYMOUSLY. And it was very good.
We were really trying to change things for the better.
The ONLY bad thing about that group was -strangely enough- one member who exposed very sensitive (Brian May was concerned about it) material to gain personal fame and then lied to us. And -strangely enough- he left the group without never contributing anything. Nada. Nothing. Zip. Zero. To be fair, we didn't expect him to contribute much material - after all, he was not a collector. He was invited because he was proficient in YouTube affairs, and we thought he might be able to offer some expertise at the sharing stage. But it seems he didn't want to share (no pun intended) the credit.[/QUOTE]
So you shared rare material that was going to be released eventually to David out of the kindness of your hearts and being the douchebag that he is, he didn't only release stuff taking all the credit because he's an attention whore but now he's going to sell it all. So my question is why don't you release everything that was intended so Dave gets no profit or further attention and gets lost?
[QUOTE] [b]Wilki Amieva wrote:[/b]
We, the Fanthology, were the change. We wanted to get stuff from people not inclined to share, provided they would benefit with a lot of rarities for a while, and then share most of them with everyone for free. He has made that task virtually impossible now - for several reasons. We wanted to do it right. Using the best transfers (some still in the making) from the most original sources we could gather (we are still working on this, but it's getting more difficult as we speak) and with all the researched information, properly compiled (that implies a lot of time).
(There were of course some things -I'm guessing here- we wouldn't have shared nor traded: Private/intimate stuff and also stuff from forthcoming releases - as they would have affected the artists.)
After all this, I believe 'hoarding' would become a standard practice in the near future. [/QUOTE]
Alright, we get it, Dave sabotaged this great endeavor, Dave sucks. But if you're sincere, the question remains, why wait for David himself or his buyers to make it public and not just take the initiative? What's done is done.
[QUOTE] [b]brians wig wrote:[/b]
Of course, the people who will benefit most will be the bootleg companies who will release it on CD at extortionate prices...
[/QUOTE]
And after the first buyer uploads it all on youtube, only dumbfucks will pay for the CD.
Then some of us conformed the Fanthology, and we decided to open the game to some people beyond the realms of collecting, to gather the best sourced material and all the accessory info available, with the aim of making the best fan-made anthology (hence the name) we could, and eventually SHARE it for FREE and ANONYMOUSLY. And it was very good.
We were really trying to change things for the better.
The ONLY bad thing about that group was -strangely enough- one member who exposed very sensitive (Brian May was concerned about it) material to gain personal fame and then lied to us. And -strangely enough- he left the group without never contributing anything. Nada. Nothing. Zip. Zero. To be fair, we didn't expect him to contribute much material - after all, he was not a collector. He was invited because he was proficient in YouTube affairs, and we thought he might be able to offer some expertise at the sharing stage. But it seems he didn't want to share (no pun intended) the credit.[/QUOTE]
So you shared rare material that was going to be released eventually to David out of the kindness of your hearts and being the douchebag that he is, he didn't only release stuff taking all the credit because he's an attention whore but now he's going to sell it all. So my question is why don't you release everything that was intended so Dave gets no profit or further attention and gets lost?
[QUOTE] [b]Wilki Amieva wrote:[/b]
We, the Fanthology, were the change. We wanted to get stuff from people not inclined to share, provided they would benefit with a lot of rarities for a while, and then share most of them with everyone for free. He has made that task virtually impossible now - for several reasons. We wanted to do it right. Using the best transfers (some still in the making) from the most original sources we could gather (we are still working on this, but it's getting more difficult as we speak) and with all the researched information, properly compiled (that implies a lot of time).
(There were of course some things -I'm guessing here- we wouldn't have shared nor traded: Private/intimate stuff and also stuff from forthcoming releases - as they would have affected the artists.)
After all this, I believe 'hoarding' would become a standard practice in the near future. [/QUOTE]
Alright, we get it, Dave sabotaged this great endeavor, Dave sucks. But if you're sincere, the question remains, why wait for David himself or his buyers to make it public and not just take the initiative? What's done is done.
[QUOTE] [b]brians wig wrote:[/b]
Of course, the people who will benefit most will be the bootleg companies who will release it on CD at extortionate prices...
[/QUOTE]
And after the first buyer uploads it all on youtube, only dumbfucks will pay for the CD.
inu-liger
[QUOTE] [b]TenementFunster91 wrote:[/b]
So my question is why don't you release everything that was intended so Dave gets no profit or further attention and gets lost?
[/QUOTE]
BECAUSE, if you had even bothered to read and take in Wilki's explanation which I can see you didn't, the missive of the Fanthology group was to collect together all the available unreleased, uncirculated material from all sources possible, and filter out the multiple sources for certain items to allow the BEST QUALITY MATERIAL possible to reach your hard drives and ears.
This is a problem with Queen fans really, they want it all, and they want it NOW, quality control be damned!
So my question is why don't you release everything that was intended so Dave gets no profit or further attention and gets lost?
[/QUOTE]
BECAUSE, if you had even bothered to read and take in Wilki's explanation which I can see you didn't, the missive of the Fanthology group was to collect together all the available unreleased, uncirculated material from all sources possible, and filter out the multiple sources for certain items to allow the BEST QUALITY MATERIAL possible to reach your hard drives and ears.
This is a problem with Queen fans really, they want it all, and they want it NOW, quality control be damned!
Wilki Amieva
[QUOTE] [b]inu-liger wrote:[/b]
This is a problem with Queen fans really, they want it all, and they want it NOW, quality control be damned![/QUOTE]
...And those are the very same fans that rip their clothes off at every QPL release because ...lack of quality control! Haha!
But seriously... For my part, I would like to hear most of that material shared "as is" - even if that means that the web will be polluted with inferior copies (yes, as I mentioned, the best-possible-quality digital transfers are still to be made, correct speed/pitch, phasing, etc.) and that the material would reach the bootleggers without any countermeasure. But I 'own' just a tiny part of that list, TenementFunster91, so it's not (entirely) a decision I would make. Also, we would have loved to remain anonymous, because there are a lot of legal considerations (it seems Mr. Fuller feels he's beyond the law, but the laws ARE there).
It seems that everyone here wants to ask me questions, so let's reciprocate: Which amongst you would be willing to pay for that stuff? Would you be so kind to make a donation to the Mercury Phoenix Trust in the name of the Fanthology if we release some of it? Perhaps a nice gesture some of you could change some minds...
This is a problem with Queen fans really, they want it all, and they want it NOW, quality control be damned![/QUOTE]
...And those are the very same fans that rip their clothes off at every QPL release because ...lack of quality control! Haha!
But seriously... For my part, I would like to hear most of that material shared "as is" - even if that means that the web will be polluted with inferior copies (yes, as I mentioned, the best-possible-quality digital transfers are still to be made, correct speed/pitch, phasing, etc.) and that the material would reach the bootleggers without any countermeasure. But I 'own' just a tiny part of that list, TenementFunster91, so it's not (entirely) a decision I would make. Also, we would have loved to remain anonymous, because there are a lot of legal considerations (it seems Mr. Fuller feels he's beyond the law, but the laws ARE there).
It seems that everyone here wants to ask me questions, so let's reciprocate: Which amongst you would be willing to pay for that stuff? Would you be so kind to make a donation to the Mercury Phoenix Trust in the name of the Fanthology if we release some of it? Perhaps a nice gesture some of you could change some minds...
inu-liger
Re: Fuller thinking he's beyond the law...
Honestly, it would not surprise me if he was diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Honestly, it would not surprise me if he was diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder
GratefulFan
Whatever one thinks of Fuller he is a seriously intuitive strategist. I wouldn't eliminate either prison or the presidency at this point.
GratefulFan
[QUOTE] [b]Wilki Amieva wrote:[/b]
It seems that everyone here wants to ask me questions, so let's reciprocate: Which amongst you would be willing to pay for that stuff? Would you be so kind to make a donation to the Mercury Phoenix Trust in the name of the Fanthology if we release some of it? Perhaps a nice gesture some of you could change some minds...[/QUOTE]
Truly unbelievable. After years of openly treating people like beggars and sometimes addressing them as such directly, and after years of implicit suggestions as recently as yesterday that rings ought to be be kissed with every release, and after a day of transparent and organized pressure and propaganda against the idea of Fuller making his material available to the common Queenzoner and the common good, do you really think you are in any position to to be asking for "nice gestures" that "perhaps" might "change some minds"? That is an insulting and delusional level of arrogance.
Understand this. You have lost control of this situation, at least as far as this material goes. David Fuller is not an aberrant bit of bad luck that happened to you, he is 100% your creation. Here's a suggestion for you, and for everybody else. Read this thread top to bottom. Really well. Pay particular attention to Holly, who even for him was incredibly acute and pithy. Then it might be a "nice gesture" that "perhaps might change some minds" about just who it is - you or the community - that deserves to be in control of this material for you to acknowledge that it's always been a bit of a stacked deck, that your self interest has never been any less grubby than our self interest, and that your sustained smear campaign against Fuller has always served to hide the fact that you have no good argument against his fundamental desire to strike a new balance between collector's rights and privileges and the other way to "care" about music: get it out there before it is so anachronistic as to be eligible for social security benefits.
Shockingly transparent that this new flexibility didn't come until there was a suggestion of a group purchase on the 'Selling Queen Demos?' thread in Serious Discussion. Stop treating people like serfs and idiots. And I wouldn't bet five cents that Fuller wouldn't release the whole list for a donation to the MPT instead. Either way, whatever comes of this, it's blindingly clear just who all that thanks you folks like deserves to go to here.
It seems that everyone here wants to ask me questions, so let's reciprocate: Which amongst you would be willing to pay for that stuff? Would you be so kind to make a donation to the Mercury Phoenix Trust in the name of the Fanthology if we release some of it? Perhaps a nice gesture some of you could change some minds...[/QUOTE]
Truly unbelievable. After years of openly treating people like beggars and sometimes addressing them as such directly, and after years of implicit suggestions as recently as yesterday that rings ought to be be kissed with every release, and after a day of transparent and organized pressure and propaganda against the idea of Fuller making his material available to the common Queenzoner and the common good, do you really think you are in any position to to be asking for "nice gestures" that "perhaps" might "change some minds"? That is an insulting and delusional level of arrogance.
Understand this. You have lost control of this situation, at least as far as this material goes. David Fuller is not an aberrant bit of bad luck that happened to you, he is 100% your creation. Here's a suggestion for you, and for everybody else. Read this thread top to bottom. Really well. Pay particular attention to Holly, who even for him was incredibly acute and pithy. Then it might be a "nice gesture" that "perhaps might change some minds" about just who it is - you or the community - that deserves to be in control of this material for you to acknowledge that it's always been a bit of a stacked deck, that your self interest has never been any less grubby than our self interest, and that your sustained smear campaign against Fuller has always served to hide the fact that you have no good argument against his fundamental desire to strike a new balance between collector's rights and privileges and the other way to "care" about music: get it out there before it is so anachronistic as to be eligible for social security benefits.
Shockingly transparent that this new flexibility didn't come until there was a suggestion of a group purchase on the 'Selling Queen Demos?' thread in Serious Discussion. Stop treating people like serfs and idiots. And I wouldn't bet five cents that Fuller wouldn't release the whole list for a donation to the MPT instead. Either way, whatever comes of this, it's blindingly clear just who all that thanks you folks like deserves to go to here.