Selling Queen Demoes & Rarities (David R Fuller, and the like)

Hello. I've not been here for ages. I had a quick look last night...

I was interested to see general outrage, for the most part, on this site, in relation to David R Fuller selling what are effectively stolen rare Queen (officially unreleased) studio out-take recordings, to other Queen fans - to the highest bidder, basically. What a nasty little individual he must be!

A lot of you are rightly irritated, offended in some cases, that people like this are seemingly getting away with it, with (apparently) no interest from QPL, and nothing in the way of a deterrent.

I can assure you this is NOT the case. The band and its management hates the fact that these recordings are 'out there' in the public domain at all, in any form, because they are were never intended to be heard. Such things are unfinished generally rough works in progress, intended for the bands' ears only. It's really a matter of "How dare you steal our property and then have the audacity to SELL it on!"

I wonder how Mr Fuller would like it if somebody stole HIS private unfinished work (be it an early draft book manuscript, rough song demo, or half finished oil painting) and then set up 'shop' on the internet selling these things for their own selfish gain. I'm sure he'd be equally put out!

Too often these days, and to most peoples bewilderment, there suddenly emerges weasley little money-grabbing individuals like David R Fuller-crap, who crawl out from the shadows and offer up other people's property, in this case QUEEN recordings, for their own personal financial gain. It is, as many of you rightly say, about as despicable and lowlife as it is possible to get.

QPL definitely does take this seriously. It looks to have all and every such example removed from places like YouTube, and where possible accounts suspended so that they can't simply set up again a day or two later and carry on.

QPL does not turn a blind eye to this type of illegal profiteering and ripping off of unsuspecting Queen fans.

I personally find it incredible how blatant and in-your-face these people mostly are... though Fuller seems a good deal more brazen than most of them. This guy is about as subtle as a sledge hammer in the dangly bits!!!

Anyway... you'll notice that he's gone from YouTube, hopefully for good, and that he and others like him will be removed as soon as we're aware of any such instances as those I've described.

Has anyone here, just out of interest, sent this guy any money? What does he have that isn't available from elsewhere on the net for free? And where the hell does he get it from??

I'm very intrigued.

Regards

GB

I haven't sent him any money but I'm curious, if Fuller wasn't selling the recordings but just releasing them to share with fans, would that make it OK? By OK, I mean that while QPL would prefer that the recordings hadn't got out in the first place (understandably so!), QPL would still turn a blind eye as long as no one is profiting from the releases?

QPL should release this stuff and make money from it, that will solve a lot of issues! While it wasn't intended to be released, it'd be great to hear these demos, etc from a band who can no longer release studio albums with the original line up.

[QUOTE] [b]GB: Queen Archivist wrote:[/b]Anyway... you'll notice that he's gone from YouTube, hopefully for good, and that he and others like him will be removed as soon as we're aware of any such instances as those I've described. [/QUOTE] I wouldn't be so sure of that, Greg... His account is still very well up and running par his course: http://www.youtube.com/daverfuller QPL will have to file enough copyright claims again to really get his account shut down.

Fair enough points made Greg, and I do understand the band's feelings and position on this.

You have also asked the most pertinent question, which is 'where does he get the stuff from?', which has always been intruging to me. Although Queen may well 'shut him down', to me the analogy can be made to the Police seizing the stash of a local drug user, but not making much effort to find out who is actually running the drug ring higher up the chain; in this case that would be finding out exactly who is suppying the leaked tracks to start with. It's all well and good shutting down the immediate public link, but if the person/people who leak the stuff are still able to, they will most likely just leak it to someone else.

There does seem to be a 'magic circle' of collectors that gather here, of which Fuller was, for a time, a member. They are known to trade amongst themselves, and it seems that Fuller broke rank and starting sharing the material with us 'mere mortal fans' - and now has clearly overstepped an already dubious line by selling it off to the highest bidder. However, it's a fair guess that the stolen/leaked Queen tracks that Fuller has been shut down for originated from this group, so I would point QPL in their direction - they are as guilty as Fuller in that they are knowingly trading in 'dubiously' obtained material, albeit they are not openly selling it for profit. I suppose it depends on whether the band has any motivation to want to stop the leaks altogether, or are ok with them being 'out there' but just want to stop them being sold?

Do the leaks come from Justin Shirley-Smith?, from Josh MacRae?, from some bitter ex-engineer or studio hand at EMI?!, from John Deacon?!!

It would be lovely to find out wouldn't it?

GB - a quick question - what do QPL think about fans sharing unreleased live recordings here FOR FREE ?

GB said:

I was interested to see general outrage, for the most part, on this site, in relation to David R Fuller selling what are effectively stolen rare Queen (officially unreleased) studio out-take recordings, to other Queen fans - to the highest bidder, basically. What a nasty little individual he must be! 
[b]
Well SOME people are outraged -- those collectors who have most to gain by keeping these things under wraps. Most others could care less it seems. It's the usual suspects complaining the most.[/b]

I can assure you this is NOT the case. The band and its management hates the fact that these recordings are 'out there' in the public domain at all, in any form, because they are were never intended to be heard. 

[b]lol! Some of those doing the most complaining are up to their necks in trading this stuff between them. It was only when Fuller publicly released this stuff to a wider audience that the hate campaign against him started here.[/b]

Too often these days, and to most peoples bewilderment, there suddenly emerges weasley little money-grabbing individuals like David R Fuller-crap, who crawl out from the shadows and offer up other people's property, in this case QUEEN recordings, for their own personal financial gain. It is, as many of you rightly say, about as despicable and lowlife as it is possible to get. 

[b]Well murder, child abuse etc is of course more despicable and lowlife but disregardng the hyperbole, the only evidence presented here on Queenzone that Fuller is selling rather than just trading is a single Tumblr webpage message that has since disappeared. Given the hatred SOME collectors have for him it wouldn't surprise me at all if that webpage was fake, to draw attention of the "authorities" to Fuller. [/b]

 QPL definitely does take this seriously. It looks to have all and every such example removed from places like YouTube, and where possible accounts suspended so that they can't simply set up again a day or two later and carry on. 

[b]I don't see the problem with his Youtube account. He is sharing unreleased poor quality demos, live recordings etc, no different to the sharing forum on Queenzone. QP are hardly likely to lose any money from this because it doesn't compete with already-released official releases. And of course most of this stuff will never be released.
  [/b] 
  QPL does not turn a blind eye to this type of illegal profiteering and ripping off of unsuspecting Queen fans. 
I personally find it incredible how blatant and in-your-face these people mostly are... though Fuller seems a good deal more brazen than most of them. This guy is about as subtle as a sledge hammer in the dangly bits!!! 

[b]Who is being "ripped off"? "Unsuspecting Queen fans"? Really? Even if he is selling stuff, he's doing a better job of getting rare stuff to the fans than QP. And -- ffs! -- do you honestly expect us to be sympathetic to Queen about cash? They are among the wealthiest people in the UK and we're in the middle of the biggest recession since the 1930s? Get real. 
[/b]
Has anyone here, just out of interest, sent this guy any money? What does he have that isn't available from elsewhere on the net for free? And where the hell does he get it from??  I'm very intrigued. 

[b]lol! Anyone who supplies this info to you is a total idiot. Besides, I'm pretty sure some of those doing the most moaning on this website could let you know where a lot of this material comes from.[/b]

You don't let us hear Queen rarities, so You are stealing that music to us who spent all the money for Queen stuff !!
I gave queen all my childhood money and i am still giving...so i have the right to be given some rare stuff, in any way !!!

And the band can be sure that we understand that mistakes or strange songs are due to good reasons.

Give us Queen bits, c'mon c'mon c'mon !!

[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]

There does seem to be a 'magic circle' of collectors that gather here, of which Fuller was, for a time, a member. They are known to trade amongst themselves, and it seems that Fuller broke rank and starting sharing the material with us 'mere mortal fans'.

[/QUOTE]

Seriously, it's a small group of fans who came together out of a mutual love of Queen. Where is the harm in that?

Hi Greg...

You are right, no one should be profiteering from someone else`s intellectual property its unscrupulous and wrong, but in the real world, and sadly that is what we live in, this happens all the time as I am sure you are aware. QPL could spend loads of money on top barristers trying to stop it, but it will continue either in full view or hidden, the selling of such things in the music business has gone on for years and years, top artists cant even release anything these days without it being leaked on to the internet days before. As you know in the UK trading standards/police are pretty hot on these sorts of things so you struggle to find such things mainstream other than car boot sales, but you can go to most European countries and buy a cd of out-takes for many different groups, I bought `rare out-takes ` of Queen on various CD`s years ago in France.

However, with regard to the person that you are talking about, all I have ever seen is that you can listen to out-takes for free on youtube, ive never seen anything offered for sale by him, so its really heresay to say that about him.

Theres only one way to beat them isn't there, produce your own `Official` CD/DVD of such out-takes/demos...how mad will these people be then...its up to QPL now.

Why get upset/mad about something you are never going to stop, its just a waste of energy/money in the end.

Thanks for listening and I look forward to that Big Box Set you mentioned some years ago, put me down for a copy.

:)

Mark

....maybe the demos came directly from the queen archive. But I can not remember who has access there .... :-)

Jesus, what a load of bollocks.

Firstly, while I agree that an artist should have control over his product and what gets out, I am certainly not going to weep buckets for the financial position of May, Taylor, Deacon, Beach and Austin.

And for GB to say, in the week that that Phillpot twat is convicted for killing his children, that Fuller is "about as despicable and lowlife as it is possible to get" suggests that he needs to re-examine his own ethical codes and moral compass.

This stuff has fuck-all effect on the sales of Queen's official releases. And if they are officialy released in the future you can be sure that 99.99% of people with the bootleg versions will snap them up.

i can't see the argument. This is on a microscopic scale. Is GB the voice of QPL here? Because if he is then they are presenting themselves as an unsavoury company of nasty, bullying, money-grabbing individuals who seem to be happy to turn on the mouths that originally fed them.

Bob Geldof once got all worked up because people were selling copies of Live Aid on Ebay. But there was no official release. For years he pratted on about contractual problems for not releasing it. But suddenly he appeared to becomes aware of the fact that when people really want something they will take it upon themselves to get it and, voila, the contractual issues suddenly disappear. We got a decent copy of the gig and the charity got the money.

So GB, pass on some rocket science to your masters. If you don't want the 'collectors' or 'fanthology' or whatever the fuck they call themselves, to trade this stuff - RELEASE IT. And line your miserable fat-bastard pockets a bit more at the same time.







,

Well said, splickspak

[QUOTE] [b]splicksplack wrote:[/b]

So GB, pass on some rocket science to your masters. If you don't want the 'collectors' or 'fanthology' or whatever the fuck they call themselves, to trade this stuff - RELEASE IT.
[/QUOTE]

AMEN

[QUOTE] [b]GB: Queen Archivist wrote:[/b]

And where the hell does he get it from??

I'm very intrigued.

Regards

GB



[/QUOTE]

I think your good friend John S Stuart gave a clear answer overhere: http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1341788/selling-queen-demos.aspx?page=2