aion
Does that mean that we should rule out any possibility of his ashes singing? Hardly!
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[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]
He was cremated...[/QUOTE]Just what I was thinking :-)
He was cremated...[/QUOTE]Just what I was thinking :-)
Sebastian
[QUOTE] [b]Mr.QueenFan wrote:[/b]
I respect your point of view, but we´re talking about different things here. [/QUOTE]
Yes, you're right, seeing the Titanic break is not the same as believing the earth was flat, so I stand corrected.
Knowing when Freddie's last recording was, however, is different from both as well, as at the time, *nobody* knew which visit to the studios would be his last (as they weren't soothsayers, as far as we know).
I respect your point of view, but we´re talking about different things here. [/QUOTE]
Yes, you're right, seeing the Titanic break is not the same as believing the earth was flat, so I stand corrected.
Knowing when Freddie's last recording was, however, is different from both as well, as at the time, *nobody* knew which visit to the studios would be his last (as they weren't soothsayers, as far as we know).
cmsdrums
So, to sum up, since 1991 Brian and Roger though the world was flat, but recently they have been provided with snippets of evidence that Freddie recorded for them (though we're not sure if this was up to, or after May 1991), to contradict this view, and now they are going to come out and say that, although they'd previously sworn otherwise before, they now believe it to be round based on proof Freddie left behind that they didn't know about before?
Have I understood correctly??
Have I understood correctly??
Heavenite
Yes, that's the problem. And it's happened three times now, if you include Roger's "bottom scraping exercise" remarks as an another example of this. And like I said, there is a big motivation for the band to say every release would be Freddie's last, both in terms of sales and to stop any hassling to release what's left that might otherwise come their way.
But even if they are doing this (and releasing stuff all of a sudden after 18 years later does suggest to me that this is possible), the objective evidence we have been told about still suggests his recordings ended with Mother Love.
I think that leaves us in a position where once again it's only reasonable to assume that next year's release of recordings will indeed be the last fully fledged album that Queen will release, unless they tell us otherwise. Whether they backflip in the future yet again will only be proved at the time it actually happens, if indeed it ever does happen.
However, the fact that Queen has signed a new deal to release rarities in the future does indicate that there is still some interesting material to come, which will include stuff like live versions and demo versions that a Queen fan will definitely want to hear.
The extra EPs that came with the rerelease of the Queen catalogue might therefore be a good taster of what is to come in this respect.
But even if they are doing this (and releasing stuff all of a sudden after 18 years later does suggest to me that this is possible), the objective evidence we have been told about still suggests his recordings ended with Mother Love.
I think that leaves us in a position where once again it's only reasonable to assume that next year's release of recordings will indeed be the last fully fledged album that Queen will release, unless they tell us otherwise. Whether they backflip in the future yet again will only be proved at the time it actually happens, if indeed it ever does happen.
However, the fact that Queen has signed a new deal to release rarities in the future does indicate that there is still some interesting material to come, which will include stuff like live versions and demo versions that a Queen fan will definitely want to hear.
The extra EPs that came with the rerelease of the Queen catalogue might therefore be a good taster of what is to come in this respect.
Heavenite
[QUOTE] [b]aion wrote:[/b]
Maybe they should dig up Freddie's coffin to see if he's done any recordings with a portable cassette recorder while dead? After all, the fact that we aren't aware of any cases where a dead person has sung songs doesn't mean it's 100% impossible - people once believed that the Earth was flat, similarly everyone may now only *believe* that the dead can't sing. So should they check the coffin, just in case?
Reading these boards is kind of depressing and I have to stop it because people are so terribly stuck in the past... desperately wishing to get one more album from a person who died long ago. Must remind oneself that there are actually bands out there that don't have to resort to archaelogical diggings to release a new album.
There is nothing to suggest that another Freddie Mercury album could emerge, much less that one should. If there is even one unheard, good and proper song in the archives - which is unlikely - I suppose it might be nice to hear it on some anthology, but anything more than that is just wishful longing for the past, macabre barrel-scraping and sad attempt from B & R to stay in headlines.
Must-try-to-move-on...[/QUOTE]
That's all fair enough if Freddie didn't actually want and leave other music for Brian, Roger and John to release or record properly after he was gone. But if he did, then I think putting that music out is simply fulfilling Freddie's wishes.
We know that Mother Love and A Winter's Tale were recorded post Innuendo, and if there's anything else that is up to scratch, then I expect Freddie would have wanted it to have also seen the light of day.
Ultimately I guess only when we hear next year's release will we know whether this was a barrel scraping exercise or much more than that. But based on Made In Heaven, I think most people would say there is reason to be hopeful that the bottom has not yet been reached at this point.
But ultimately, the proof is in the pudding, and that is expected to be out at some point in 2014, based on the latest info from Roger that I've seen in the interview he did for the Toronto Sun in mid-December.
Maybe they should dig up Freddie's coffin to see if he's done any recordings with a portable cassette recorder while dead? After all, the fact that we aren't aware of any cases where a dead person has sung songs doesn't mean it's 100% impossible - people once believed that the Earth was flat, similarly everyone may now only *believe* that the dead can't sing. So should they check the coffin, just in case?
Reading these boards is kind of depressing and I have to stop it because people are so terribly stuck in the past... desperately wishing to get one more album from a person who died long ago. Must remind oneself that there are actually bands out there that don't have to resort to archaelogical diggings to release a new album.
There is nothing to suggest that another Freddie Mercury album could emerge, much less that one should. If there is even one unheard, good and proper song in the archives - which is unlikely - I suppose it might be nice to hear it on some anthology, but anything more than that is just wishful longing for the past, macabre barrel-scraping and sad attempt from B & R to stay in headlines.
Must-try-to-move-on...[/QUOTE]
That's all fair enough if Freddie didn't actually want and leave other music for Brian, Roger and John to release or record properly after he was gone. But if he did, then I think putting that music out is simply fulfilling Freddie's wishes.
We know that Mother Love and A Winter's Tale were recorded post Innuendo, and if there's anything else that is up to scratch, then I expect Freddie would have wanted it to have also seen the light of day.
Ultimately I guess only when we hear next year's release will we know whether this was a barrel scraping exercise or much more than that. But based on Made In Heaven, I think most people would say there is reason to be hopeful that the bottom has not yet been reached at this point.
But ultimately, the proof is in the pudding, and that is expected to be out at some point in 2014, based on the latest info from Roger that I've seen in the interview he did for the Toronto Sun in mid-December.
aion
[QUOTE] [b]Heavenite wrote:[/b]That's all fair enough if Freddie didn't actually want and leave other music for Brian, Roger and John to release or record properly after he was gone. But if he did, then I think putting that music out is simply fulfilling Freddie's wishes.
We know that Mother Love and A Winter's Tale were recorded post Innuendo, and if there's anything else that is up to scratch, then I expect Freddie would have wanted it to have also seen the light of day.
Ultimately I guess only when we hear next year's release will we know whether this was a barrel scraping exercise or much more than that. But based on Made In Heaven, I think most people would say there is reason to be hopeful that the bottom has not yet been reached at this point.
But ultimately, the proof is in the pudding, and that is expected to be out at some point in 2014, based on the latest info from Roger that I've seen in the interview he did for the Toronto Sun in mid-December.
[/QUOTE]Freddie intended his last songs to be released but that doesn't automatically mean that he wanted everything he ever did released, including bare ideas like 'Gazelle', or that he wanted every old discarded demo worked up by Brian and Roger as 'new' Queen songs. To me it seems more like B & R have been lately using Freddie's "last will" as an excuse to do anything to everything they can get their hands onto.
The situation with the material is this: Queen were never very prolific artists. Throughout the 80s they wrote only 9-10 songs for an album although all four of them were capable songwriters. You were lucky if you got one extra song as a B-side. For AKOM, I don't think there was any additional song done - and there is still filler on the album even though there's only 9 songs on it! So it wasn't quite the same situation as with for example Bruce Springsteen who used to record 40 songs in his sessions and then picked the tip of the iceberg for the album.
Sadly, I think Freddie even confessed in a Miracle-era radio interview that their working method wasn't as laborious: when they had enough songs for an album they recorded them and that was it; they didn't have interest to make lots of additional stuff. So when the 3 dudes started amassing MIH, it was obvious that they didn't have a lot to work with even though they went through the archives back to 1980. They wouldn't have used one-minute long snippets like It's A Beautiful Day and Let Me Live or the Freddie solo tracks for the album if they had had more actual, proper songs in the archives. The material was thin already for that album.
I don't believe for a second that after they worked 2 years on MIH and went through the old recordings both physically and mentally, they've now all of a sudden 18 years later found a wealth of unheard Freddie recordings; at least 8-10 real songs (not demos) which not only have complete and final vocal takes from Freddie, but also are good enough to compare with previous Queen albums and to form a core for a new album. It's just not going to happen.
But the bottom line is this: a 'new album' shouldn't be released even if there was enough material for one (and there isn't). Fans are so eager to hear the man's voice again that they don't realize that there are no artistic grounds for an album: a disjointed collection of random songs from different eras and years wouldn't be an actual album and it isn't called for by any kind of last will of Freddie or needed so long after Queen's end. It would be put out only for commercial purposes and to satisfy the egos of Brian and Roger. And most importantly Made In Heaven worked so perfectly as Queen's farewell and end that it shouldn't be followed up by anything. It should remain as the last Queen album.
Now, this doesn't mean that any worthy material shouldn't be released at all, but it means that it shouldn't be presented as "A NEW STUDIO ALBUM". It should simply be part of the Queen rarities anthology that should have been released a long time ago. If they soon release some stupid "Queen Forever" album with the Michael Jackson tracks plus maybe some Works outtake and Freddie solo reworkings, I won't buy it or ever listen to it once. But if they'll finally release the anthology with some interesting unheard things in it, I might actually look into it.
We know that Mother Love and A Winter's Tale were recorded post Innuendo, and if there's anything else that is up to scratch, then I expect Freddie would have wanted it to have also seen the light of day.
Ultimately I guess only when we hear next year's release will we know whether this was a barrel scraping exercise or much more than that. But based on Made In Heaven, I think most people would say there is reason to be hopeful that the bottom has not yet been reached at this point.
But ultimately, the proof is in the pudding, and that is expected to be out at some point in 2014, based on the latest info from Roger that I've seen in the interview he did for the Toronto Sun in mid-December.
[/QUOTE]Freddie intended his last songs to be released but that doesn't automatically mean that he wanted everything he ever did released, including bare ideas like 'Gazelle', or that he wanted every old discarded demo worked up by Brian and Roger as 'new' Queen songs. To me it seems more like B & R have been lately using Freddie's "last will" as an excuse to do anything to everything they can get their hands onto.
The situation with the material is this: Queen were never very prolific artists. Throughout the 80s they wrote only 9-10 songs for an album although all four of them were capable songwriters. You were lucky if you got one extra song as a B-side. For AKOM, I don't think there was any additional song done - and there is still filler on the album even though there's only 9 songs on it! So it wasn't quite the same situation as with for example Bruce Springsteen who used to record 40 songs in his sessions and then picked the tip of the iceberg for the album.
Sadly, I think Freddie even confessed in a Miracle-era radio interview that their working method wasn't as laborious: when they had enough songs for an album they recorded them and that was it; they didn't have interest to make lots of additional stuff. So when the 3 dudes started amassing MIH, it was obvious that they didn't have a lot to work with even though they went through the archives back to 1980. They wouldn't have used one-minute long snippets like It's A Beautiful Day and Let Me Live or the Freddie solo tracks for the album if they had had more actual, proper songs in the archives. The material was thin already for that album.
I don't believe for a second that after they worked 2 years on MIH and went through the old recordings both physically and mentally, they've now all of a sudden 18 years later found a wealth of unheard Freddie recordings; at least 8-10 real songs (not demos) which not only have complete and final vocal takes from Freddie, but also are good enough to compare with previous Queen albums and to form a core for a new album. It's just not going to happen.
But the bottom line is this: a 'new album' shouldn't be released even if there was enough material for one (and there isn't). Fans are so eager to hear the man's voice again that they don't realize that there are no artistic grounds for an album: a disjointed collection of random songs from different eras and years wouldn't be an actual album and it isn't called for by any kind of last will of Freddie or needed so long after Queen's end. It would be put out only for commercial purposes and to satisfy the egos of Brian and Roger. And most importantly Made In Heaven worked so perfectly as Queen's farewell and end that it shouldn't be followed up by anything. It should remain as the last Queen album.
Now, this doesn't mean that any worthy material shouldn't be released at all, but it means that it shouldn't be presented as "A NEW STUDIO ALBUM". It should simply be part of the Queen rarities anthology that should have been released a long time ago. If they soon release some stupid "Queen Forever" album with the Michael Jackson tracks plus maybe some Works outtake and Freddie solo reworkings, I won't buy it or ever listen to it once. But if they'll finally release the anthology with some interesting unheard things in it, I might actually look into it.
MercurialFreddie
If you would listen closely to interviews from 1984 and if you've seen the recent The Great Pretender documentary then you'd know that composing process varied depending from the album which they have been working on and the state of band's inner relations. Roger himself upon hearing Freddie's idea of a solo album suggested to use unused tracks from The Works sessions. As we know today, three songs from Mr Bad Guy album were originally Queen ideas and "Queen versions" of them (demos, takes) do exist in the Queen archives.
I'd advise you not to regard what Brian and Roger say about their own archives as credible information. They're focused on the present (controversial collaborations, making new music etc.). One of them (strictly Brian) doesn't have recollection of It's a Hard life being played live - this will give you some insight on how often they visit their own archives (live recorded material) or attend to meetings with their own archivist. Only Greg Brooks, Gary Taylor and JSS from time to time have kindly presented on this forum information regarding band's archive but sadly many discussions were ended abruptly because of fan's reactions.
If you'd ask me there's enough material left from Queen's recorded sessions (1972-1991) for more than one album.
Ps. Consider this - Made in Heaven was and is a concept album. Not every song fitted in thematically so we cannot know how much has been left off from the Innuendo and post-Innuendo sessions (apart from Face it Alone and Freedom Train).
I'd advise you not to regard what Brian and Roger say about their own archives as credible information. They're focused on the present (controversial collaborations, making new music etc.). One of them (strictly Brian) doesn't have recollection of It's a Hard life being played live - this will give you some insight on how often they visit their own archives (live recorded material) or attend to meetings with their own archivist. Only Greg Brooks, Gary Taylor and JSS from time to time have kindly presented on this forum information regarding band's archive but sadly many discussions were ended abruptly because of fan's reactions.
If you'd ask me there's enough material left from Queen's recorded sessions (1972-1991) for more than one album.
Ps. Consider this - Made in Heaven was and is a concept album. Not every song fitted in thematically so we cannot know how much has been left off from the Innuendo and post-Innuendo sessions (apart from Face it Alone and Freedom Train).
aion
As a general rule they only ever created in sessions for any album as many songs as was absolutely needed to release that album. They may have had some more songs very early in the process - call them demos, ideas, embryos or whatever - but they then chose which ideas would be developed into finished songs and those became the album; nothing else was developed further.
This was their working method and I'm sure any Queen fan (especially hardcore informants like Sebastian) knows this.
It means that there are no completed songs in the archive, no completed lyrics, no completed Freddie vocal takes. Everything in there that doesn't appear on Queen albums is those demos from the early process which were decided not to develop further.
I wouldn't go as far as to call them lazy but they certainly had a 'minimalist' working policy, in that they didn't have interest to make anything extra.
This is the reason why Queen archives are so empty despite a 20-year recording career, and also why their B-sides were always very poor (I mean if you bought the Works singles you actually bought the whole album twice, and with AKOM they even started to put their old A-sides onto B-sides - they had to do that simply because they had nothing else to put there).
The minimalist working policy also resulted in patchy albums because in the end they couldn't choose the best songs to make the album - they either put everything they had onto the album or there wasn't an album.
I'm sure every Queen fan wishes they'd have recorded (fully finished) some 30 songs in the sessions for The Works, maybe 15 songs in A Kind Of Magic sessions, 35 in The Miracle sessions and so on... but that simply wasn't how they worked.
[QUOTE] [b]MercurialFreddie wrote:[/b]If you'd ask me there's enough material left from Queen's recorded sessions (1972-1991) for more than one album.[/QUOTE]
It is absolutely impossible to compile a normal album from the Queen archives. Not only are there not songs, but even if there were, it would sound too unnatural to have Freddie's vocals from 1973 next to his vocals from 1984 and then 1991 - his voice changed so much during a 20-year career.
And like I explained, an unnatural "fake" studio album shouldn't be forced out of the Queen archive anyway, I truly wish that people would understand the idiocy of such a project.
[QUOTE] [b]MercurialFreddie wrote:[/b]Ps. Consider this - Made in Heaven was and is a concept album. Not every song fitted in thematically so we cannot know how much has been left off from the Innuendo and post-Innuendo sessions (apart from Face it Alone and Freedom Train).[/QUOTE]
There is nothing. There especially is no finished Freddie vocal takes of those two songs, as they would have been a perfect fit on MIH (much more than for example You Don't Fool Me and IWBTLY) and would have definitely been included on the album if they had existed.
This was their working method and I'm sure any Queen fan (especially hardcore informants like Sebastian) knows this.
It means that there are no completed songs in the archive, no completed lyrics, no completed Freddie vocal takes. Everything in there that doesn't appear on Queen albums is those demos from the early process which were decided not to develop further.
I wouldn't go as far as to call them lazy but they certainly had a 'minimalist' working policy, in that they didn't have interest to make anything extra.
This is the reason why Queen archives are so empty despite a 20-year recording career, and also why their B-sides were always very poor (I mean if you bought the Works singles you actually bought the whole album twice, and with AKOM they even started to put their old A-sides onto B-sides - they had to do that simply because they had nothing else to put there).
The minimalist working policy also resulted in patchy albums because in the end they couldn't choose the best songs to make the album - they either put everything they had onto the album or there wasn't an album.
I'm sure every Queen fan wishes they'd have recorded (fully finished) some 30 songs in the sessions for The Works, maybe 15 songs in A Kind Of Magic sessions, 35 in The Miracle sessions and so on... but that simply wasn't how they worked.
[QUOTE] [b]MercurialFreddie wrote:[/b]If you'd ask me there's enough material left from Queen's recorded sessions (1972-1991) for more than one album.[/QUOTE]
It is absolutely impossible to compile a normal album from the Queen archives. Not only are there not songs, but even if there were, it would sound too unnatural to have Freddie's vocals from 1973 next to his vocals from 1984 and then 1991 - his voice changed so much during a 20-year career.
And like I explained, an unnatural "fake" studio album shouldn't be forced out of the Queen archive anyway, I truly wish that people would understand the idiocy of such a project.
[QUOTE] [b]MercurialFreddie wrote:[/b]Ps. Consider this - Made in Heaven was and is a concept album. Not every song fitted in thematically so we cannot know how much has been left off from the Innuendo and post-Innuendo sessions (apart from Face it Alone and Freedom Train).[/QUOTE]
There is nothing. There especially is no finished Freddie vocal takes of those two songs, as they would have been a perfect fit on MIH (much more than for example You Don't Fool Me and IWBTLY) and would have definitely been included on the album if they had existed.
Sebastian
I fully agree. The only song which has documented to be completely done but taken out at the last minute was TMLWKY, and that was due to copyright issues, but still they managed to issue the exact same version on MIH (slightly re-mixed and re-mastered, but nothing had been re-recorded).
Wishful thinking is powerfully misleading. People out there imagine there's a version of 'Play the Game' with Andy Gibb sharing lead vocals even though it was *very clearly* stated in the OIQFC mag that he'd only sung backing vocals (and, for all we know, those could already be there on the version we all know).
Same for, say, Queen versions of half of Roger's first two solo albums, Queen versions of Brian's solo début, Queen versions of The Cross songs (other than HFE, which was, after all, a recreation).
What could exist, and that'd be quite interesting, would be working versions of the songs we already know, and 'solo' versions as well (what each band member recorded before showing the song to the rest). Things like 'Ga Ga' with the old lyrics and with Roger on vocals, or 'Friends Will Be Friends' with John on guitar, etc., but those would be even less commercially suitable for them, as the selling target would be overwhelmingly limited.
From a commercial perspective, they're more likely to just Queenise some solo things or the MJ duets, add a couple of re-worked versions and that's it.
Wishful thinking is powerfully misleading. People out there imagine there's a version of 'Play the Game' with Andy Gibb sharing lead vocals even though it was *very clearly* stated in the OIQFC mag that he'd only sung backing vocals (and, for all we know, those could already be there on the version we all know).
Same for, say, Queen versions of half of Roger's first two solo albums, Queen versions of Brian's solo début, Queen versions of The Cross songs (other than HFE, which was, after all, a recreation).
What could exist, and that'd be quite interesting, would be working versions of the songs we already know, and 'solo' versions as well (what each band member recorded before showing the song to the rest). Things like 'Ga Ga' with the old lyrics and with Roger on vocals, or 'Friends Will Be Friends' with John on guitar, etc., but those would be even less commercially suitable for them, as the selling target would be overwhelmingly limited.
From a commercial perspective, they're more likely to just Queenise some solo things or the MJ duets, add a couple of re-worked versions and that's it.
Heavenite
I agree with that last comment of Sebastian's re what is likely to be included on the next album. Although one would hope that they can come up with one or two more tracks that we haven't heard yet in some form. I mean don't forget Roger said in his recent interview with the Toronto Sun that they are working on proper tracks and not just demos. Although to the public at large, solo stuff would be considered new material, so that might account for this remark.
From what I've read on here Let Me Live was developed from a Freddie solo demo, and while Gazelle really wouldn't be up to par (as aion says), somethiing like New York would certainly be IMO, if there were two additional verses featuring Brian and Roger added to it. So I don't think they would really need all that much material of a good quality to make something special one more time.
It's speculation, although Brian and Roger (and John) have already showed a willingness and an ability to make those sorts of decisions and put out material that was accepted positively by most fans and the public at large. So seeing a few more of those sorts of decisions made is not too long a bow, I don't think.
Beyond that, Brian has said that at the end Freddie asked the others to write lines and he would sing everything and anything. Maybe that included earlier demos and half written songs too. Who knows? So the possiblity of other material possibly existing is not completely without basis. Although having said that, there has been no evidence 22 years after Freddie's death to suggest that anything came of this.
Just one point I would like to make about the criticising of Brian and Roger in all this, it should be remembered that in 22 years they have only released one posthumous album, which was extremely well received. So until we hear what they have to offer next year, I don't think it's reasonable to be too negative about their management of Freddie's musical legacy, at least in relation to recorded material. Other things, like QE and working with PR and AL, are a different issue as far as I'm concerned.
And if next year's output is of an acceptable or better quality, then I would say that they have actually shown considerable restraint in not releasing this material sooner. The main reason I can think of being that they wanted to maximise the impact of any remaining material that exists. And just before the release of the Freddie Mercury movie seems about as opportune time as any I would think.
From what I've read on here Let Me Live was developed from a Freddie solo demo, and while Gazelle really wouldn't be up to par (as aion says), somethiing like New York would certainly be IMO, if there were two additional verses featuring Brian and Roger added to it. So I don't think they would really need all that much material of a good quality to make something special one more time.
It's speculation, although Brian and Roger (and John) have already showed a willingness and an ability to make those sorts of decisions and put out material that was accepted positively by most fans and the public at large. So seeing a few more of those sorts of decisions made is not too long a bow, I don't think.
Beyond that, Brian has said that at the end Freddie asked the others to write lines and he would sing everything and anything. Maybe that included earlier demos and half written songs too. Who knows? So the possiblity of other material possibly existing is not completely without basis. Although having said that, there has been no evidence 22 years after Freddie's death to suggest that anything came of this.
Just one point I would like to make about the criticising of Brian and Roger in all this, it should be remembered that in 22 years they have only released one posthumous album, which was extremely well received. So until we hear what they have to offer next year, I don't think it's reasonable to be too negative about their management of Freddie's musical legacy, at least in relation to recorded material. Other things, like QE and working with PR and AL, are a different issue as far as I'm concerned.
And if next year's output is of an acceptable or better quality, then I would say that they have actually shown considerable restraint in not releasing this material sooner. The main reason I can think of being that they wanted to maximise the impact of any remaining material that exists. And just before the release of the Freddie Mercury movie seems about as opportune time as any I would think.
Jarjon76
After going through this thread, I feel like I need to add my two cents.
1) While I don't believe there is anything, at least of real substance, from the post Innuendo sessions I am open to the possibility that something does exist. The real question for me is is it worthy of releasing in proper album form?
Let's assume there are let's say 3 or 4 Freddie vocal tracks that have been "found". Are these snippets of Freddie singing ideas that never came to fruition, or are they more in the vein of A Winter's Tale? If the former, would even Roger and Brian adding their bits to these snippets make these tracks complete? I'm not interested in a batch of You Don't Fool Mes, if you know what I mean.
I'm all for the band (and record company) releasing whatever is left in the vaults, but must it be in proper album form? Why not add them on the re-remasters that came out a couple of years ago? Why not finally release a box set of demo/rarities/unfinished ideas/etc. and sell it as the finality of everything they have concerning Freddie? To me, this "new" album smells of PR and nothing more. I understand it's ideal to have "new" "found" Freddie music to accompany your upcoming movie, but I suspect they are to quote Roger, "scrapping the bottom of the barrel" here.
Made in Heaven featured mostly re-hash that the Brian, John, and Roger put their fingerprints on. Granted, I like that album a lot, but I don't think see this upcoming album being anything but a cheap ploy to sell fans "new Freddie material". I hope I'm wrong.
2) Concerning the topic of this thread, I believe Freddie recorded his last vocals in May 1991. JSS was nice enough to provide us with detailed information on those sessions and all signs point to Mother Love being Freddie's last vocal recording. Yes, it's possible he could have went into the studio after that and recorded more vocals, but considering he wasn't able to finish ML and his state of health the last six months of his life I don't believe he was able to sing, at least to his standards, after May 1991. Otherwise, I would think his priority would have to be finish his vocals on ML.
It's a nice story to think he was recording to the end, but realistically I don't believe he was physically nor mentally able to do so. AIDS, especially at that time, is a very debilitating disease. I consider it somewhat of a miracle (no pun intended) that he was able to sing and do a video shoot in May 1991. The man literally gave it his all for as long as he could. It's part of the reason we're such big fans, even in death.
3) As far as fans living in the past, as one poster suggested, I would disagree that the majority of the fanbase is like this. I think it's more of a case of the majority of us wanting to hear any Freddie vocals left in the vaults, if in fact there is anything worthwhile hearing. We all know Freddie is long gone and he's not coming back. We know he's not going to suddenly appear on TMZ with Elvis and Andy Kaufman telling the story on how they've been secretly alive all these years and were waiting for the right moment to reappear. I think the excitement stems from the possibility we're going to hear new Freddie material when we thought the 1991 post Innuendo sessions were the finality.
Sorry for the novel like post, but I wanted to chime in on this very fascinating topic.
1) While I don't believe there is anything, at least of real substance, from the post Innuendo sessions I am open to the possibility that something does exist. The real question for me is is it worthy of releasing in proper album form?
Let's assume there are let's say 3 or 4 Freddie vocal tracks that have been "found". Are these snippets of Freddie singing ideas that never came to fruition, or are they more in the vein of A Winter's Tale? If the former, would even Roger and Brian adding their bits to these snippets make these tracks complete? I'm not interested in a batch of You Don't Fool Mes, if you know what I mean.
I'm all for the band (and record company) releasing whatever is left in the vaults, but must it be in proper album form? Why not add them on the re-remasters that came out a couple of years ago? Why not finally release a box set of demo/rarities/unfinished ideas/etc. and sell it as the finality of everything they have concerning Freddie? To me, this "new" album smells of PR and nothing more. I understand it's ideal to have "new" "found" Freddie music to accompany your upcoming movie, but I suspect they are to quote Roger, "scrapping the bottom of the barrel" here.
Made in Heaven featured mostly re-hash that the Brian, John, and Roger put their fingerprints on. Granted, I like that album a lot, but I don't think see this upcoming album being anything but a cheap ploy to sell fans "new Freddie material". I hope I'm wrong.
2) Concerning the topic of this thread, I believe Freddie recorded his last vocals in May 1991. JSS was nice enough to provide us with detailed information on those sessions and all signs point to Mother Love being Freddie's last vocal recording. Yes, it's possible he could have went into the studio after that and recorded more vocals, but considering he wasn't able to finish ML and his state of health the last six months of his life I don't believe he was able to sing, at least to his standards, after May 1991. Otherwise, I would think his priority would have to be finish his vocals on ML.
It's a nice story to think he was recording to the end, but realistically I don't believe he was physically nor mentally able to do so. AIDS, especially at that time, is a very debilitating disease. I consider it somewhat of a miracle (no pun intended) that he was able to sing and do a video shoot in May 1991. The man literally gave it his all for as long as he could. It's part of the reason we're such big fans, even in death.
3) As far as fans living in the past, as one poster suggested, I would disagree that the majority of the fanbase is like this. I think it's more of a case of the majority of us wanting to hear any Freddie vocals left in the vaults, if in fact there is anything worthwhile hearing. We all know Freddie is long gone and he's not coming back. We know he's not going to suddenly appear on TMZ with Elvis and Andy Kaufman telling the story on how they've been secretly alive all these years and were waiting for the right moment to reappear. I think the excitement stems from the possibility we're going to hear new Freddie material when we thought the 1991 post Innuendo sessions were the finality.
Sorry for the novel like post, but I wanted to chime in on this very fascinating topic.
Heavenite
Nice post Jarjon! As have been just about all the others in this thread IMO, including the recent ones from aion, Sebastian and Mercurial Freddie. I think it will be interesting to revisit this thread once the forthcoming Queen album is released and see what material does finish up being included on the new album, and to what extent quality has been maintained and whether another fully fledged Queen album release was warranted on anything other than commercial grounds.
aion
For the love of God I do not understand this obsession about posthumous studio albums. I'm completely against that idea and will say my final word on the subject.
First of all you would need all of this to have any kind of credible Queen studio album released:
- at least 8-10 completed Freddie vocal takes of songs that have never been released anywhere
- those songs/vocal tracks should be not only complete, but also as GOOD as Queen albums usually were. There must be 4-5 songs so strong as to be singles and stand proudly in line with all previous Queen singles
- all of Freddie's vocals should come from roughly the same time period in order to have natural "continuity"... you couldn't have on the same album his vocals from 1974 and 1990, it just wouldn't work.
This is impossible.
In addition to that there should be an artistic REASON for an album so long after the singer's death, and not just a commercial selling point like a movie coming out.
Can't you see that Made In Heaven itself was already barrel scraping? They didn't have even nearly enough post-Innuendo material to make an album so they padded the late songs with a short demo from 1980, a snippet from 1983, a B-side, and various reworkings of solo stuff. It worked out extremely well considering the lack of material and they were lucky to come out with a cohesive album, but the album was made for an established reason and the well became dry, and they should not attempt anything similar again.
People here have suggested that they rework 'New York' or some other Freddie's solo stuff. Are your standards really that low that you want to have songs that you already own re-released as Queen songs? If you accept anything they might as well remake the whole Mr. Bad Guy album and release it as an album called Mr. Queen Guy! Ridiculous.
Even if there were 20 completed and unreleased songs from The Miracle sessions, I would not want them to be packaged as a studio album because it's just not normal that studio albums keep coming from a musician who died a long time ago. Look at Bruce Springsteen. In 1998 he released a box set called Tracks which had some 50 unreleased songs he had recorded in previous years. He didn't in 1998 release a studio album that consisted of songs he had done 20 years earlier - which would have been stupid - but he put them all out as an archive anthology. Lucky for his fans and you wish the same thing was possible with Queen.
There is a difference between a studio album and an anthology of archive material. A proper album needs to be up to standards and cohesive, natural; but for a rarities anthology you open up the vaults and release all the interesting unreleased things you have in a chronological order. It's for hardcore fans and for historical purposes.
If they release an "album" I will disown it just as much as Cosmos Sucks and won't ever listen to or look at it; but on the other hand the rarities anthology is a thing that for Queen should have been released some 10-15 years ago and is the only Queen release there stills needs to be done.
[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]
What could exist, and that'd be quite interesting, would be working versions of the songs we already know, and 'solo' versions as well (what each band member recorded before showing the song to the rest). Things like 'Ga Ga' with the old lyrics and with Roger on vocals, or 'Friends Will Be Friends' with John on guitar, etc., but those would be even less commercially suitable for them, as the selling target would be overwhelmingly limited.[/QUOTE]
That is the natural stuff to include in a rarities anthology... I would be interested in listening to some things like that as well as the best version of Face It Alone there is, but I guess it will never happen. Rant is over.
First of all you would need all of this to have any kind of credible Queen studio album released:
- at least 8-10 completed Freddie vocal takes of songs that have never been released anywhere
- those songs/vocal tracks should be not only complete, but also as GOOD as Queen albums usually were. There must be 4-5 songs so strong as to be singles and stand proudly in line with all previous Queen singles
- all of Freddie's vocals should come from roughly the same time period in order to have natural "continuity"... you couldn't have on the same album his vocals from 1974 and 1990, it just wouldn't work.
This is impossible.
In addition to that there should be an artistic REASON for an album so long after the singer's death, and not just a commercial selling point like a movie coming out.
Can't you see that Made In Heaven itself was already barrel scraping? They didn't have even nearly enough post-Innuendo material to make an album so they padded the late songs with a short demo from 1980, a snippet from 1983, a B-side, and various reworkings of solo stuff. It worked out extremely well considering the lack of material and they were lucky to come out with a cohesive album, but the album was made for an established reason and the well became dry, and they should not attempt anything similar again.
People here have suggested that they rework 'New York' or some other Freddie's solo stuff. Are your standards really that low that you want to have songs that you already own re-released as Queen songs? If you accept anything they might as well remake the whole Mr. Bad Guy album and release it as an album called Mr. Queen Guy! Ridiculous.
Even if there were 20 completed and unreleased songs from The Miracle sessions, I would not want them to be packaged as a studio album because it's just not normal that studio albums keep coming from a musician who died a long time ago. Look at Bruce Springsteen. In 1998 he released a box set called Tracks which had some 50 unreleased songs he had recorded in previous years. He didn't in 1998 release a studio album that consisted of songs he had done 20 years earlier - which would have been stupid - but he put them all out as an archive anthology. Lucky for his fans and you wish the same thing was possible with Queen.
There is a difference between a studio album and an anthology of archive material. A proper album needs to be up to standards and cohesive, natural; but for a rarities anthology you open up the vaults and release all the interesting unreleased things you have in a chronological order. It's for hardcore fans and for historical purposes.
If they release an "album" I will disown it just as much as Cosmos Sucks and won't ever listen to or look at it; but on the other hand the rarities anthology is a thing that for Queen should have been released some 10-15 years ago and is the only Queen release there stills needs to be done.
[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]
What could exist, and that'd be quite interesting, would be working versions of the songs we already know, and 'solo' versions as well (what each band member recorded before showing the song to the rest). Things like 'Ga Ga' with the old lyrics and with Roger on vocals, or 'Friends Will Be Friends' with John on guitar, etc., but those would be even less commercially suitable for them, as the selling target would be overwhelmingly limited.[/QUOTE]
That is the natural stuff to include in a rarities anthology... I would be interested in listening to some things like that as well as the best version of Face It Alone there is, but I guess it will never happen. Rant is over.
Heavenite
Wow! That IS a rant aion!....lol!
And all your points are reasonable from the purist perspective. But to what extent should we compromise when the artist is dead? That's a fair question and one that is individual for each person, as individual taste always is of course.
Your requirements are stringent, but fair enough because they are yours! But for me. if Brian and Roger can come up with an album that I thoroughly enjoy, well, I won't be too worried about how they did it. It's the quality of the end product that will probably have a lot to do with that I think, and you make that point with some of your specs. But some are more to do with the album coming from a bona fide creative process, and I guess I'm a lot less concerned about those, especially given circumstances. And if its a commerical success, I would definitely be happy about that too, provided the I enjoy the music, presumably because the quality is there. .
For me, those are the differences between between MIH and TCR. The first one had aspects of barrel scraping about it, no doubt about it. Yet it had some great tracks, sung and played beautifully, even if they weren't original. They also ran beautifully together, as if they had been constructed as one unified piece.
TCR, on the other hand, was made up of original tracks and was therefore the result of a creative process between Roger,Brian and Paul Rodgers. Yet I would rather say it was made by a different band called QPR, for all the resemblance it had to a Queen,album.
So I will be definitely giving MIH2, or whatever its called, a go when it comes out. Hopefully the quality and enjoyment will be there and I won't regret them releasing it as you already seem to. As I do agree that what has been put out up to now leaves Queen perfectly and with a very good taste in the mouth. To spoil that now with something substandard would be tragic! Surely Brian and Roger know that and wouldn't do it with Freddie's recording legacy And that's regardless of what they do with the songs live with AL and the like.
And all your points are reasonable from the purist perspective. But to what extent should we compromise when the artist is dead? That's a fair question and one that is individual for each person, as individual taste always is of course.
Your requirements are stringent, but fair enough because they are yours! But for me. if Brian and Roger can come up with an album that I thoroughly enjoy, well, I won't be too worried about how they did it. It's the quality of the end product that will probably have a lot to do with that I think, and you make that point with some of your specs. But some are more to do with the album coming from a bona fide creative process, and I guess I'm a lot less concerned about those, especially given circumstances. And if its a commerical success, I would definitely be happy about that too, provided the I enjoy the music, presumably because the quality is there. .
For me, those are the differences between between MIH and TCR. The first one had aspects of barrel scraping about it, no doubt about it. Yet it had some great tracks, sung and played beautifully, even if they weren't original. They also ran beautifully together, as if they had been constructed as one unified piece.
TCR, on the other hand, was made up of original tracks and was therefore the result of a creative process between Roger,Brian and Paul Rodgers. Yet I would rather say it was made by a different band called QPR, for all the resemblance it had to a Queen,album.
So I will be definitely giving MIH2, or whatever its called, a go when it comes out. Hopefully the quality and enjoyment will be there and I won't regret them releasing it as you already seem to. As I do agree that what has been put out up to now leaves Queen perfectly and with a very good taste in the mouth. To spoil that now with something substandard would be tragic! Surely Brian and Roger know that and wouldn't do it with Freddie's recording legacy And that's regardless of what they do with the songs live with AL and the like.