'Made in Heaven' timeline

Justin confirmed there were vocals by Brian on the 1991 sessions, as so does the Dr at the Exhibit in Switzerland (he's on screen talking about the song when you go to the control room to mix its stems). Brian's not Dr Memory but he probably spoke at a time they were revisiting the multi's, so he most likely had a good idea of what happened thanks to the tracksheets, which, according to Justin, included a track of 'Brian vocal' (or something to that effect).

Now, whether that's the same one that's on the finished version or if it was replaced in the 1993-1995 era, that's a different matter, and I've absolutely no idea.

Brian Vocal can also mean demo vocal? Maybe he did the whole song and demo sang on it? Then Freddie stared to do it and couldn't finish it. It doesn't make sense that Brian would have sang the final version of the final verse BEFORE Freddie died....?

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

Now, whether that's the same one that's on the finished version or if it was replaced in the 1993-1995 era, that's a different matter, and I've absolutely no idea.[/QUOTE]

I'd say it was a guide vocal for Mercury to get the idea of what he wanted.

I can't see why Brian's final vocal would be from 1991. They weren't focused on finishing songs - they were keen on getting as many ideas onto tape as possible. Knowing Brian's sense of perfectionism, he likely wouldn't have spent the time doing take after take of a vocal when he could be tending to other things, like creating something else for Mercury to sing on.

^ my $0.02..

[QUOTE] [b]ploughman wrote:[/b]

Brian Vocal can also mean demo vocal?[/QUOTE]

It means a vocal sung by Brian. It could be a demo, an alternative verse, an alternative melody, a later discarded backing vocal, a guide vocal, a duet idea, etc.

[QUOTE] [b]ploughman wrote:[/b]

Maybe he did the whole song and demo sang on it?[/QUOTE]

Considering it's a collaboration, it'd make sense that each of them threw ideas around. Freddie wrote, judging by the manuscript, the first verse and then the 'lonely lane' line (but it seems that he wanted it for another verse), the rest of the lyrics were Brian's, so maybe the Doctor wanted to show Fred how he imagined the other bits could go.

[QUOTE] [b]ploughman wrote:[/b]

It doesn't make sense that Brian would have sang the final version of the final verse BEFORE Freddie died....?[/QUOTE]

Why not? A lot of times musicians just do takes. Each take becomes a 'demo', an 'outtake' or part of the 'comp' as time progresses. If a first take is good enough, then it gets promoted from 'demo' to 'final version'. Ever heard 'Sleeping on the Sidewalk'? Sometimes things are just right on the first take, precisely because the pressure is off and the moment is captured better.

I'm not saying by any means that it's a guaranteed 100% fact that the final verse was recorded in '91. I'm just entertaining the possibility that it could have been so. Justin, should he ever be nice enough to share info on the multi-track contents again, could clear it up once and for all, but right now all we can have is theories. IMO, the possibility of that last verse having been recorded in '91 is just as strong as it having been recorded later.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

I'd say it was a guide vocal for Mercury to get the idea of what he wanted.[/QUOTE]

We can't ever know until/unless the contents of those takes are ever revealed. Meanwhile, it's all about throwing hypotheses around. Yes, I agree with what you say and I think that's by far the most logical option, BUT that doesn't guarantee AT ALL that it's not the final version *as well*. You're a musician: haven't you ever kept a first take of anything because you realised that was it?

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

I can't see why Brian's final vocal would be from 1991.[/QUOTE]

Brian's an excellent singer, he could've gotten it right the first time. I can't see why you can't see it. Whether that's what actually happened or not is mere speculation at this point, but whether that's possible is very much crystal clear in my book. I'm not talking about Freddie playing drums or Roger trying out a trumpet solo, I'm talking about a professional musician who, by 1991, had literally more than two decades of experience recording loads of backing vocals and also several lead ones, and guide ones, and who could've easily gotten it right back then; he could've also just as easily replaced it later on.

Facts are:

* Brian recorded vocals for 'Mother Love' in 1991.
* The 1995 release has Brian singing the last verse.

Does it mean the 1995 release has 1991 Brian singing the last verse? Maybe. Not necessarily. But the possibility that it does is just as strong as the possibility that it doesn't.

People think of demos as LQ sloppy takes full of noise and sounding as if they were recorded through a telephone line, when in reality a lot of demos have the same sound quality as the final versions, and sometimes even better because they haven't been tampered with in terms of excessive compression and whatnot.

Similarly, people think of guide vocals as sloppy takes full of stammering and where the singer gives five percent at best. Well, truth is, more often than not, guide vocals are sung with the same professionalism and under the same conditions as the 'final' ones. Again, a very common approach is that several takes are made and then the producer chooses which one is the 'final'. That one gets cleaned up and EQ'd and then mixed with the rest.

There's nothing to suggest the last verse is definitely from 1991, just like there's nothing to suggest that it's not.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

Knowing Brian's sense of perfectionism, he likely wouldn't have spent the time doing take after take of a vocal when he could be tending to other things, like creating something else for Mercury to sing on.
[/QUOTE]

Brian's sense of perfectionism didn't mean doing 'take after take'. As he' s said more than once, it was about capturing a moment. He didn't mind the few bass mistakes John made on the first take of 'Sleeping on the Sidewalk', as he felt that the chemistry was better than on all the (probably more technically proficient) attempts they tried later on, but on which life'd been sucked out.

Precisely one of the great things about Brian is that he wasn't into sheer technical perfection. Perfection and sloppiness aren't the two only options. Life's not black and white, and it's not a greyscale either. There are millions of colours, and not being able to see the IR or the UV doesn't mean they don't exist.

Queen recordings have several imperfections, but that doesn't ruin them at all. What they all did (not just Brian), was striving for excellence (not the same as perfection), which was reflected both on the technical side (playing the instruments well, hitting the right notes, pronouncing words correctly) and the aesthetic side (emotion, projection, performance).

There's no set difference between Take 1 and Take 200. Either one of them could be 'it'.

I'm not saying ML last verse definitely comes from 1991. I'm saying it could.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

You're a musician: haven't you ever kept a first take of anything because you realised that was it?[/QUOTE]

Yup, fair play.

Excellent post overall. A ton of great points. This is just so eloquent:

[QUOTE]Queen recordings have several imperfections, but that doesn't ruin them at all. What they all did (not just Brian), was striving for excellence (not the same as perfection), which was reflected both on the technical side (playing the instruments well, hitting the right notes, pronouncing words correctly) and the aesthetic side (emotion, projection, performance).
[/QUOTE]

Fantastic post, Sebastian and all. We need more of those to counter attack the trolls. :D

Cheers,

Ogre-

[QUOTE] [b]Wilki Amieva wrote:[/b]

Good work, Sebastian. We should add some more on the Track 13, hehe.

About the Too Much Love Will Kill You "demo": That excerpt comes from a 13-track preview cassette sent in late 1988 to executives at Capitol Records, which were quite inquisitive about Queen's next project. At that point, The Miracle didn't have a defined title nor a defined tracklist. This sampler tape contained just excerpts (between 1:00 and 2:00 in lenght) of work-in-progress versions, five of which are circulating amongst fans and collectors at least since 1994 (The Miracle, I Want It All, The Invisible Man, Scandal and Too Much Love Will Kill You).

Then in early 1989, Queen sent to Capitol Records a new 11-track cassette with full-lenght rough mixes of the proposed The Miracle tracklisting. It contained a full version of Too Much Love Will Kill You, between I Want It All and The Invisible Man (see picture). That version, bar a minor remastering, is the same as the one presented in Made In Heaven.

But hear it yourself:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ahe4jcellyqddqo/05.%20Too%20Much%20Love%20Will%20Kill%20You%20%28rough%20mix%29.zip

Happy Xmas![/QUOTE]

Thanks so much Wilki. I had a feeling that maybe the 2 minute demo I knew about wasn't all that there is.

Still, there are definite differences between this version and the one on MIH. Granted, they appear to be mixing (rather than mastering) differences, but the two are not identical.

Just curious, are these dates from the Studio Experience exhibit? If not, what's the source?

Great information and obviously dates are of great interest to me. :-)

[QUOTE] [b]rhyeking wrote:[/b]
If not, what's the source?[/QUOTE]

Loads of them.

If I ever cite the dates in the Chronology, I need to be able to independently verify them, that's why I ask. Some you list are new to me and I'd love to look them up.

Just another big 'THANK YOU' from here.

Outstanding post (and equally great replies).

Merry Christmas, everyone!

--Frank

[QUOTE] [b]rhyeking wrote:[/b]

If I ever cite the dates in the Chronology, I need to be able to independently verify them, that's why I ask. Some you list are new to me and I'd love to look them up.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. So:

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

2nd September 1983: There's a jam session between Queen and guest celebrities Jim Cregan, Carmine Appice, Rod Stewart and Jeff Beck. The result is a fragment of a song then titled A Little Piece of My Heart. Location: Record Plant in LA.

1988: ...John (who wrote the song) was absent in March, July, August, October and December, so we can rule out those months.

July 1988: During a break from the recording sessions, Brian co-writes and demoes Too Much Love Will Kill You in LA.

25th February 1994: End of the first 'batch' of recordings for the 'Made in Heaven' project. Up until this point, Brian's not involved at all. Roger and John take a break as the former devotes to his solo career and a planned album with Yoshiki (of which only two tracks have been released so far, one incorporated to Roger's album and the other as a bonus track).

March to June 1994: Brian joins the project, and coincidentally, John goes on holiday.

Summer 1994: Brian works on the posthumous album on his own, at his home studio. Roger and John not involved in those sessions. Engineer and co-producer: Justin Shirley-Smith.

Autumn 1994: The three of them go to Metropolis in London to work together, but they soon split up and John goes on holiday, Roger goes on a solo tour and Brian goes home to work by himself on the tapes, especially the songs Fred'd made on his solo album a decade earlier.

Winter 1994: The three of them work at Brian's studio.

Spring 1995: Separate sessions: Brian works from home, with Justin Shirley-Smith engineering and co-producing, Roger and John work at Roger's mill, with Josh Macrae engineering and co-producing.

Summer 1995: The three of them work together on tying the loose ends. Venue switches between Brian's home, Roger's home and Metropolis. David Richards makes the mixes at Metropolis.

Late September 1995: 'Made in Heaven' finished and mixed.[/QUOTE]

For all of those, sources are fan club magazines of the corresponding era. Usually each issue featured one of the band members writing a letter and informing the fans of their activities. Such letters were sometimes dated. For instance, Roger's letter from September 1995 announced they'd just finished mixing the album.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

Spring 1980: Freddie records It's a Beautiful Day at Musicland Studios in Munich. Engineered by Mack.
[/QUOTE]

Liner notes from the 2011 reissue of 'The Game' (which includes IABD as a bonus track), and GB solving the issue about a decade ago per Brian's request.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

Spring 1980: Piano used was a Yamaha C-7B.

[/QUOTE]

Source: Some of the studio publicity included a list of their instruments. Also, an ELO release from late 70s recorded at the same studio lists that piano model

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

2nd September 1983: ...Location: Record Plant in LA. Engineered by Mack and Andrew Bradfield.
[/QUOTE]

Those were part of The Works sessions. We know who engineered them thanks to the liner notes of the album.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

2nd September 1983: ...A Yamaha C7 piano is played (though not the same as the one Freddie played in Munich).
[/QUOTE]

A lot of studios usually published (and still do) their in-house equipment. Sources from the early 80s confirm there was a Yamaha at the Record Plant in LA.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

May 1984: Freddie records piano, synths and vocals for Made in Heaven and I Was Born to Love You.
[/QUOTE]

Fred's solo box includes dates.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

May 1984: Sessions produced by Freddie, co-produced and engineered by Mack, assistant engineer Stephan Wissnet.

[/QUOTE]

Credits from the Mr Bad Guy album.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

May 1984: Equipment: Yamaha C-7B piano, various synths (chiefly Oberheim OB-Xa and Roland Jupiter 8).

[/QUOTE]

Piano's the same as on The Game sessions, as they recorded at the same studios. Reportedly, Freddie used the same synths for his solo album as those he played on 'The Works', with the only addition of Mack's K-250. There are several photographs and equipment lists confirming all of those keyboards. The making of 'One Vision' (filmed at the same studios about a year after 'Mr bad Guy') shows the Yamaha piano and the following synths: K-250, DX-7, Jupiter-8, VP-330, CMI-II (or is it III?).

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

May 1987: The Cross record Heaven for Everyone at Mediterraneo Studios in Ibiza. Freddie pops in for a visit and asks them to let him sing it.
[/QUOTE]

Several sources including fan club magazines (they had a section called 'information', which was basically a 'what have they been up to?' gossip section on each band member) and an interview with Roger around the time the 'Barcelona' single was released imply their encounter
took place in Ibiza while Freddie was there promoting the duets. AFAIR, Jim's book also mentions that. 'Shove It' lists Mediterraneo as one of the studios they used. Put two and two together and you get that.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

1988: Queen record My Life Has Been Saved, with David Richards as co-producer, engineer and guest keyboardist (uncredited).
[/QUOTE]

Source: David, when interviewed around November 2001 by the author of the book 'Queen File', published in Japan (she was kind enough to send me her notes in English before she translated them).

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

January 1991: Preliminary work on You Don't Fool Me and A Winter's Tale at Mountain Studios in Montreux.
[/QUOTE]

The fan club and (IIRC) a letter from either Brian or Roger confirmed they'd been in the studios in January. David also confirmed it in the 2011 docu, and Jim also mentioned some of that on his book (also Phoebe IIRC). We know now, thanks to other sources, that YDFM comes from after 'Innuendo' but before 'Mother Love' (which was in May), and the only post-Innuendo pre-ML sessions they had were in January. Two plus two again.

As for AWT, evidence suggests it was started off in winter (hence the title).

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

10th May 1991: Freddie's vocal track on A Winter's Tale is compiled. He didn't record any other vocal for that song after that.

13th May 1991: Work begins on Mother Love: various vocal bits from Freddie and Brian, keyboards, guitar (Brian on the original BHM) and a drum-machine.

16th May 1991: More work on Mother Love: another keyboard, some more guitar, and John's bass.

22nd May 1991: Rough mix of Mother Love.

13th October 1993: Work on Mother Love recommences at Metropolis Studios in London.
[/QUOTE]

Source: Justin Shirley-Smith, here on this forum, a couple of weeks ago.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

13th October 1993: Brian's not involved (that day he was playing a solo concert in America)
[/QUOTE]

Source: QueenConcerts.

great thread, thanks!

[QUOTE] [b]Walter White wrote:[/b]

What happened to "YEAH"? When was that recorded? Where?



[/QUOTE]

Hi, I'm sure that "Yeah" is from "White Man".

Almost a year ago... good times!