1) Best ear for music (perfect/relative pitch)
[/QUOTE]
That one's IMO nearly impossible to know as we haven't got enough information and/or access to controlled experiments to put them against each other in that department (e.g., aural tests to see if they can hear a melody and accurately replicate it either vocally or instrumentally on first attempt).
[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]
2) More complex/original ability in composing
[/QUOTE]
They're both different areas, again, and again, there's no way to know for sure. Of course, there's Black Queen and Bo Rhap and Waltz and My Fairy King, etc., but Brian also could do things that Freddie couldn't, and probably John and Roger as well.
In terms of having more chords, modulations, more advanced compositional vocabulary, etc., then yes, Freddie wins. In terms of the craftsmanship of arrangements, all four had different styles and they were all valuable in their own way. Freddie probably wouldn't have been able to arrange '39 or Good Company just like Brian wouldn't have been able to arrange Bo Rhap (vocally) or Seaside Rendezvous.
[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]
3) Efficiency on musical instrument/s
[/QUOTE]
Indeed, it depends on whether you count the voice as an instrument. If so, then IMO Freddie was the most advanced. Otherwise, yeah, Brian. I think Brian's ability as a guitarist far surpasses Freddie's as a pianist... in fact, Brian's ability as a pianist and singer far surpasses Freddie's as a guitarist as well.
Now, if we're gonna count their overall ability on different instruments, then perhaps John Deacon was the most advanced one (vocals notwithstanding). He was really good on bass and he was also quite good on guitar (certainly better, IMO, than Brian was on piano or Roger/Freddie on guitar).
I read one of the replies saying that Rog was the only one who could record an album by himself ... well, yes and no... FIS has the late great David Richards playing half of the keyboards, SF has several cameos by Queen members and also some rhythm guitar by Rick Parfitt (and probably again David Richards on keys) and the rest of his albums (including Fun on Earth) have guest musicians.
Roger's ability on synths and piano, at least in the 80's, weren't too much greater than Brian's on bass or drum machines. If we rule out their main instrument, I think Brian's better on piano than Roger on guitar, and he's better on bass as well. The difference between Brian and John would've been that Brian could also sing both lead and harmonies, getting him closer to the whole idea of recording all by himself.
[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]
4) "The Harmonies Department" (Queen's trademark)
[/QUOTE]
Depends on what you mean... arranging harmonies, singing them or producing them? Those are three entirely different sets of skills again.
Arranging them - Again, Fred could do things Brian couldn't and vice-versa.
Singing them - Lord Frederick, Earl of Mercury, FTW, with Roger as second IMO. Range-wise, performance-wise, subtlety-wise, etc. Of course, they sounded at their best when they were together (e.g., STL), but all in all I think harmonies sounded better when they were all Freddie (e.g., 'Love of My Life') than when they were all Roger (e.g., 'Tenement Funster') or all Brian ('Leaving Home Ain't Easy'). 'All Dead, All Dead' is a great example of a song where Freddie 'only' sang BV's, but he made the most out of a supporting role and elevated the piece to a whole new level.
Producing them? I'd chose Freddie as well. He had a very nice way to mix them and get them to work. The others did too, of course, but not quite at the same level IMO.
[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]
5) Former training in music ( though this can be at odds with actual inherent musical talent)
[/QUOTE]
Both Freddie and Brian got to Grade IV on piano, and that's all the formal training any Queen member ever had.
Mike G · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]
1) Best ear for music (perfect/relative pitch)
[/QUOTE]
That one's IMO nearly impossible to know as we haven't got enough information and/or access to controlled experiments to put them against each other in that department (e.g., aural tests to see if they can hear a melody and accurately replicate it either vocally or instrumentally on first attempt).
[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]
2) More complex/original ability in composing
[/QUOTE]
They're both different areas, again, and again, there's no way to know for sure. Of course, there's Black Queen and Bo Rhap and Waltz and My Fairy King, etc., but Brian also could do things that Freddie couldn't, and probably John and Roger as well.
In terms of having more chords, modulations, more advanced compositional vocabulary, etc., then yes, Freddie wins. In terms of the craftsmanship of arrangements, all four had different styles and they were all valuable in their own way. Freddie probably wouldn't have been able to arrange '39 or Good Company just like Brian wouldn't have been able to arrange Bo Rhap (vocally) or Seaside Rendezvous.
[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]
3) Efficiency on musical instrument/s
[/QUOTE]
Indeed, it depends on whether you count the voice as an instrument. If so, then IMO Freddie was the most advanced. Otherwise, yeah, Brian. I think Brian's ability as a guitarist far surpasses Freddie's as a pianist... in fact, Brian's ability as a pianist and singer far surpasses Freddie's as a guitarist as well.
Now, if we're gonna count their overall ability on different instruments, then perhaps John Deacon was the most advanced one (vocals notwithstanding). He was really good on bass and he was also quite good on guitar (certainly better, IMO, than Brian was on piano or Roger/Freddie on guitar).
I read one of the replies saying that Rog was the only one who could record an album by himself ... well, yes and no... FIS has the late great David Richards playing half of the keyboards, SF has several cameos by Queen members and also some rhythm guitar by Rick Parfitt (and probably again David Richards on keys) and the rest of his albums (including Fun on Earth) have guest musicians.
Roger's ability on synths and piano, at least in the 80's, weren't too much greater than Brian's on bass or drum machines. If we rule out their main instrument, I think Brian's better on piano than Roger on guitar, and he's better on bass as well. The difference between Brian and John would've been that Brian could also sing both lead and harmonies, getting him closer to the whole idea of recording all by himself.
[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]
4) "The Harmonies Department" (Queen's trademark)
[/QUOTE]
Depends on what you mean... arranging harmonies, singing them or producing them? Those are three entirely different sets of skills again.
Arranging them - Again, Fred could do things Brian couldn't and vice-versa.
Singing them - Lord Frederick, Earl of Mercury, FTW, with Roger as second IMO. Range-wise, performance-wise, subtlety-wise, etc. Of course, they sounded at their best when they were together (e.g., STL), but all in all I think harmonies sounded better when they were all Freddie (e.g., 'Love of My Life') than when they were all Roger (e.g., 'Tenement Funster') or all Brian ('Leaving Home Ain't Easy'). 'All Dead, All Dead' is a great example of a song where Freddie 'only' sang BV's, but he made the most out of a supporting role and elevated the piece to a whole new level.
Producing them? I'd chose Freddie as well. He had a very nice way to mix them and get them to work. The others did too, of course, but not quite at the same level IMO.
[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]
5) Former training in music ( though this can be at odds with actual inherent musical talent)
[/QUOTE]
Both Freddie and Brian got to Grade IV on piano, and that's all the formal training any Queen member ever had.[/QUOTE]
So, you pretty much agreed with me, lol. If not counting freddie voice as an instrument, it's brian...not Roger..I also agree with Harmonies Freddie is the man...Brian is 2nd..
Vocal harmony · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Heavenite wrote:[/b]
I would go with this list pretty much, except woudl say that it was not all that close between Freddie and Brian in terms of harmonies. Freddie was the best singer and he was also easily the best at harmonies IMO. Just check the Cosmos Rocks and see where the harmonies went when Freddie wasn't on board any more.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure thats the case with The cosmos Rocks. I think it was a choice rather than an inability. On Made in Heaven a lot of work was done to fill in gaps in BV's and harmonies which BM and RT covered really well.
Also on Nothing But Blue BM on his own does some very Queen sounding harmony work, if RT had been there to add the top lines to those bits it would be very close. As it is it's closer than anything on the Cosmos album. Also remember that those harmonies were evident in part on the smile album. So although FM's voice wasn't present BM could both arrange and record those parts.
Sebastian · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Vocal harmony wrote:[/b]
So although FM's voice wasn't present BM could both arrange and record those parts.
[/QUOTE]
That's never been denied. However, I still think harmonies done exclusively by FM surpassed those done exclusively by RT, and those done exclusively by RT surpassed those done exclusively by BM.
Holly2003 · Member since
"Now, if we're gonna count their overall ability on different instruments, then perhaps John Deacon was the most advanced one (vocals notwithstanding). He was really good on bass and he was also quite good on guitar (certainly better, IMO, than Brian was on piano or Roger/Freddie on guitar)."
I don't see any real evidence that John was better on guitar than Roger. Both are competent rhythm players, but otherwise there's nothing to separate them. If John played the solo on Who Needs You I'd probably say he had a bit more talent than Roger, but to the best of my knowledge that's never been confirmed. He also played rhythm guitar live on Staying Power, but that's not very complicated. Roger has dabbled with lead and rhythm guitar and is competent especially with rhythm. But that's about it.
Stelios · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]
4) "The Harmonies Department" (Queen's trademark) [/QUOTE]
[i]Depends on what you mean... arranging harmonies, singing them or producing them? Those are three entirely different sets of skills again.
Arranging them - Again, Fred could do things Brian couldn't and vice-versa.
Singing them - Lord Frederick, Earl of Mercury, FTW, with Roger as second IMO. Range-wise, performance-wise, subtlety-wise, etc. Of course, they sounded at their best when they were together (e.g., STL), but all in all I think harmonies sounded better when they were all Freddie (e.g., 'Love of My Life') than when they were all Roger (e.g., 'Tenement Funster') or all Brian ('Leaving Home Ain't Easy'). 'All Dead, All Dead' is a great example of a song where Freddie 'only' sang BV's, but he made the most out of a supporting role and elevated the piece to a whole new level.
Producing them? I'd chose Freddie as well. He had a very nice way to mix them and get them to work. The others did too, of course, but not quite at the same level IMO[/i].
[i]ALSO[/i]
While on the "The Harmonies Department" i concider Brian's famous Guitar-Orchestration as part of it. The equvilant of what Freddie did with his voice in Love of my Life for example.
Stelios · Member since
Sebastian · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
I don't see any real evidence that John was better on guitar than Roger.[/QUOTE]
These things rarely have 'any real evidence', leaving it to personal opinion. And in my personal opinion, John was better on guitar than Roger.
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
Both are competent rhythm players[/QUOTE]
But John more competent than Roger IMO.
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
If John played the solo on Who Needs You[/QUOTE]
He didn't, it was Brian.
[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]
While on the "The Harmonies Department" i concider Brian's famous Guitar-Orchestration as part of it. The equvilant of what Freddie did with his voice in Love of my Life for example.[/QUOTE]
Brian played most (not all) of those guitar choirs ('orchestration' is far too big a word for that IMO) but that doesn't mean he also arranged all of them. Some of them he did, some of them were the creator of the song, some of them were teamwork.
And if we're counting harmonies on instruments (which is perfectly valid), then what Freddie did on WIAWI also counts: having synth strings interact with each other, etc. By the way John also arranged and played guitar harmonies (Misfire).
Holly2003 · Member since
By "real evidence" I of course mean the songs they played guitar on and I can't see any real difference in ability between the two based on that.
How do you know it was Brian who played the solo on Who Needs You? I think it was too, but I've never seen any confirmation of that anywhere.
The Real Wizard · Member since
Almost all of the tunes that put Queen on the map were Freddie's (Seven Seas, KQ, BoRhap, STL, Champions, Bicycle, Crazy). They all wrote brilliant songs, but at their creative peak it was Mercury who delivered the most.
Brian and Freddie both had excellent (and quite different) senses of harmony and arrangement, but Brian's technical ability on guitar edges out Mercury on piano (which is not to discount how unique Mercury's rhythmic approach to the instrument was). But in this category as a whole, May eats Mercury for breakfast. Brian's innovative genius is unparalleled not only in Queen but in the music industry as a whole. He created a huge part of the Queen sound with his bare hands when he was a teenager, and contributed to things to the evolution of the electric guitar that are still not widely understood even by most guitar players. Two words: Good Company.
John's approach to the bass was unlike most players of his time (or since) - once described as being akin to having little stories inside the songs. His musical vocabulary wasn't through the roof, but what he did with what he had was magnificent.
Not only does Roger play many instruments, but his drumming was absolutely rock solid, never missing a beat in concert - nor a backing vocal.
^ most of these things are not in public consciousness, but this is what happens when you're in a band with the greatest frontman who ever lived. Even Mercury's piano playing is rarely mentioned.
And overall as a band, no matter how bad the drugs got (largely thinking Mercury and Taylor here, of course), it never, ever got in the way of the music. If certain accounts are accurate, Queen partied on the road harder than any band before (or possibly since), and they all need to be commended for their utmost professionalism. Their off-stage life is not a thing of legend like Zeppelin (fishing, anyone?), largely because LZ's performances were often affected by it and it got people talking. Queen always kept it together.
All four of them brought something to the table, and like most great collectives, the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. And in different eras certain qualities (and the criteria) are subject to change, so it's almost unfair to give a simple response. But, if I must...
In a nutshell..
Writer - Freddie
Musician - Brian
The Real Wizard · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
How do you know it was Brian who played the solo on Who Needs You? I think it was too, but I've never seen any confirmation of that anywhere.[/QUOTE]
Bri confirmed it on his blog a few years back.
Heavenite · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Vocal harmony wrote:[/b]
So although FM's voice wasn't present BM could both arrange and record those parts.
[/QUOTE]
That's never been denied. However, I still think harmonies done exclusively by FM surpassed those done exclusively by RT, and those done exclusively by RT surpassed those done exclusively by BM.[/QUOTE]
Fair point about TCR and even the fill-in bits on MIH Vocal Harmony. But if you compare the solo albums of Freddie and Brian, IMO I would take Freddie's harmonies by a street. Doesn't mean Brian was bad by any stretch of course. But when it comes down to it, Freddie Was the lead singer. Brian may well have been technically just as capable of producing them of course! I Can't Live With You has a pretty great harmony vocal and I suspect Brian wrote and sung those.
Holly2003 · Member since
That pretty much confirms then that there's nothing between John and Roger in terms of their ability on the 6 string. They are both competent rhythm players. Roger has dabbled with a bit of lead playing too so if I had to choose one or the other based on this it would be Roger. Of course, it doesn't mean much either way. No one is going to remember either of them for their rhythm and lead playing.
Regarding the topic starter's question, it would be very hard to choose between Brian and Fred. Fred, after all, composed, arranged, sang and played piano on Bo Rap, whereas Brian did pretty much the same on Good Company -- Queen's underrated and almost unknown masterpiece. As I understand it, while the Flash Gordon album features songs from all band members it was Brian who did most of the work to make it into a proper soundtrack. Brian also took over Made in Heaven when John and Rog were floundering a bit. On the other hand, Fred did the amazing Barcelona album! Too hard to chooses between them.
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]
How do you know it was Brian who played the solo on Who Needs You? I think it was too, but I've never seen any confirmation of that anywhere.[/QUOTE]
Bri confirmed it on his blog a few years back.[/QUOTE]
Sebastian · Member since
John had a nice subtlety and use of dynamics on guitar, something that's reflected by comparing, say, 'You and I' and 'Spread Your Wings' (on both songs he played acoustic). He also had a nice way to play funky rhythm. In fact, Brian admitted the most difficult part for him (Brian) to play on stage was the AOBT funky bit, which had been recorded by John in the studio (and John's sounded more authentic).
In terms of technique, performance and control of the instrument's large range of possibilities, John demonstrated more on the ca 10 songs he played guitar on (that have been released so far) than Roger did on the ca 40.
That's why, in my estimation, John's a better guitarist than Roger. There's a reason why John played on some of Roger's songs (TLITE, TF) and at least one of Freddie's (SP) but Roger, that we know of, didn't play on John's or Freddie's songs.
Bad Seed · Member since
I would assume John to be a better guitarist than Roger simply because his main instrument is a stringed instrument, in the same way I'd expect Brian to be a better bass player than Rog. Coupled with the fact that Roger is shit on guitar!
