Who was Queen's most talented musician ?

"John's approach to the bass was unlike most players of his time (or since) - once described as being akin to having little stories inside the songs"

I find that statment a little too much. However Queen songs were always little stories evolving (e.g. not repeating the exact 1st chorus but enhance it and change it a bit when it would come up again ). Therefore everyone in the band had to keep up with the "storyline".

And on the "best ear" department i have the feeling that Freddie had a special talent of using variations and harmonics of the original note sequence of a song (especially live). I am not sure if this prooves he had the best ear but perhaps he was the most gifted on "relative pitch". Or simply had a unique sense of combining melody and rhythm.

[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]

"John's approach to the bass was unlike most players of his time (or since) - once described as being akin to having little stories inside the songs"
.[/QUOTE]
you mean like John Entwhistle??? wondered where JD got the idea from

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

Almost all of the tunes that put Queen on the map were Freddie's (Seven Seas, KQ, BoRhap, STL, Champions, Bicycle, Crazy). They all wrote brilliant songs, but at their creative peak it was Mercury who delivered the most.

Brian and Freddie both had excellent (and quite different) senses of harmony and arrangement, but Brian's technical ability on guitar edges out Mercury on piano (which is not to discount how unique Mercury's rhythmic approach to the instrument was). But in this category as a whole, May eats Mercury for breakfast. Brian's innovative genius is unparalleled not only in Queen but in the music industry as a whole. He created a huge part of the Queen sound with his bare hands when he was a teenager, and contributed to things to the evolution of the electric guitar that are still not widely understood even by most guitar players. Two words: Good Company.

John's approach to the bass was unlike most players of his time (or since) - once described as being akin to having little stories inside the songs. His musical vocabulary wasn't through the roof, but what he did with what he had was magnificent.

Not only does Roger play many instruments, but his drumming was absolutely rock solid, never missing a beat in concert - nor a backing vocal.

^ most of these things are not in public consciousness, but this is what happens when you're in a band with the greatest frontman who ever lived. Even Mercury's piano playing is rarely mentioned.

And overall as a band, no matter how bad the drugs got (largely thinking Mercury and Taylor here, of course), it never, ever got in the way of the music. If certain accounts are accurate, Queen partied on the road harder than any band before (or possibly since), and they all need to be commended for their utmost professionalism. Their off-stage life is not a thing of legend like Zeppelin (fishing, anyone?), largely because LZ's performances were often affected by it and it got people talking. Queen always kept it together.

All four of them brought something to the table, and like most great collectives, the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. And in different eras certain qualities (and the criteria) are subject to change, so it's almost unfair to give a simple response. But, if I must...

In a nutshell..

Writer - Freddie
Musician - Brian
[/QUOTE]

Glad you mentioned freddie as a pianist...I liked his style, .And I agree, Freddie best writer and course singer/performer....Brian best Musician....Doesn't mean I'm putting Roger and John down..both are solid..

[QUOTE] [b]Bad Seed wrote:[/b]

Coupled with the fact that Roger is shit on guitar![/QUOTE]

He's not. He's a good guitarist, with some very good moments. But of course Brian and John were better.

“John had a nice subtlety and use of dynamics on guitar, something that's reflected by comparing, say, 'You and I' and 'Spread Your Wings' (on both songs he played acoustic). “

Did JD play in Spread Your Wings? It’s not listed on the album notes. And the notes clearly say that both Brian and Roger played guitar on Fight From the Inside, so they were taking the time to attribute instruments to different people. The guitar sound on You and I is one of my favourites but as I said on another thread, I think JD had a LOT of help with this song. It is much more complicated than anything he had done previously (or since?) and I suspect it was “taken over” by Brian or Fred after John provided a very basic structure.

“He also had a nice way to play funky rhythm. In fact, Brian admitted the most difficult part for him (Brian) to play on stage was the AOBT funky bit, which had been recorded by John in the studio (and John's sounded more authentic).”

It’s hardly a surprise that a musician into funk would have more of a feel for it than someone who doesn’t like funk. In any event, that doesn’t have any bearing at all on whether John was a better guitarist than Roger.

“In terms of technique, performance and control of the instrument's large range of possibilities, John demonstrated more on the ca 10 songs he played guitar on (that have been released so far) than Roger did on the ca 40.”

There just isn’t the evidence to come to that conclusion.

“That's why, in my estimation, John's a better guitarist than Roger. There's a reason why John played on some of Roger's songs (TLITE, TF) and at least one of Freddie's (SP) but Roger, that we know of, didn't play on John's or Freddie's songs.”

Did John play on Loser in the End? It’s not listed on the sleeve notes. In any event, it’s a simple song that basically comprises 4 chords. Where and how then does John demonstrate more “technique, performance and control” than Roger? There could be any number of reasons for JD playing on other people’s songs and Roger not doing so. It's a real stretch to draw a conclusion from this that John is a better guitarist than Roger.

But this is a fascinating topic (to me, at least!) and if John played on some of the songs you attribute to him it opens up another little window into Queen in the studio, which to me is one of the more fascinating parts of their history.

[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]

"John's approach to the bass was unlike most players of his time (or since) - once described as being akin to having little stories inside the songs"

I find that statment a little too much. However Queen songs were always little stories evolving (e.g. not repeating the exact 1st chorus but enhance it and change it a bit when it would come up again ). Therefore everyone in the band had to keep up with the "storyline".[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's too much. How many rock songs have a bass line like You're My Best Friend?

The bass plays more notes than any other instrument in the song, yet it is merely a part of the song's overall tapestry, not a Jaco Pastorius wank-off session.

But without it, there would be so much less.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

Did JD play in Spread Your Wings? It’s not listed on the album notes.
[/QUOTE]

Neither are:

* The loads of people who stomped and clapped on WWRY.
* BV's on WWRY, other than Freddie's.
* Brian's and Roger's BV's on WATC.
* Roger's BV's on SHA.
* Brian's piano on ADAD.
* Brian's and Roger's BV's on IL.

So... the fact it's not listed doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

It’s hardly a surprise that a musician into funk would have more of a feel for it than someone who doesn’t like funk. In any event, that doesn’t have any bearing at all on whether John was a better guitarist than Roger.
[/QUOTE]

It does, because if John can play what Roger plays and Roger can't play what John plays, then John's better.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

There just isn’t the evidence to come to that conclusion.

[/QUOTE]

That's why this is a subjective topic.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

Did John play on Loser in the End? It’s not listed on the sleeve notes.
[/QUOTE]

Loads of things are not listed on the sleeve notes ... but in this case, John *is* credited on acoustic. Now, we know he didn't play on FHLI because the backing track takes show it was the four of them simultaneously (with Brian on acoustic), so it leaves the following options:

* FTS, WQ and SDOD: Very unlikely, as Brian would be a hell of a lot better than John, Roger and Freddie combined. Still, in the hypothetical case he did choose John to play acoustic on one of his songs, the fact he chose John instead of Roger would point at my theory of John being a better guitarist than Roger.

* TLITE

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

Where and how then does John demonstrate more “technique, performance and control” than Roger?
[/QUOTE]

On the way the chords are strummed, the way fret noise is mostly avoided, the way rhythm's kept precise, the way different colours are applied... take 'Misfire' (where John played both electric and acoustic), 'You and I' (where John played acoustic) and 'Another One Bites the Dust' (where John played electric). Different performances, and he did well on all of them. A genius of the guitar? No. An absolute virtuoso? No. But very good nonetheless.

Roger's performances on Queen songs (e.g., 'Drowse'), solo songs (e.g., 'Happiness') and The Cross (e.g., 'Heaven for Everyone') were alright, but they sound more basic and limited.

It's not just about playing something difficult (neither did), it's about making something simple sound better.

To measure two guitarists, you don't need to get them to play Aranjuez Concerto. Just get them to do Twinkle Twinkle Little Star - the pro will make it sound pro, even without shredding or adding flourishes. The amateur will sound amateur even playing exactly the same notes at exactly the same tempo and using exactly the same gear.

The way strokes are accentuated and alternated on AOBTD while keeping a steady rhythm, while not being an 'oh wow what a guitarist' kind of recording, is indeed quite tricky to mimic properly, whereas 'Rock It', for instance, is far more 'preset' in its performance. Same if you measure 'You and I' (acoustic) against 'Drowse' (electric rhythm), 'Who Needs You' (acoustic rhythm) against 'Sheer Heart Attack' (electric), 'Staying Power' against 'Action This Day', etc. There's enough amount of instances where John's performance has sounded more professional to logically think that John was, overall, a better guitarist.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

There could be any number of reasons for JD playing on other people’s songs and Roger not doing so.

[/QUOTE]

Yes, but the most logical one is: his guitar skills were good enough for Freddie and Roger to get him to play on their songs.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

It's a real stretch to draw a conclusion from this that John is a better guitarist than Roger.

[/QUOTE]

Not really, especially considering there are other factors.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

But this is a fascinating topic (to me, at least!) and if John played on some of the songs you attribute to him it opens up another little window into Queen in the studio, which to me is one of the more fascinating parts of their history.

[/QUOTE]

John played, as far as I know, on:

* Loser in the End (acoustic).
* Tenement Funster (acoustic).
* Misfire (acoustic and most electric).
* You and I (acoustic).
* Spread Your Wings (acoustic).
* Who Needs You (acoustic rhythm).
* In Only Seven Days (acoustic).
* Another One Bites the Dust (electric).
* Need Your Loving Tonight (acoustic).
* In the Space Capsule (electric).
* In the Death Cell (electric).
* Execution of Flash (or was it Arboria?) (electric)
* Staying Power (electric).
* Back Chat (electric rhythm).
* Cool Cat (electric).
* I Want to Break Free (electric rhythm).
* Pain Is So Close to Pleasure (electric rhythm).
* Don't Lose Your Head (electric rhythm).
* Rain Must Fall (electric rhythm).
* My Baby Does Me (electric rhythm).

A thing about Roger on guitar skills.
I believe it is on the audio commentary of Queen: Greatest Video Hits 2.
Brian sais something about his guitar playing on A Kind Of Magic. Roger corrects him and sais that he is actually playing the guitars.
Brian responds something like "oh, pardon me", implying that he had forgot who played the guitars on the studio version of AKOMagic.

[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]

A thing about Roger on guitar skills.
I believe it is on the audio commentary of Queen: Greatest Video Hits 2.
Brian sais something about his guitar playing on A Kind Of Magic. Roger corrects him and sais that he is actually playing the guitars.
Brian responds something like "oh, pardon me", implying that he had forgot who played the guitars on the studio version of AKOMagic.[/QUOTE]

Er... no, no, no, no, no, no and no!

Brian said that Fred had looped a bit of the guitar Brian'd played and then Roger said it'd actually been him (Roger) who'd done it (i.e., looping what Brian'd played). They were talking about audio editing/manipulation, not about playing.

And it was not GVHII but AG.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]Stelios wrote:[/b]

A thing about Roger on guitar skills.
I believe it is on the audio commentary of Queen: Greatest Video Hits 2.
Brian sais something about his guitar playing on A Kind Of Magic. Roger corrects him and sais that he is actually playing the guitars.
Brian responds something like "oh, pardon me", implying that he had forgot who played the guitars on the studio version of AKOMagic.[/QUOTE]

Er... no, no, no, no, no, no and no!

Brian said that Fred had looped a bit of the guitar Brian'd played and then Roger said it'd actually been him (Roger) who'd done it (i.e., looping what Brian'd played). They were talking about audio editing/manipulation, not about playing.

And it was not GVHII but AG.[/QUOTE]

You are right. I found that segment yesterday on you tube.
By the way what is AG?

Absolute Greatest, released in 2009.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wanker wrote:[/b]

Absolute Greatest, released in 2009.[/QUOTE]

I see.
Obviously the same commentary is in bouth of those collections cos only own GVHII and it is in there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QGCUfnckeI

No, you're right - it was on GVHII.

Still, the core point remains: they didn't say or imply AT ALL that Roger had *played* the guitars, but that he'd pulled the bit that *Brian* had played and then looped it.

I've been proved wrong: the Doctor confirmed on the Red Special book that the three-part harmonies occurring after Fred sings 'secret harmonies' on A Kind of Magic were indeed played by Roger, on the Red Special no less!