Israel: The Double Standard

I said Stalin didn't ESPECIALLY hate the Orthodox church. I didn't say that he wasn't an extremely callous man who did not mind any fatalities on the road to his objectives - he was. The quote attributed to him, though quite probably completely apocryphal, "the death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic", is a very adequate description of his world view. He did not lift one finger to stop the persecution of the Russian Orthodox Church (which, it must be said, played a very dubious role in Tsarist times and during the Russian Civil War), but he did not care to unleash his personal wrath on it either.

As for Pius XII, his position in World War II is extremely controversial. Even if he did oppose the nazis that does not have any relevance to the question of whether or not an abduction of the pope was ever planned or ordered by the nazi leadership, let alone ordered by Hitler personally. Many of the facts show that he did very little, genuinely opposing nazism almost as much as communism but nonetheless fearing to do anything substantial as it might affect the policy of strict neutrality he followed. He was certainly not a great friend of the Jews and at any rate he was still the hub of a Vatican machinery that behaved horribly in the face of Italian fascism and Spanish Falangism, outright supporting the mutineering fascist hordes that swept over Spain during the Spanish Civil War of 1936-1939.

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE]

[b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote: [/b] "were not religious" and "didn't follow any religious belief or were particularly anti-religion" are two very similar concepts, aren't they?

[/QUOTE]

that isn't what is said. stop misquoting me - i said:
here's some examples of warmongers/haters/persecutors who didn't follow any religious belief or were particularly anti-religion at the time they carried out their attrocities.

the point being that i was making a clear distinction that some of the list didn't have a religious belief and others were particularly anti-religion when they committed their attrocities. the f*cking key word is the f*cking great [i][b]"OR"[/b][/i] in the middle of the sentence. ie - that some didn't follow a belief, while others did - but were anti-religion at that time, despite their own beliefs. capiche?
what is it with you? why can't you actually read what i type instead of telling me what i mean?

definitely time to back out of this one - no point trying to discuss anything with someone who's intent on telling me what i said or meant - when YOU're wrong on BOTH counts.[/QUOTE]

Ok, I see, I should have understood right away that you meant that Hitler was a Catholic and Stalin was indifferent but an ex-seminary student. How stupid of me, I am so sorry. And how stupid of me also that I failed to see how you have the moral high ground in an argument where you justify the deaths of hundreds upon hundreds of civilians as a regrettable necessity and I say it is unacceptable. I should have understood how wrong it is of me to be outraged by the mass death inflicted of people of the wrong persuasion/ethnicity. Instead, I should have gravely stated that it is regrettable that such offers must be made for the greater good. Thank you for showing me the light, Mr. Brenski. You've shown me how arrogant I have been by your ceaseless modesty, you've showed me the error of my ways by your consistent morality and deep humanity in explaining to me how it is really sad that some 1800 civilians are now dead, they died so that their neigbors no longer have to fear that some of them might want to kill *them*. You are such a superior person, thank you for sparing some of your time for me.

Do not even try to insult Pius XII

[QUOTE] [b]Jefffab1995 wrote:[/b]

Do not even try to insult Pius XII[/QUOTE]

You have some nerve, after your anti-semitic ranting! If you can't accept that the Catholic church did not behave in a particularly uplifting way during the period before and during World War II, that's not my problem. Pius XII was an extremely conservative man who was undoubtedly peaceful and pious, but also very intolerant of progressives and would support the more conservative side in any conflict, including being on good footing with Mussolini and Franco.

Do not even dare insult the church

Thomas

[QUOTE] [b]Jefffab1995 wrote:[/b]

Do not even dare insult the church[/QUOTE]

Really dude, get help. If you can't handle that the Catholic Church did bad things, you can't handle the world.

[QUOTE] [b]Jefffab1995 wrote:[/b]

Thomas [/QUOTE]

Freddie Mercury is Riding Superman?

Yes!

And what could his holiness have dine he was a prisoner in the vatican

Do you only ever just parrot phrases you've heard somewhere? Pius was no prisoner.

His Holiness could not do anything any influence the Vatican had was lost when Mussolini came to power

Ill say it again

It's a load of crap. Just repeating it often isn't going to change that. The Lateran Treaty the Vatican made with the fascists actually gave them more rights than they'd had since 1871. The "prisoner in the Vatican" you spoke about was actually the term applied to Pius IX, pope from 1846-1878, because his later years, since 1871, saw the Vatican's power reduced dramatically.

Yes and that kept up until the end of pius XII reign when he was the last valid pop