Offered for free?
Really?
matt z
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MercurialFreddie
Tero, TWO mixes were made - Brian's and Orbit's and we know which one was chosen by the Jacko Estate. Don't be so angry at QueenProd. I too expected more from the Queen Forever release, but bear in mind that majority of "news" related to the project were grievously marked by poetic licence of the journalists. I'm positively sure that we would get more FM+MJ tracks but the Jackson estate pressured Queen prod.
Apart from all the controversy around this album the mixes of Love Kills (Brian's mix) and Let Me in your heart again (BM + RT mix) REALLY ARE BETTER than the newest work of W.Orbit. My friend which is professional musician and sometimes oversees mixing process has said upon hearing all three, that the other mixes sound incomparably better than Orbit's work.
Apart from all the controversy around this album the mixes of Love Kills (Brian's mix) and Let Me in your heart again (BM + RT mix) REALLY ARE BETTER than the newest work of W.Orbit. My friend which is professional musician and sometimes oversees mixing process has said upon hearing all three, that the other mixes sound incomparably better than Orbit's work.
tero! 48531
It's also possible that Brian's version is even worse, or judged to be worse because it sounds like a Queen track instead of a Freddie + Michael track.
Let's put it this way... The MJJ estate wouldn't want Brian to re-record and remix Michael's other demo recordings, so why would they want his work on this track?
I hardly think that two versions are enough to choose from, because you end up choosing the one which is slightly less awful than the other.
Let's put it this way... The MJJ estate wouldn't want Brian to re-record and remix Michael's other demo recordings, so why would they want his work on this track?
I hardly think that two versions are enough to choose from, because you end up choosing the one which is slightly less awful than the other.
cmsdrums
[QUOTE] [b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b]
Let's put it this way... The MJJ estate wouldn't want Brian to re-record and remix Michael's other demo recordings, so why would they want his work on this track?
[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I don't think they should even get any a say beyond whether his vocal is allowed to appear or not - certainly not an input into choice of producer, style of mix etc...
It was written by Freddie, became a Queen track that went unused, then became a Freddie solo track. He happened to record some vocals casually with a friend and not as part of a planned project or agreed recording deal or release plan.
I would wager that Montserrat Caballe doesn't even get much (if any) input on how the Barcelona album in treated - and that album bears her name as a 50:50 credit.
To me, Jackson's Estate calling any shots on TMBMTLTT is equivalent to Joan Armatrading vetoing a remix or release of 'Don't Lose Your Head'!!!
Let's put it this way... The MJJ estate wouldn't want Brian to re-record and remix Michael's other demo recordings, so why would they want his work on this track?
[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I don't think they should even get any a say beyond whether his vocal is allowed to appear or not - certainly not an input into choice of producer, style of mix etc...
It was written by Freddie, became a Queen track that went unused, then became a Freddie solo track. He happened to record some vocals casually with a friend and not as part of a planned project or agreed recording deal or release plan.
I would wager that Montserrat Caballe doesn't even get much (if any) input on how the Barcelona album in treated - and that album bears her name as a 50:50 credit.
To me, Jackson's Estate calling any shots on TMBMTLTT is equivalent to Joan Armatrading vetoing a remix or release of 'Don't Lose Your Head'!!!
winterspelt
[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]
To be honest, I don't think they should even get any a say beyond whether his vocal is allowed to appear or not - certainly not an input into choice of producer, style of mix etc...
[/QUOTE]
I disagree: The estate is right taking care of MJ's voice because when no one is taking care (or trust somebody else to do the work without supervision) things like the Orbit mix happens. In this case, the MJ estate did the right thing and the Freddie estate/QP/Jim Beach/someone did not.
They did a huge mistake and spent lots of time in negotiations instead of just give up and focus on other stuff, to the point that it seems to be safe to assume (in my opinio) that QP was forcing the negotiations (remember Roger's rant about how difficult the MJ estate was?) Oh boy, if MJ estate were reluctant to work with Queen or were trying to impose something (like a mix or a producer) then QP should have stopped.
[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]
It was written by Freddie, became a Queen track that went unused, then became a Freddie solo track. He happened to record some vocals casually with a friend and not as part of a planned project or agreed recording deal or release plan.
I would wager that Montserrat Caballe doesn't even get much (if any) input on how the Barcelona album in treated - and that album bears her name as a 50:50 credit.
To me, Jackson's Estate calling any shots on TMBMTLTT is equivalent to Joan Armatrading vetoing a remix or release of 'Don't Lose Your Head'!!![/QUOTE]
In the case of Barcelona, Montserrat may have the credit, but Mike Moran gets the money. Im sure it was just a business arrangement in order to get more commercial and artistic exposure. I mean, everybody in the opera world knows who is Montserrat Caballé. Everybody in the rock world knows who is Freddie Mercury and just a few people within the business knows who Mike Moran is.
The difference between Joan Armatrading and the MJ estate is that Joan was willing to be part of DLYH while the MJ estate, was difficult and probably werent even interested.
To be honest, I don't think they should even get any a say beyond whether his vocal is allowed to appear or not - certainly not an input into choice of producer, style of mix etc...
[/QUOTE]
I disagree: The estate is right taking care of MJ's voice because when no one is taking care (or trust somebody else to do the work without supervision) things like the Orbit mix happens. In this case, the MJ estate did the right thing and the Freddie estate/QP/Jim Beach/someone did not.
They did a huge mistake and spent lots of time in negotiations instead of just give up and focus on other stuff, to the point that it seems to be safe to assume (in my opinio) that QP was forcing the negotiations (remember Roger's rant about how difficult the MJ estate was?) Oh boy, if MJ estate were reluctant to work with Queen or were trying to impose something (like a mix or a producer) then QP should have stopped.
[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]
It was written by Freddie, became a Queen track that went unused, then became a Freddie solo track. He happened to record some vocals casually with a friend and not as part of a planned project or agreed recording deal or release plan.
I would wager that Montserrat Caballe doesn't even get much (if any) input on how the Barcelona album in treated - and that album bears her name as a 50:50 credit.
To me, Jackson's Estate calling any shots on TMBMTLTT is equivalent to Joan Armatrading vetoing a remix or release of 'Don't Lose Your Head'!!![/QUOTE]
In the case of Barcelona, Montserrat may have the credit, but Mike Moran gets the money. Im sure it was just a business arrangement in order to get more commercial and artistic exposure. I mean, everybody in the opera world knows who is Montserrat Caballé. Everybody in the rock world knows who is Freddie Mercury and just a few people within the business knows who Mike Moran is.
The difference between Joan Armatrading and the MJ estate is that Joan was willing to be part of DLYH while the MJ estate, was difficult and probably werent even interested.
tero! 48531
[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b]
Let's put it this way... The MJJ estate wouldn't want Brian to re-record and remix Michael's other demo recordings, so why would they want his work on this track?
[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I don't think they should even get any a say beyond whether his vocal is allowed to appear or not - certainly not an input into choice of producer, style of mix etc...
It was written by Freddie, became a Queen track that went unused, then became a Freddie solo track. He happened to record some vocals casually with a friend and not as part of a planned project or agreed recording deal or release plan.
I would wager that Montserrat Caballe doesn't even get much (if any) input on how the Barcelona album in treated - and that album bears her name as a 50:50 credit.
To me, Jackson's Estate calling any shots on TMBMTLTT is equivalent to Joan Armatrading vetoing a remix or release of 'Don't Lose Your Head'!!![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] [b]tero! 48531 wrote:[/b]
Let's put it this way... The MJJ estate wouldn't want Brian to re-record and remix Michael's other demo recordings, so why would they want his work on this track?
[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I don't think they should even get any a say beyond whether his vocal is allowed to appear or not - certainly not an input into choice of producer, style of mix etc...
It was written by Freddie, became a Queen track that went unused, then became a Freddie solo track. He happened to record some vocals casually with a friend and not as part of a planned project or agreed recording deal or release plan.
I would wager that Montserrat Caballe doesn't even get much (if any) input on how the Barcelona album in treated - and that album bears her name as a 50:50 credit.
To me, Jackson's Estate calling any shots on TMBMTLTT is equivalent to Joan Armatrading vetoing a remix or release of 'Don't Lose Your Head'!!![/QUOTE]
tero! 48531
[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]
To be honest, I don't think they should even get any a say beyond whether his vocal is allowed to appear or not - certainly not an input into choice of producer, style of mix etc...
It was written by Freddie, became a Queen track that went unused, then became a Freddie solo track. He happened to record some vocals casually with a friend and not as part of a planned project or agreed recording deal or release plan.
[/QUOTE]
It's an example I've used a lot with these MJ tracks, but here it comes again...
tero! 48531 has just as much artistic rights into these songs as Brian, Roger, or William Orbit (ie. big fat zero.)
We can all make the remix we want, but we aren't the original artists (or their representatives), and don't have an actual say in what gets released.
Queen are lucky to have gotten a deal for one song on their new cash cow, and they've cocked it up my making a shitty remix.
[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]
I would wager that Montserrat Caballe doesn't even get much (if any) input on how the Barcelona album in treated - and that album bears her name as a 50:50 credit. [/QUOTE]
I agree, the name alone doesn't tell anything.
A better indication (although not perfectly accurate either) would be the total percentage of performance and song writing credits, which would give Freddie a 44% share, and Montserrat 27% of the album.
[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]To me, Jackson's Estate calling any shots on TMBMTLTT is equivalent to Joan Armatrading vetoing a remix or release of 'Don't Lose Your Head'!!![/QUOTE]
The MJJ estate has the right to call the shots because they represent one of the performers. QP (through Jim Beach) can do what they want with their half of the recording, but it's only fair that both sides have an equal say.
That same principle however isn't applied to session musicians who have already signed away their rights to a performance... I don't think the sharp businessmen of QP would have allowed a guest singer to retain any rights to his replaceable performance, but it's theoretically possible.
To be honest, I don't think they should even get any a say beyond whether his vocal is allowed to appear or not - certainly not an input into choice of producer, style of mix etc...
It was written by Freddie, became a Queen track that went unused, then became a Freddie solo track. He happened to record some vocals casually with a friend and not as part of a planned project or agreed recording deal or release plan.
[/QUOTE]
It's an example I've used a lot with these MJ tracks, but here it comes again...
tero! 48531 has just as much artistic rights into these songs as Brian, Roger, or William Orbit (ie. big fat zero.)
We can all make the remix we want, but we aren't the original artists (or their representatives), and don't have an actual say in what gets released.
Queen are lucky to have gotten a deal for one song on their new cash cow, and they've cocked it up my making a shitty remix.
[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]
I would wager that Montserrat Caballe doesn't even get much (if any) input on how the Barcelona album in treated - and that album bears her name as a 50:50 credit. [/QUOTE]
I agree, the name alone doesn't tell anything.
A better indication (although not perfectly accurate either) would be the total percentage of performance and song writing credits, which would give Freddie a 44% share, and Montserrat 27% of the album.
[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]To me, Jackson's Estate calling any shots on TMBMTLTT is equivalent to Joan Armatrading vetoing a remix or release of 'Don't Lose Your Head'!!![/QUOTE]
The MJJ estate has the right to call the shots because they represent one of the performers. QP (through Jim Beach) can do what they want with their half of the recording, but it's only fair that both sides have an equal say.
That same principle however isn't applied to session musicians who have already signed away their rights to a performance... I don't think the sharp businessmen of QP would have allowed a guest singer to retain any rights to his replaceable performance, but it's theoretically possible.
emrabt
I wouldn't have thought Jackson's people would have had much say over this track, apart from setting a price on performance royalties. As Freddie wrote the music and lyrics (Jackson adlibbed verse is absent so no writers credit.) Jim Beach would have creative control over both.
The other two tracks (victory and State of shock) on the other hand, were Jackson tracks, so the creative control over those would land in their court. Which probably explain why they aren't letting Queen near them
The other two tracks (victory and State of shock) on the other hand, were Jackson tracks, so the creative control over those would land in their court. Which probably explain why they aren't letting Queen near them
tero! 48531
[QUOTE] [b]emrabt wrote:[/b]
I wouldn't have thought Jackson's people would have had much say over this track, apart from setting a price on performance royalties. As Freddie wrote the music and lyrics (Jackson adlibbed verse is absent so no writers credit.) Jim Beach would have creative control over both.
The other two tracks (victory and State of shock) on the other hand, were Jackson tracks, so the creative control over those would land in their court. Which probably explain why they aren't letting Queen near them[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's as clear cut as you say.
Supposedly it's legal to release any old recordings as long as you pay all the dues to the performer and composer.
Both parties would have the same recordings, so this would be a case of a gentleman's agreement between the two estates.
(Perhaps the MJ estate doesn't actually need these duets, whereas the FM estate wants it to maximise sales.)
Unfortunately for the FM estate, remix explains why the MJ estate won't be letting Queen near the other tracks...
I wouldn't have thought Jackson's people would have had much say over this track, apart from setting a price on performance royalties. As Freddie wrote the music and lyrics (Jackson adlibbed verse is absent so no writers credit.) Jim Beach would have creative control over both.
The other two tracks (victory and State of shock) on the other hand, were Jackson tracks, so the creative control over those would land in their court. Which probably explain why they aren't letting Queen near them[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's as clear cut as you say.
Supposedly it's legal to release any old recordings as long as you pay all the dues to the performer and composer.
Both parties would have the same recordings, so this would be a case of a gentleman's agreement between the two estates.
(Perhaps the MJ estate doesn't actually need these duets, whereas the FM estate wants it to maximise sales.)
Unfortunately for the FM estate, remix explains why the MJ estate won't be letting Queen near the other tracks...
cmsdrums
I recall reading somewhere that State of Shock actually co-composed by Freddie with Michael, but when he couldn't make the time to complete the recordings he graciously let go of his writing credit so Jackson could proceed with another artist? We're now rueing that decision!!
tero! 48531
[QUOTE] [b]cmsdrums wrote:[/b]
I recall reading somewhere that State of Shock actually co-composed by Freddie with Michael, but when he couldn't make the time to complete the recordings he graciously let go of his writing credit so Jackson could proceed with another artist? We're now rueing that decision!! [/QUOTE]
I don't know about the credits, but based on the evidence so far, we should be grateful that QP hasn't gotten their hands on the other songs!
I recall reading somewhere that State of Shock actually co-composed by Freddie with Michael, but when he couldn't make the time to complete the recordings he graciously let go of his writing credit so Jackson could proceed with another artist? We're now rueing that decision!! [/QUOTE]
I don't know about the credits, but based on the evidence so far, we should be grateful that QP hasn't gotten their hands on the other songs!
Vali
Surprisingly, I heard it this morning at work, on a spanish radio station.
apparently, it sounded as shitty as usual and couldn´t hear Freddie in the last section
apparently, it sounded as shitty as usual and couldn´t hear Freddie in the last section
Mr.QueenFan
[QUOTE] [b]Vali wrote:[/b]
Surprisingly, I heard it this morning at work, on a spanish radio station.
apparently, it sounded as shitty as usual and couldn´t hear Freddie in the last section[/QUOTE]
They´re probably still using the BBC premiered version of the song.
Surprisingly, I heard it this morning at work, on a spanish radio station.
apparently, it sounded as shitty as usual and couldn´t hear Freddie in the last section[/QUOTE]
They´re probably still using the BBC premiered version of the song.
Vali
yep, that´s what I thought. There´s still ... hope?
bootLuca
if I remember correctly, in the early 90s, John Deacon made a remix of There Must Be More, someone can tell me what has become of this remix?
couldn't this be an opportunity to release it?
couldn't this be an opportunity to release it?