You And I

I was just listening to "You And I". I always loved this song because it is so light but still very well crafted.

I just was wondering how much influence Freddie had on this track. As far as I am concerned, John never wrote such a complicated track before or after this one.

"You're My Best Friend" and "Misfire" are hardly as complicated nor is "Spread Your Wings" or I"f You Can't Beat Them" and In "Only Seven Days".

It has key changes, tempochanges, lots of harmonies that says 'Freddie' allover.

I suspect Freddie cowrote or at least coarranged this song because it became a small masterpiece.

How are you thoughts about this track?

One of the most underrated Queen songs. I absolutely love it! The tempo changes, the harmonies, the guitar solo, the joy in the song and the lyrics. It's one of Queen's best, yet so unknown unfortunately.

I think the lyrics are by Deacon, the orchestration mainly by Freddie.

Another great song that never made the set list!

I love this song. My favourite from John Deacon, right after Spread Your Wings.

Agree with all the above. It is an absolutely fantastic song. Beautiful harmonies, guitar orchestration (RT's drums) great bass line, tasty solo.....

That was the reason that I chose to do a recorded version/cover of it. (Almost done. lead vocal to add.....)
I believe a snippet or two of it appears on YT under the Doxyworld page. This and 'Long Away' are vastly under-rated IMO. Both these songs feature great harmony.

I don't think it's *that* complicated. It's a beautiful song and it's got loads of interesting details, but so are other tracks that he wrote. The fact John wasn't a singer didn't disable him from being able to arrange vocal harmonies for the others to sing.

Getting progressively into more elaborate material, from 'Misfire' to 'Best Friend' to 'You and I' and then going in the other direction and coming up with 'Spread Your wings', 'In Only Seven Days' and 'Need Your Loving Tonight' makes sense in the big picture, as does the evolution of any other songwriter (e.g., Brian going from co-writing 'Doing All Right' to coming up with 'Father to Son', 'Brighton Rock', peaking on 'Prophet's Song' and then getting progressively simpler with 'White Man', 'All Dead', 'Leaving Home Ain't Easy' and 'Sail Away Sweet Sister', or Freddie going from 'My Fairy King' to 'Black Queen' to 'Lap of the Gods' to 'Bo Rhap' and then dialling it down for 'Millionaire Waltz' and gradually getting simpler up to the times of 'Body Language' and 'Staying Power').

Perfect pop song.
I love queen.

Did John compose anything as complicated before or after You and I? If not, it seems highly likely that another band member -- likely Fred -- gave him some help.

The section with the lyrics "You know I never could foresee the future years" is very similar to the section (coda?) in MotBQ with vocals "I reign with my left hand, I rule with my right".

In what way Holly? Chord progression and intervals are totally different.

Hmm....I do love You and I, great song....but it really isnt particularly complicated, I don't think. Maybe slightly unconventional in that it doesn't have a chorus....and the modulation in the bridge is to the relative minor, not too unusual there really....

The best Queen single there never was. As I have said before. Again and again. I am awesome.

F# to Bm?

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

I don't think it's *that* complicated. It's a beautiful song and it's got loads of interesting details, but so are other tracks that he wrote. The fact John wasn't a singer didn't disable him from being able to arrange vocal harmonies for the others to sing.

Getting progressively into more elaborate material, from 'Misfire' to 'Best Friend' to 'You and I' and then going in the other direction and coming up with 'Spread Your wings', 'In Only Seven Days' and 'Need Your Loving Tonight' makes sense in the big picture, as does the evolution of any other songwriter (e.g., Brian going from co-writing 'Doing All Right' to coming up with 'Father to Son', 'Brighton Rock', peaking on 'Prophet's Song' and then getting progressively simpler with 'White Man', 'All Dead', 'Leaving Home Ain't Easy' and 'Sail Away Sweet Sister', or Freddie going from 'My Fairy King' to 'Black Queen' to 'Lap of the Gods' to 'Bo Rhap' and then dialling it down for 'Millionaire Waltz' and gradually getting simpler up to the times of 'Body Language' and 'Staying Power').[/QUOTE]

I dont really agree with you.

With 'that complicated' I mean compared to John's catalogue.

You and I has so many more features than any other JD song. Listen to the harmonies, tempo changes, chord changes, guitar arrangements, combining different scales into one song. All things that were scarce or absent on JD songs in general.

Freddie wrote simpler things like Crazy Little Thing Called Love and Body Language and the likes but he also wrote more complicated things like It's A Hard Life, Keep Passing The Open Windows and the whole Barcelona LP, which was probably his most complicated songwriting ever.

John on the other hand, kept simple all his career, and You And I is the exception, hence this thread.

I was just wondering if someone could confirm that Freddie was heavily involved with this track because for me, it has Freddie allover the place. If I didn't know better then i would think it would be a Freddie track. And Freddie was involved in other people songs, notably Radio Gaga and A Kind Of Magic.

You see my point?

........just thinking, now that it has been mentioned, I can hear freddie, a la 'don't stop me now ', in there somewhere.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

Did John compose anything as complicated before or after You and I? If not, it seems highly likely that another band member -- likely Fred -- gave him some help.[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. It could've simply been his peak. There are no officially released songs with Roger singing any higher than on 'Survival' before or since, but that doesn't mean he didn't sing there, it just means that was his peak. 'You and I' could be to John what 'Prophet's Song' was to Brian, 'Bo Rhap' to Fred, 'Tenement Funster' to Roger.

[QUOTE] [b]Holly2003 wrote:[/b]

The section with the lyrics "You know I never could foresee the future years" is very similar to the section (coda?) in MotBQ with vocals "I reign with my left hand, I rule with my right".[/QUOTE]

It's a V > i progression twice followed by the III > VII > V, and then a nice chain of fifths. In that sense it's not that similar to 'Black Queen' and it's far closer to 'Spread Your Wings.'

[QUOTE] [b]Sunshine wrote:[/b]

With 'that complicated' I mean compared to John's catalogue.[/QUOTE]

Again, it's probably more detailed than other songs of his, but not light years ahead. It does make sense in the timeline of his compositions, sandwiched between 'Best Friend' and 'Spread Your Wings,' two songs that are far cleverer than they might seem at first.

[QUOTE] [b]Sunshine wrote:[/b]

You and I has so many more features than any other JD song.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with the use of 'so many' but that's subjective. It is indeed a very strong song and it's got a lot of work but, then again, it doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't pull it off. Unlike more extreme cases (e.g., Roger and 'Innuendo', which was indeed way out of his league).

[QUOTE] [b]Sunshine wrote:[/b]

Listen to the harmonies, tempo changes, chord changes, guitar arrangements, combining different scales into one song. All things that were scarce or absent on JD songs in general.
[/QUOTE]

There's only one tempo change and it's not that big of a deal, really. I mean, it's very nice and fits the song perfectly, but it's not like you had to be Chopin to be able to put it into the piece. John, like many professional songwriters, knew very well when to use which elements to benefit the song.

'Spread Your Wings' has its harmony also spiced up with (relatively) unusual chords; progressions featuring some chromaticism were already there on 'Best Friend' and would indeed appear again on 'Spread Your Wings.'

Guitar arrangements are present on 'Misfire' (most of which he wrote, arranged and played himself), 'Best Friend', 'Spread Your Wings', 'Who Needs You' and 'In Only Seven Days'. It is true that his 80's output was radically different, but that's a reflection of the switch in his songwriting focus rather than any alleged evidence of Freddie's (or Brian's, or Roger's) external input, or lack thereof, on 'You and I.'

Other than diatonic and chromatic, John's not combining any other scale on 'You and I.' Both diatonic and chromatic were used before and after. He did use them probably more 'cleverly' here (although that's debatable). It's a beautiful song, but not out of John's reach. It's not like he composed a Beethoven sonata or a Rachmaninov concerto.

[QUOTE] [b]Sunshine wrote:[/b]

Freddie ... wrote more complicated things like It's A Hard Life, Keep Passing The Open Windows[/QUOTE]

Neither of those songs are particularly complicated. Compared to Freddie's output, they were just slightly above average. Very good songs, both, but not necessarily complicated.

[QUOTE] [b]Sunshine wrote:[/b]

the whole Barcelona LP, which was probably his most complicated songwriting ever.
[/QUOTE]

But half of it wasn't his songwriting anyway. He received substantial input from someone whose actual profession largely consisted of scoring orchestral music and who was far more knowledgeable in that.

[QUOTE] [b]Sunshine wrote:[/b]

John on the other hand, kept simple all his career
[/QUOTE]

Not really. 'Best Friend' sounds simple and is very ear-friendly, but it's very detailed; he certainly knew what he was doing. Same can be said about 'Spread Your Wings' and even his so-called 'simpler' output, which still had very interesting details. Granted, 'Break Free' is as simple as it can get.

[QUOTE] [b]Sunshine wrote:[/b]

I was just wondering if someone could confirm that Freddie was heavily involved with this track because for me, it has Freddie allover the place.[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. A song with loads of harmonies isn't necessarily Freddie's, the same way a song with loads of guitars isn't necessarily Brian's. Fred was an extraordinary songwriter, but it doesn't mean that every single bit of talent found on the Queen catalogue had to come from him.

[QUOTE] [b]Sunshine wrote:[/b]

And Freddie was involved in other people songs, notably Radio Gaga and A Kind Of Magic.

[/QUOTE]

And 'Break Free' as well, but it doesn't necessarily mean 'You and I' had heavy input from him or that it was beyond John's abilities. It could've easily been his peak, just like 'Bo Rhap' was for Fred or 'Prophet's Song' for Brian.