Harmony/composing skills

What about The Show Must Go On ?
Its quite a unique song with a somehow simple repetitive chord sequence a key modulation and a rather simple bridge section.
However is very striking in its own way.
Am i missing something?

The basic template is fairly simple, but even then Brian managed to spice it up (e.g., the end of the first chorus, the dissonance in the middle-eight resolved to the relative) and, of course, the arrangement is beautiful (note how each section is quite different despite having the same chord sequence), the performance is exquisite (Fred's vocals are genius, but what the others did is also magnificent) and it's really well produced.

It takes a remarkable artist to be able to come up with such a masterpiece over a relatively straightforward initial formula. Most people would've come up with a forgettable cyclic bubblegum pop or a simple formulaic pop-punk with those tools, yet Brian managed to create a work of art like that. Absolutely phenomenal.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]


What Roger said was that he came up with some chords that he wouldn't have thought of had he written the song on guitar. Some of the chords (and even the fact the song is in F Major) were certainly more natural for keyboards than guitar, especially for someone who was admittedly not particularly proficient at either.[/QUOTE]


I don't know how exactly it went, but there was a quote from Brian where he said something like that about Freddie's songs, that even when he would write songs on guitar, they wouldn't be in usual 'guitar-friendly' keys (I guess CLTCL would be an exception)

To be fair, other Freddie's songs that have been confirmed or which are regularly suspected to have been written on guitar tend to be in guitar-friendly keys (e.g., 'Great King Rat', 'Liar', 'Ogre Battle'). I suppose 'Mad the Swine' could be an exception, unless they simply tuned their guitars half a step down.

Thanks Sebastian for the input on Show Must Go On.Interesting
And obviously its got a hell of a vocal line/melody.
I think it could have worked with any chord progression behind it. The one they chose brings the song to another level of course.

As for Freddie songs not beeing in usual 'guitar-friendly' keys as The King Of Rhye sais, i sure remeber that also but not for the guitar based writen.
If there is a quote even for those ones, i haven't heard of.

Yes, definitely the melody's brilliant there. Brian was also an anacrusis expert, and that helped make his songs more uplifting (All Dead, I Want It All, Save Me, Another World, Keep Yourself Alive...).

Being a magnificent songwriter is not necessarily a matter of coming up with crazy progressions or rare functional harmony, it's being able to excel even with relatively few tools to work with, managing to be clear and precise but also clever and detailed rather than just either... or... By the time he wrote 'Show Must Go On' he had over two decades of experience as a professional composer, and it shows.

Do we know much about how Brian and Freddie became such sophisticated songwriters? Where and how did they learn, and for how long had they been writing in order for them to already be so incredible at it by the time they were recording their earliest stuff?

I guess a starting point is how they were both really good listeners and they both learnt their instruments (piano for Fred, guitar *and* piano for Brian) to a good standard before they began writing, or at least before they began writing stuff that wound up in records.

What's been described briefly is that Fred's songwriting approach, especially in the early days, was to have a clear view of what he wanted (e.g., 'I want a song about having been triumphant over some difficult times', and then 'Champions' is born) and then write and re-write, take his pieces apart, make changes, tweak them and so on until they were exactly as he wanted them.

'Master-Stroke' could also be an example: he wanted to translate the painting into music; for 'Killer Queen' he uncharacteristically had the lyrics first, so then he wrote music that would fit their tone and subject matter.

Brian's approach might have been (I'm just speculating here) similar sometimes. He said he wanted ''39' to be 'a skiffle song about time travel,' and he built it from there. 'It's Late': a play in three acts. 'We Will Rock You': something the audience could participate on (by stomping, clapping and singing) and reflecting what he rightly called 'the futility of violence'. 'Good Company' also had a clear narrative with the character he created and how he went through all those stages, but also musically it started off with George Formby and ended up with Temperance Seven, so it seems to me that he also had a very clear idea of the kind of song he wanted.

In terms of transferable skills, they were both quite creative: Freddie with his drawings and his designs, Brian making the guitar with his dad. Those are aspects that weren't directly related to songwriting but which developed patience, craftsmanship, efficiency and attention to detail, which they could then apply to everything else.

Look at how Freddie was such a great producer (e.g., 'One Vision'), how keen he was on giving ideas for videos, etc., all those aspects have a common denominator: creativity, good ideas, a vision.

Look at how Brian's so passionate about stereo photography, animal welfare, astrophysics, Star Wars collecting, teaching (in the early 70's some primary school kids were lucky enough to have Mr May himself as their maths lecturer) ... again, the elements of patience, perseverance and perfectionism are there. To put it in a bit of a Freudian stereotype: he can thank mum and dad for that, and he has, many times.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

(...)

It takes a remarkable artist to be able to come up with such a masterpiece over a relatively straightforward initial formula. Most people would've come up with a forgettable cyclic bubblegum pop or a simple formulaic pop-punk with those tools, yet Brian managed to create a work of art like that. Absolutely phenomenal.[/QUOTE]

Queen´s masterpiece!
The first time i heard TSMGO, my first thought was "This is the reason why you form a band! To produce something like this."
I wouldn´t mind be a one-hit wonder if this was my hit!

By the way Sebastian, you seem to know a lot about music theory and scales. Can you indicate a good book about music theory that comprises everything you have discussed in this topic?
I play the guitar, and i play by ear, but i find it fascinating to be able to undersand music at your level.
I´m looking for something easy to understand about scales and how they relate to each other.

This is a fantastic thread and it´s fascinating to read the replies of all who understand music at such level. Well donne!

I'm not an expert at all, I've only learnt a few things by reading and analysing, but I'm sure there are plenty of people far more qualified.

Anyway, I'd say PD's song analyses could be a good start: http://www.queensongs.info/song-analysis

By the way, PD has this to say about Bicycle Race:
"Beneath the catchy surface this song is perhaps the most complex 3-minute (3:01) pop-rock hit song ever in terms of harmony and rhythm, no less."
I don't think anyone has mentioned Bicycle Race in this topic yet. What do you think about it?

^^^ This song is just crazy. What amazes me the most with Bicycle Race is that when you listen to each instrument separately during the verses, it doesn't make much sense, but blended together : it works! And the guitar solo designed to represent two people racing against each other : brilliant!

[QUOTE] [b]Mr.QueenFan wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

(...)

It takes a remarkable artist to be able to come up with such a masterpiece over a relatively straightforward initial formula. Most people would've come up with a forgettable cyclic bubblegum pop or a simple formulaic pop-punk with those tools, yet Brian managed to create a work of art like that. Absolutely phenomenal.[/QUOTE]

Queen´s masterpiece!
The first time i heard TSMGO, my first thought was "This is the reason why you form a band! To produce something like this."
I wouldn´t mind be a one-hit wonder if this was my hit!

By the way Sebastian, you seem to know a lot about music theory and scales. Can you indicate a good book about music theory that comprises everything you have discussed in this topic?
I play the guitar, and i play by ear, but i find it fascinating to be able to undersand music at your level.
I´m looking for something easy to understand about scales and how they relate to each other.

This is a fantastic thread and it´s fascinating to read the replies of all who understand music at such level. Well donne!

[/QUOTE]

Exactly my thoughts on TSMGO and Sebastian also. I am like you Mr.QueenFan though i play the keybords.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

I'm not an expert at all, I've only learnt a few things by reading and analysing, but I'm sure there are plenty of people far more qualified.

Anyway, I'd say PD's song analyses could be a good start: http://www.queensongs.info/song-analysis .[/QUOTE]

It is indeed a great site! I will definitely be reading it. Thanks for the tip.

A great site...apart from the typo on the page header!!!