Golders Green Hippodrome Quad recording

[QUOTE] [b]Wilki Amieva wrote:[/b]
The Golders Green Hippodrome show quad mix should also be in the vaults - at least SQ-encoded, but don't expect great front/back separation.[/QUOTE]
After reading through this thread again, I noticed I missed your above post and would like to make a rather late reply.
The master copy of "In Concert" found in the BBC archives in 2001 is supposedly SQ encoded.
As far as I'm aware that Randy Newman / Queen edit was made available by the BBC for broadcast in the US only.
Despite the subsequent decoding of it using SQdecode 1.2, it still doesn't sound like proper "quad" to me.
I even tried decoding it again myself, with exactly the same result.
Are basing your front/back separation claim on that particular master?

Oh, boy...

The master copy was not actually found in 2001. The BBC just professionally digitised that tape in that particular year. I know, because I managed to get an official CD-R from the transfer.

It is definetely quad, but the front/rear separation is poor. That has nothing to do with the SQ technology capabilities, but with BBC restrictions in its use due to mandatory mono-compatibility for radio broadcasts at the time. Unfortunately, the 4-channel discrete master mix was never found.

Also, there are several processes that can alter the phase in a recording and that can render the SQ information at least partly unretrievable. If the tape was not flagged as SQ prior to the transfer and processing, it's quite easy to overlook some requirements and lose the encoded information. Do you know the lineage of your source?

Thanks for the reply.
Of course it was there in the BBC archive all the time, but they had to find it first to digitize it right? :-D
One of my sources is the same copy of that BBC Worldwide CD-R.
My understanding is there was never a quad broadcast in the UK, only that 26:24 edit made for US broadcast.
If that was the case then surely any BBC broadcast compatibility restrictions would not apply?
In any event I still find that edited transfer to be devoid of any real quad separation, via software or external hardware.
http://i.ibb.co/GCNmDZn/Image1.png

The mix must be done according to BBC standards. Where the suits define it's going to be broadcast is not relevant.

Also the BBC Worldwide CD-R disc is labelled CN2073, not followed by the all important /SQ.

Nice information guys!

Now. Shall we stir the pot and get everyone excited with talk of the Quad mix of Queen (debut) that never got released?

I've checked the picture you provided, it looks very similar to my quad decoding of Son And Daughter from the original BBC CD-R.

As you said, that CD is just labeled as 'CN 2073'. That means nothing, really. As far as I know, none of the CDs in the series was labelled "/SQ" as the LPs were, irrespective of the masters being SQ-encoded or not. But -come to think about it- what would be the use of such a distinction? These CD-Rs are for archival purposes, not for broadcasting.

Anyway, we already know this particular edit of the show was done over the SQ-encoded master. But, if you want more proof, you can analyse the weird phase distribution in the original 2-channel files. There's something very odd there, and -being a professional surround sound engineer-, I cannot find other explanation that would fit as good as SQ informationb being contained therein.

All this has left me quite puzzled. I shall go back to those audio files again...

I would expect an archival copy to retain the SQ labeling, despite the fact that it is not intended for broadcast.
Even if it is identical to the SQ broadcast that went out in the states, it sounds unlike any other BBC SQ encoded transfer I have ever heard.
Have you tried decoding from the complete master reel copy rather than this edit?

Yes, despite the fact that the complete master reel is clearly not SQ encoded.

The master reel is not SQ encoded?

I mean the full one that's been around for ages - it is not.

I'm not so sure the full "master" reel would have been encoded to SQ anyway.
Wasn't the BBC using CD4 and QS encoding around 1973?

I tried decoding On Air Golders Green, and also the pro studio master of BBC Session 6 with SQdecode.
Interesting to note is the experimental -90 degree phase shift option that can be used before decoding.
I'm thinking that might cause some sort of weird phase distribution though :-D

Interesting read:
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1974-29.pdf

I'm editing this on a mobile phone and it's a nightmare!

This is a VERY good read, Kurgan! Thanks. It shall be interesting to check what the BBC thought about mono-compatibility of quad matrices.

It may transpire that the full 4 channel master reel was never actually transferred with quad encoding.
It might be just sitting in the vault waiting for somebody to do just that.
After all, the only BBC broadcast in the UK (which also featured Peter Skellern) was not in quad.
http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/b134dc25eaba4a7fab2fdba5feeb13d4

I believe the SQ encoding on the short edit used for the US broadcast a few years later was possibly flawed in some way.