News of the world 40 in 2017: will there be a release?

So why if you think this is actually workable material has it not been done? And please don't tell me it;s because of Adam... that is nonesense, Queen has ALWAYS been a band that looks to make as much profit as humanly possible, so given that they will have had thousands of fans TELLING them what they want over the years, why then would they choose not to do it when theres money to be made?

I will say what you've posted there Seb is probably only really of interest to the hardcore fans, so that would limit the profit considerably, your average fan is not going to want half finished versions, only the real hardcore and look at the numbers on here that actually visit and post... not many, not enough to warrant a major release of outtakes.

Besides I say it goes against the core brand values of Queen, they were perfectionist and really didnt want you hearing mistakes and outtakes, now that may have slight mellowed now but at it's heart I think they still dont want work in progress out there.

At the end of the day, they are not stupid, and they are financially very very savvy, despite what 10-20 people on here might eagerly want, they know the cost of producing something like this and the returns, and I just dont think the numbers add up. The time to do that stuff was 5-10 years after MIH when the public were screaming for more Queen, now I think theres less and less of a market for this. But hey if they did I'd be first in line to buy it, but I doubt that the que would be that long? what was the market for Deep cuts? I hope we do eventually get some sort of anthology with outtakes, but I think that will be literally the last thing they release and probably just at the point when Roger and Brian can no longer work in a studio

I always wondered what the noise after the first bom bom dah on WWRY is. Sounds like a groan.

[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]

So why if you think this is actually workable material has it not been done?
[/QUOTE]

Because the powers that be probably don't want to. And that's absolutely fine - they can do whatever they want. But so can we - and that includes saying that, in my case, I would really love such a release. I'm not saying they 'must' or 'should' do that, I'm saying they 'could' and I would love it if they did.

[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]

And please don't tell me it;s because of Adam...
[/QUOTE]

It's certainly not - if they hadn't teamed up with him, chances are those outtakes still wouldn't have been released. So he's not a factor in that case.

[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]

Queen has ALWAYS been a band that looks to make as much profit as humanly possible ... why then would they choose not to do it when theres money to be made?
[/QUOTE]

Because they've ALWAYS been a brand that couldn't care less about what fans want. And that's absolutely fine - they don't owe anyone anything. They're entitled to do what they want, but so are we - and if anyone here or anywhere else wants to say 'wouldn't it be nice if they released so and so?' then there's nothing wrong with that.

[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]

your average fan is not going to want half finished versions
[/QUOTE]

So? That didn't stop class acts such as The Beatles and Pink Floyd from releasing outtakes. If Queen are in the same league (they are), then there's also a market for that - even if that meant only releasing outtakes of the 'Greatest Hits' material. That'd be better than nothing.

[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]

look at the numbers on here that actually visit and post... not many
[/QUOTE]

There could be plenty of reasons for that. Even if that were the case and only those who visit QZ were in capacity of buying those records, there's something called marketing - with some minimum effort, QPL could issue something like the deluxe version I described (or something way, way better than that - I've no idea what sort of treasures they might have in the archives) and get the public's attention. The Beatles did it, The Floyd did it ... if Queen are in the same league (they are), they could also do it and they could also profit from it. I'm not saying they 'should' or 'must', I'm just saying they 'could' and that 'would' be fantastic.

[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]

not enough to warrant a major release of outtakes.
[/QUOTE]

How about a minor release? It wouldn't cost them much to put those things on iTunes and have people download them for a quid each. That would save them the costs of actually producing thousands of CD's and booklets which might end up in the skip - though, personally, I still think they could sell those too, at least as a limited edition.

[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]

Besides I say it goes against the core brand values of Queen, they were perfectionist and really didnt want you hearing mistakes and outtakes...
[/QUOTE]

That 'perfectionists' argument is a bit misleading IMO: sure, they meant for stuff to be excellent, but they weren't as anal as they're usually described. Not in vain, there are some mistakes on their released records, and that, again, is absolutely fine. I'd say the core brand values of Queen are not about perfectionism (which doesn't mean they crave mediocrity, not at all - remember B/W, greyscale, colours...) but, as you said, about making money.

Considering even 'Mr Bad Guy' and 'Barcelona' got that outtakes treatment, I find it disappointing that Queen albums haven't so far (and probably won't ever). Not 'I wanna boycott Maylor' disappointing, not 'I shall go on a killing spree' disappointing, just 'wouldn't it be nice if there were outtakes out there? It's a shame that's not the case!' disappointing.

[QUOTE] [b]dysan wrote:[/b]

I always wondered what the noise after the first bom bom dah on WWRY is. Sounds like a groan.[/QUOTE]

From the doctor's mouth (well... keyboard, technically) on his website in 2004:

'[That sound] is the tail end of me counting the stamps and claps in, that fateful day so long ago in Wessex Studios in North London. I don't know if I've described it before but I got into applying loads of different delays, not multiples of each other - prime numbers. A lot of these got applied to the original count, plus the final long delay was from one 'boom boom crack' to the next. So you hear 'four' delayed into the track in a kind of multiple echo.'

It definitely would have been nice even just for the few hard core fans, but they will never go out of there way to do something like that, its all about money. Look at the previous few releases, they could have included more stuff in the box set versions but they didn't, it definitely seems they are doing it on purpose,
I don't blame AL(even though I can't stand him), I blame BM and RT for doing this. They only care about selling out concerts now, it's the most profit making, it's their right to do whatever they want, it's just the bullsh_t they are saying annoys me lately.

I think a good chunk of that is reasonable to assume yes Seb, but I would take issue with a few things, firstly " because the powers that be don't want to" but you have to ask why? if as you say there's a market? why not do it? they never shy away from profit, they know some folk out there want it, I assume Greg Brooks at least will have told them that... so why not?
One can only assume two things, firstly there isn't actually as much as you think in the archives and doing it would be impossible, or secondly Roger and Brian don't want to do it, again I come back to why? too much hassle? too much time working on old stuff they are no longer interested in? I still say it would have been done, hell they could have got someone else to put 95% of it together without them stepping into the studio and getting their hands dirty had they wanted to, so I'm just not convinced there is anything like the amount in the vaults as you assume.

Secondly I would take slight issue with "Because they've ALWAYS been a brand that couldn't care less about what fans want" Really?? well producing The Works would seem to say that's not true, Hot Space was slammed at the time, and they could have gone on to produce other more diverse albums, but no they did what fans wanted and produced a core Queen style album, secondly they do tend to do want a lot of people want, it's just that hardcore fans (again the few really hardcore fan that there are) say different. I'd say their history says they've dared to be different and when it's worked they've gone with it, when it didnt and the fans didnt want it they scrapped it and moved on, Hot Space, being the biggest example. hardcore fans weren't too keen with the WWRY show, but it lasted 12 years so the average fan wanted it, the Madness show lasted a few weeks... as have a million other west end shows based on bands. I kind of struggle to see many occassions when they've gone against fans wishes except and anthology, and a 70's DVD release... but even that in their eyes they've done with Rainbow, the fact they haven't released Houston or Earls Court is maybe irrelevant

I just don't see a meeting taking place with Brian Roger and Jim sitting down and disguarding any information about what fans want unless there's a bloody good reason, and it's that reason that usually comes back to the hardcore material isnt there in sufficient quantity or quality, or the returns fall short of the outlay... its just business, they dont sit there trying to make up things the general public arent going to buy for the hell of it, each product will have enough research behind it to know if it will sell.

Your average Queen fan just wants to see them play live given that many of the newer fans never got to see Freddie, it's the next best thing.

Togg, do you seriously believe there isn't enough material? FM had only 2 albums and had tons in the box set.
They are milking it as much as they can and since they are still selling out concerts its a long way to go, until they need the
old fans again.

[QUOTE] [b]Sebastian wrote:[/b]

A great NotW anthology could be made just by using, for instance:

- Sleeping on the Sidewalk: The famous first-take from which Brian made up the song, or discarded ones before he realised the first had been the best version.[/QUOTE]

It's just not going to happen. They don't want the public to know how many punch-ins there were. For this same reason, the public will never get a full breakdown of what shows made up Live Killers - some songs come from 4 and 5 nights, never mind the studio overdubs. They are protecting their legacy as they always have.

Queen have always been protective of their creative process. Even in interviews in the 70s, they said a whole lot while saying a whole lot of nothing. We know so little about it compared to The Beatles, for example. We know the dates of virtually every take of every Beatles song, and have access to the audio of hundreds of hours of them. And they just released two full discs of Sgt Pepper outtakes.

Queen, by contrast, are all about the final product. Always has been, always will be. We should count our blessings that they put out the dozen tracks they did on the 2011 remasters (ignoring the fact that guide vocals were anachronistically blended with final instrumental takes for many of them), and the few other things that trickle down to collectors. There won't be much more - you can bet your life.

I want a mini-robot-sculpture. Also Houston '77 would be great on video.

[QUOTE] [b]RS_Protos wrote:[/b]

Togg, do you seriously believe there isn't enough material? FM had only 2 albums and had tons in the box set.
They are milking it as much as they can and since they are still selling out concerts its a long way to go, until they need the
old fans again.[/QUOTE]


I don't think there is as much as we think, and I don't think what is in there is viewed as material that could be turned into something usable, and the only reason I say that is because I feel they would have done much more with it if there was.

I'm sure there are boxes and boxes of bits... but three false starts and then a wrong note is not going to be viewed as something they think the public will want to pay for.
And as I say I think I agree it's always been about the fonal product

Any recording work I've ever done in the past, I've only ever wanted people to hear the final version, not all the mistakes I made getting it to that point... So I do understand why they might feel it takes away from the final finished track if we hear Freddie screw up the vocal 10 times beforehand.

Regarding Live Killers I never understood that? why when they were always an amazing band live did they feel the need to cobble together tracks out of dozens of nights... there was no need

[QUOTE] [b]Togg wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]RS_Protos wrote:[/b]

Togg, do you seriously believe there isn't enough material? FM had only 2 albums and had tons in the box set.
They are milking it as much as they can and since they are still selling out concerts its a long way to go, until they need the
old fans again.[/QUOTE]


I don't think there is as much as we think, and I don't think what is in there is viewed as material that could be turned into something usable, and the only reason I say that is because I feel they would have done much more with it if there was.

I'm sure there are boxes and boxes of bits... but three false starts and then a wrong note is not going to be viewed as something they think the public will want to pay for.
And as I say I think I agree it's always been about the fonal product

Any recording work I've ever done in the past, I've only ever wanted people to hear the final version, not all the mistakes I made getting it to that point... So I do understand why they might feel it takes away from the final finished track if we hear Freddie screw up the vocal 10 times beforehand.

Regarding Live Killers I never understood that? why when they were always an amazing band live did they feel the need to cobble together tracks out of dozens of nights... there was no need


[/QUOTE]
About the studiorecordings: I am sure there's loads of truly fantastic stuff in the archives. Even if they choose not include mistakes there are surely plenty of alternate takes which are amazing. The demo's from Bad Guy and Barcelona for example offer insight in how truly briljant FM's voice really was. I can't imagine thos Queen demos not being as exciting as those solo demos.

I don't think that the problem is that it are "bad" outtakes, it is - as The Real Wizard says - just a matter of band policy. They do not want to give away the secrets of the creation of those masterpieces. They want to keep the mystique, I guess.

I think that's a strong possibilty yes, I just feel they would have emptied the vault by now if they were EVER going to and made the most of it while there were calls for it, there is literally no point in leaving it until Queen as a functioning band is no more because by that time many of the potential market may have moved on as well.... I mean maybe like the Beatles 50 years after they stop someone will dig it out but I cant see it happening now while Brian and Roger are still around

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]

It's just not going to happen...[/QUOTE]

Certainly! But, then again, that's why my point is neither 'they "must" do it' nor 'they "should" do it,' but 'wouldn't it be nice if they did? It's a shame that's not the case!'

I admit, however, that I'm not as pessimistic. Back in 2013, the overwhelming majority of us assumed that:

- 'Master-Stroke' had never been played live.
- Even if it had, they would never ever release it.

Same for, say, piano versions of 'Football Fight' and 'The Kiss' back in 2010, or 'Mad the Swine' back in 1990... so, theoretically, there could be some stuff that we now either don't know exists or think will never see the light of day and, sooner or later, we'll be surprised. Granted, it won't be *everything* we're dreaming of, it might be marred by AutoTune (as TFFMS was), it might include liner notes errors (as is often the case with QPL releases), but it may happen, at least partially.

I still believe it's because they are still selling out, lot of profits still coming in. Once it goes down lots of things change.

I don't think it's worthwhile for a release of the same old stuff. The things that should be released which are Greatest Video Hits and a DVD/Blu Ray covering the Innuendo period has been ignored for 15 years.

News of the world stuff for example Bob Harris documentary would be nice