Thor,
You didn't...you were expressing how you felt...as you have the right to do. It's all good...
I can't remember if you mentioned this before, but did you and your friends ever spend Thanksgiving with Freddie? For obvious reasons, Thanksgiving would not be an important holiday for him, yet I can see Freddie having a big feast for his friends who might not be close to their homes. Turkey with all the trimmings. :)
Thread
Posts in chronological order
Thor, I really admire your ability to remain close friends with Brandon. That's very special. It's not something I've been able to do with my ex, nor do I want to. We share our sons and that's it. We are cordial, but I need no more. Yet I find myself oddly wishing I could have achieved what you have with Brandon. Well done.
Rainbow, your post about Mary and Garden Lodge is so well thought out, and so respectful. I agree with everything you said. I don't want to say any more on the topic because I want to see this thread remain as peaceful and welcoming as it has been so far and I don't want to add to any arguments. I felt it important to let Rainbow know her post was appreciated. It's diplomatic, a skill I often lack.
Katydyd5,
Thank you!
Thank you!
Oh geez, now I feel like I was a part of a hiccup on this thread lol. Well, let me just say I still adore Thor for being open to talking with us and reading back on it, I think there could have just been a misunderstanding from one side or another. I don't think anyone here has been disrespectful on the Mary topic but I agree with everyone else that it should end here. I sure didn't mean to start a fire with my expression my opinion and I know Thor didn't either.
Everything's ok. We're all still cool.
But I too would like to know if Freddie took part in thanksgiving celebrations while he was in America, Thor
Everything's ok. We're all still cool.
But I too would like to know if Freddie took part in thanksgiving celebrations while he was in America, Thor
Ok so I did write a long post, but this conversation is apparently over lol. I will say this though:
I am kind of disappointed that there are no designated Queen-related places to visit in London and that the fan club gave up on applying for a Freddie a statue in Kensington. Holland Park would be a great place in my opinion but maybe they’re just too snobby in the Royal Borough! They shouldn't have given up.
I wish RBKC council would allow the wall (if it is indeed them telling Mary to sort it out and not her choice). Amy Winehouse has a statue in Camden Town and her career wasn’t nearly as long as Freddie’s and in my opinion, she wasn’t even in his league.
When you go to Liverpool, there is The Beatles stuff everywhere. They have a museum. They also have three shops, not just in Liverpool, but Abbey Road in London. I know The Beatles had a bigger cultural impact than Queen, but they’re still considered one of our greats. They’re inescapable. So for Freddie to have nothing more than a few plaques in Feltham, which is well off the beaten track for tourists, it feels a bit shitty. Feltham’s not even catered for by the Tube, so no one goes there!
There's nothing for Freddie in the UK, nothing!
I am kind of disappointed that there are no designated Queen-related places to visit in London and that the fan club gave up on applying for a Freddie a statue in Kensington. Holland Park would be a great place in my opinion but maybe they’re just too snobby in the Royal Borough! They shouldn't have given up.
I wish RBKC council would allow the wall (if it is indeed them telling Mary to sort it out and not her choice). Amy Winehouse has a statue in Camden Town and her career wasn’t nearly as long as Freddie’s and in my opinion, she wasn’t even in his league.
When you go to Liverpool, there is The Beatles stuff everywhere. They have a museum. They also have three shops, not just in Liverpool, but Abbey Road in London. I know The Beatles had a bigger cultural impact than Queen, but they’re still considered one of our greats. They’re inescapable. So for Freddie to have nothing more than a few plaques in Feltham, which is well off the beaten track for tourists, it feels a bit shitty. Feltham’s not even catered for by the Tube, so no one goes there!
There's nothing for Freddie in the UK, nothing!
Also one more thing...
The recent news articles were contradictory, saying neighbours had complained, yet the residents they interviewed expressed either liking or indifference for the wall. Which is it, journalists?
I know for a fact (because it's public domain) that Mary has had beef with neighbours in the street, complaining about their ugly homes and writing snotty toned letters to RBKC trying to block people's planning permission, including that of actress Diana Rigg who lives one street away.
If neighbours have complained about the wall, perhaps it's for revenge? Just a thought!
The recent news articles were contradictory, saying neighbours had complained, yet the residents they interviewed expressed either liking or indifference for the wall. Which is it, journalists?
I know for a fact (because it's public domain) that Mary has had beef with neighbours in the street, complaining about their ugly homes and writing snotty toned letters to RBKC trying to block people's planning permission, including that of actress Diana Rigg who lives one street away.
If neighbours have complained about the wall, perhaps it's for revenge? Just a thought!
Oh. A lot's gone on here while I've been away and I haven't read it yet everyone, so forgive me if this is completely out of sync.
At work, so will come back and read and catch up...
But a question occurred so thought I'd post while I remember.
Thor and Lee (if you get to read this anytime), Freddie mentioned once in an interview that he was 'petrified of being alone.' I think he used the word petrified, or it could have been terrified...it was only a snippet of an interview. Did he ever talk about this and what it was about? It's always puzzled me because I can't write or do anything remotely creative when I'm around people, I need complete quiet.....and then in another interview Freddie says he has to lock himself away to write....he's a puzzle, lol.
At work, so will come back and read and catch up...
But a question occurred so thought I'd post while I remember.
Thor and Lee (if you get to read this anytime), Freddie mentioned once in an interview that he was 'petrified of being alone.' I think he used the word petrified, or it could have been terrified...it was only a snippet of an interview. Did he ever talk about this and what it was about? It's always puzzled me because I can't write or do anything remotely creative when I'm around people, I need complete quiet.....and then in another interview Freddie says he has to lock himself away to write....he's a puzzle, lol.
Thor,
I see a lot of discussion in the meantime.
It's really lovely story that Brendon and you are friends after love.
Of course,it's possible that after love two person remain in a good friendship.
But I think it depends on their characters,feelings and interests.
About house I think you're both right,Villiers and you.
My opinion is that when Mary became the owner of the house she was given the absolute right to do what she wanted with her property.
But she got that house thanks to Freddie and I don't think it's fair that this house has nothing to do with him now.
I have nothing against her, but she isn't even nice to me.If it was true that Freddie actually said that Jim,Joe and Peter could stay in the house as long as they wanted and that she promised Freddie while he was alive, why was not was so?
I believe that they wouldn't stay forever in the house, sooner or later they would leave the house.
Of course I didn't know all these people but I can have my own opinion.
I don't think that is an argument if people think differently, I like to hear different opinions about everything.
And what is the truth...As Fox Mulder says "the truth is out there."
______________________
I will not bother all of you with my comments but I will continue to read thread.
I see a lot of discussion in the meantime.
It's really lovely story that Brendon and you are friends after love.
Of course,it's possible that after love two person remain in a good friendship.
But I think it depends on their characters,feelings and interests.
About house I think you're both right,Villiers and you.
My opinion is that when Mary became the owner of the house she was given the absolute right to do what she wanted with her property.
But she got that house thanks to Freddie and I don't think it's fair that this house has nothing to do with him now.
I have nothing against her, but she isn't even nice to me.If it was true that Freddie actually said that Jim,Joe and Peter could stay in the house as long as they wanted and that she promised Freddie while he was alive, why was not was so?
I believe that they wouldn't stay forever in the house, sooner or later they would leave the house.
Of course I didn't know all these people but I can have my own opinion.
I don't think that is an argument if people think differently, I like to hear different opinions about everything.
And what is the truth...As Fox Mulder says "the truth is out there."
______________________
I will not bother all of you with my comments but I will continue to read thread.
Ok I'm not Thor or Lee, but can I add to this? It seems that feeling alone was a lifelong problem for Freddie. When he was with his first girlfriend before Mary, she kind of worked out he wasn't into her and that really, his holding onto her was merely a fear of being alone. When the time came for her to dump him, he said 'but I don't want to be alone.' He was clearly gay but settling for a woman because of his fear.
Then later there is a quote supposedly from Mary...I say supposedly because it's from that ghastly Lesley Ann Jones book and unsourced: that Freddie had attachment issues and his fear of being alone stemmed from his being effectively abandoned at boarding school aged just 8. She blamed his parents.
Whether she said it or not, it makes sense and ties in with what Peter Freestone said about him: That he had to have someone with him most of the time, even in the bathroom. Only occasionally was he alone - when he needed to think in the garden or the studio.
Peter also said he didn't often sit down with people on a one-to-one basis and Freddie himself admitted he couldn't have a normal one-to-one relationship with an individual. Eventually he got around this problem by conducting his Jim Hutton relationship with Joe and Peter around 100% of the time. He told David Wigg in a 1987 interview that it's the only way he could make a relationship work. A relationship with an individual was too much for him to cope with so he had to be surrounded.
It seemed like an almost pathological fear of being alone. I wonder if he had some major abandonment issues. It all fits, amirite?
Then later there is a quote supposedly from Mary...I say supposedly because it's from that ghastly Lesley Ann Jones book and unsourced: that Freddie had attachment issues and his fear of being alone stemmed from his being effectively abandoned at boarding school aged just 8. She blamed his parents.
Whether she said it or not, it makes sense and ties in with what Peter Freestone said about him: That he had to have someone with him most of the time, even in the bathroom. Only occasionally was he alone - when he needed to think in the garden or the studio.
Peter also said he didn't often sit down with people on a one-to-one basis and Freddie himself admitted he couldn't have a normal one-to-one relationship with an individual. Eventually he got around this problem by conducting his Jim Hutton relationship with Joe and Peter around 100% of the time. He told David Wigg in a 1987 interview that it's the only way he could make a relationship work. A relationship with an individual was too much for him to cope with so he had to be surrounded.
It seemed like an almost pathological fear of being alone. I wonder if he had some major abandonment issues. It all fits, amirite?
The Squirrelly One wrote:
Hello all, just thought I'd share this with you.
It's been a few years since I have last read Jim's book and having known his family personally, it makes it a little harder to get through but seeing as Nov 24th is coming up, I decided to pick it up again. I just thought I'd share a moment in it that got me choked up.
Toward the end of his life, Freddie spent nearly all his time at home. Jim mentions a special evening where he and Freddie were cuddled up watching a movie and the lovers on the screen turn to each other and say "We'll always be together". Just then, Freddie turned to Jim and said "We'll always be together, won't we?" And Jim said he felt a lump in his throat because as much as he wished it to be true, deep down he knew Freddie didnt have much longer. He held him tighter and they kept watching the movie. That was shortly before Freddie was bedridden. And another sweet moment after Freddie was bedridden, when he told Jim that he would like to see his beloved paintings. Jim carried him downstairs and switched the lights on over the artwork one by one and Freddie got to sit there and take in the beauty one last time.
I'll never understand why so many 'fans' who never even knew Jim personally hate him so much. He never did anything to Freddie but take care of him. He never sold him out, used him or lied about him. People take offense to his book, but they fail to realise Mr.Freestone also wrote some very detailed books on Freddie's personal life that included some rather "R-rated" material. I'm not sure why one is knocked while the other is praised. I think both men were kind and both were honest in their books.
Jim's is a book that really gets to your emotions at the end. If you're looking for detailed information on Queen music or tour dates, it's not for you. But if you're interested in seeing what Freddie was like from the mid 1980s on, I do recommend it. The end is very hard to read, but it's honest and I can't help but feel sad for Joe, Jim and Peter. All 3 had the sweetest hearts for caring for him as well as they did.
Thor do any of your friends do anything in his memory every year or when you guys get together? A drink in his memory, perhaps? I think I'll have a nice drink on the 24th and enjoy a Queen record or 2.
TSO, I didn't realise that there is hatred towards Jim. But then I'm not really plugged in to the fanbase, I've only been on here a couple of months.
I've not read either book because I have heard both are sordid and exploitative, you seem to disagree. Maybe I will reconsider when I have finished what I'm reading.
Don't know if I've ever told this one but I met a roadie for I think it was Marillion. He described an encounter with Freddie before a tour (Magic tour I guess?) when Fred was in full on diva mode and was thoroughly unpleasant to him before a gig (by his own admission her could be 'a monster'). Although not exactly pleased he wasn't surprised and thought no more of it. Anyway 6 months or so later he received a case of champagne delivered to him, the card read "Sorry for being a cunt, not myself lately dear. Freddie".
Like all anecdotes may not be true but does seem to be consistent with what we know of him.
There can be only one.
captainjory wrote:
I am assuming the media are kicking off cos it's his death anniversary this week. But she actually did this months ago; they're a bit slow...
I get it, it's her house to do what she wants with and the fans probably get a bit annoying at times...but she has also requested the wall is blurred out on Street View, which is kind of weird. It's just...a wall from which you cannot see into her property.
Hide that wall Mary...don't let people see that precious wall! -_-
Aye, longer that actually. It was already done by his birthday. I thought it very sad. Still, we know where it is. Ha! Won't stop me going there on Friday with my Bluetooth speaker and banging out a tune.
Villiers wrote:
I do not consider myself any kind of fan of Mary's, but I do feel strongly about the disregard for property. I say when it comes down to land and building property, one has to look at it in a neutral way. Not as a fan of Mary or against her, but as someone who understands the law and neighborhood rules.
Here in America, it's not legal to spray paint, carve into or mark on anyone else's property. I looked into it, and Mary could have had these fans arrested years ago and didn't do it. Its important to remember that this house is not a place where Freddie LIVES now. He will not see the markings on the walls, or the carved messages in the wood door, but his neighbors will. Keep in mind that graffiti of any kind (be it tribute or not) is considered an eyesore to real estate brokers and cities. Meaning the value of not only Garden Lodge, but those homes AROUND Garden Lodge goes down because of it. So in the end, it's not legal and it damages the value of the neighborhood. Not to mention she had to get the door (at least partially) replaced and fixed hundreds of times already thanks to those who felt the need to dig knives into it to leave a message. Thanks to the tribute messages left by fans, some of the original parts of the wall and door that Freddie had installed are now covered or gone completely. Fans were actually breaking down this home he loved so much.
We will never know for sure what Freddie thought of fans doing that to the walls for so many years, but considering Garden Lodge was once described by Peter Freestone as being the "one real love of Freddie's life. His sanctuary to escape fame and cameras.", I doubt he would be supportive of fans carving into the wood and leaving sharpie messages on the walls.
There was a time when Mary even had clear plastic over the walls to stop people from writing on it, but still allowed them to leave paper notes under the plastic for him. People carved into the plastic, the door, AND wrote over it. Sorry, but there comes a point when you have to step back and change your course of action when people won't stop.
If you've seen my past comments, you know I'm not exactly fond of Mary but I have never understood the issue some fans take with her trying to get them to stop writing on the walls. I have seen his will online and I saw nothing on it that came close to him requesting (or even suggesting he might be ok with) people covering the walls in graffiti and carvings. Had it been me, I would have had people arrested years ago.
Freddie has a statue in Switzerland, and there are plenty of other Freddie and Queen related places to visit around England to pay ones respects. There is no reason for anyone to need to deface private property to show their appreciation. I'm sure they mean well, but it's doing more damage than it is good.
It's a special place for Queen fans. I've written my tributes on the wall and I will leave a can of Heineken at the door this Friday. I don't apologise.
She's being unnecessarily graceless.
On the subject of Mary it's not being homophobic or bi-washing Fred by saying that Mary was a love of his life. At a time she was. His words and subsequent actions always spoke fondly of her. Personally got no interest in the woman or his male lovers. The man, his music and actually his friends are of more interest not what his preferences were in the satin kingdom. That he was a gay man in a macho world and sadly homophobic world is part of what makes him unique, not his sexuality itself.
Oh to be seeing him in his pomp next Friday!
thundergod wrote:
Oh Villiers,
I really have to disagree with you unfortunately. That home is the enduring legacy of Freddie Mercury. Why didn't
Mary sell it or let it be turned into the British version of Elvis's "Graceland". She has enough money to buy another place
that is not Freddie related and where she would not have to be "bothered" by fans whose admirations made her
rich. I have no sympathy for the real estate issues of the neighborhood. I think Freddie is way more important
than real estate. Lee has a picture of that beautiful wall when all the so called "graffiti" was admired by fans from
around the world. I am actually a little surprisedand disturbed by your comments on this matter.
In the great man's word "And there we have it".
Spot on dude, spot the very fuck on.
thundergod wrote:
Villiers, I still don't understand why turning the Garden Lodge into a memorial would be so awful. If Freddie did tell this to Peter,
Freddie probably did not know what an effect this would have on his post-mortem popularity. Look at all of yourselves, still interested
in Freddie so many years after his death. I don't want to argue with you Villiers, so I will apologize and hope we can rekindle our
fond relationship. No one winning and no one losing the argument, if that's ok with you. As they say on TV we "agreeing to disagree."
I agree. This is Freddie Mercury we're talking about here. Freddie Mercury. Not some two bob no-mark talentless arse clown who's own mother wouldn't recognize him.
Hope Mary is in on Friday and comes to tell me off ;-)