Freddy darling, That was me that said she was a sociapath.I thought you were referring to recent activity.I modified my behavior on this thread so when approaching this subject matter it wouldnt offend anyone.But I'm gonna have to say what she has done isn't normal at all.Take from it what you want.stop making excuses for her.Noone made them for Freddie .If I were the poor guy I would've stayed away from London as much as possible.She was always like a bit of a leech .She was what she accused his friends of.Even Brian defends her and she talks terrible about them saying they are jealous of her.What is there to be jealous of.I see a woman that could have had a happy life instead she held on to a man that couldnt provide that for her.Now she is old and alone bitter and those years havent been kind to her it shows.Things could have been so different for both of them without the guilt that was put there.
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CHEVYMAN
I pity her too, because I don´t think she has a very happy life. I think she hoped Freddie would one day decide to settle down and marry and have kids (like Elton John) and she wanted to stay around fot this case. It never happened and she became bitter. And she was always unfriendly to his gay friends because in her eyes they were the reason he wasn´t with her. It is not healthy and it is not right but some tiny part of my personality understands her behaviour.
Remember she had her first child in her 40´s, she got pregnant after he was diagnosed - I would say that was for her the clear indication there is no hope she will have kinds with him one day and she decided to have them with somebody else. But she waited and hoped for it the whole time until 1987. I´m pretty sure she is not a very happy woman with all the money and big house. She didn´t won at the end.
EDIT: Oh, I see you have written something very similar at the same time :)
I pity her too, because I don´t think she has a very happy life. I think she hoped Freddie would one day decide to settle down and marry and have kids (like Elton John) and she wanted to stay around fot this case. It never happened and she became bitter. And she was always unfriendly to his gay friends because in her eyes they were the reason he wasn´t with her. It is not healthy and it is not right but some tiny part of my personality understands her behaviour.
Remember she had her first child in her 40´s, she got pregnant after he was diagnosed - I would say that was for her the clear indication there is no hope she will have kinds with him one day and she decided to have them with somebody else. But she waited and hoped for it the whole time until 1987. I´m pretty sure she is not a very happy woman with all the money and big house. She didn´t won at the end.
EDIT: Oh, I see you have written something very similar at the same time :)
> Jim was protective of Freddie and I am sure he would
> have read it before it was printed and got to edit it.
@Perk, I can't say if Jim had read the book before it was printed, but Jim certainly didn't edit anything, according to Tim Wapshott (the journalist who helped Jim write the book).
Interviewer: How involved was Jim in the editing process?
Tim Wapshott: Not at all. Jim was not a writer.
You can read the whole interview with Tim Wapshott here (first you will see a Russian translation, but scroll down and you will see the English original):
https://vk.com/@queenrocks-ekskluzivnoe-intervu-s-soavtorom-knigi-hattona-merkuri-i-ya
> have read it before it was printed and got to edit it.
@Perk, I can't say if Jim had read the book before it was printed, but Jim certainly didn't edit anything, according to Tim Wapshott (the journalist who helped Jim write the book).
Interviewer: How involved was Jim in the editing process?
Tim Wapshott: Not at all. Jim was not a writer.
You can read the whole interview with Tim Wapshott here (first you will see a Russian translation, but scroll down and you will see the English original):
https://vk.com/@queenrocks-ekskluzivnoe-intervu-s-soavtorom-knigi-hattona-merkuri-i-ya
Dustin, I totally get what you're saying. I just believe there was *something* there more than just guilt and obligation. If that were the case, I think there would have been more resentment evident on Freddie's part (who wouldn't resent someone you're just keeping around due to guilt and obligation?) and I haven't seen evidence of resentment.
No, I don't think he was in love with her. I don't think she was the kind of person he liked to hang around and have fun with (she strikes me as kind of dull). I think there was some guilt and obligation involved. But I also think there was some genuine caring and that he maybe saw her as a kind of sister or supportive relative. Not someone you have to spend every moment with, and one you can go a long time without seeing, but still like to know is there for you.
I'm fascinated with this subject because it's the one relationship of Freddie's I truly have a hard time getting a handle on. I do think the above is what I see from Freddie's side. I have a hard time getting a grip on what Mary's side was. I think she cared about him but I also think she had an unhealthy obsession. She never really moved on and built a life for herself after they broke up as a couple. His life became her life and that's unhealthy, and probably led to some strange behavior on her part.
No, I don't think he was in love with her. I don't think she was the kind of person he liked to hang around and have fun with (she strikes me as kind of dull). I think there was some guilt and obligation involved. But I also think there was some genuine caring and that he maybe saw her as a kind of sister or supportive relative. Not someone you have to spend every moment with, and one you can go a long time without seeing, but still like to know is there for you.
I'm fascinated with this subject because it's the one relationship of Freddie's I truly have a hard time getting a handle on. I do think the above is what I see from Freddie's side. I have a hard time getting a grip on what Mary's side was. I think she cared about him but I also think she had an unhealthy obsession. She never really moved on and built a life for herself after they broke up as a couple. His life became her life and that's unhealthy, and probably led to some strange behavior on her part.
Ren, exactly
I feel the same way about the Mary subject. It's a really interesting part of his life and it's impossible to ignore since QP want so desperately to shove the false narrative down our throats.
I feel the same way about the Mary subject. It's a really interesting part of his life and it's impossible to ignore since QP want so desperately to shove the false narrative down our throats.
> Anyone know about this extra teeth thing it’s been bugging
> me for a while since I read it on Peter Freestone’s blog.
@Perk, I don't really know, I have read different accounts about this and they haven't made it clear to me. I personally can see that his upper teeth are just big and he had an overbite. As for his lower teeth, we can't see them clearly, but here is a still from a video, you can see that his canines (?) protrude.
> me for a while since I read it on Peter Freestone’s blog.
@Perk, I don't really know, I have read different accounts about this and they haven't made it clear to me. I personally can see that his upper teeth are just big and he had an overbite. As for his lower teeth, we can't see them clearly, but here is a still from a video, you can see that his canines (?) protrude.
Dustin, Finally somebody that agrees with me.It also makes me wonder why they never included Freddie's very early college girlfriend of one year Rosemary Pearson to me that would be a crucial person to his early years just as important as Mary if not more.It would clearly be proof that he was gay she broke things off because of it and moved on.But hell no they didnt include her in their story plot.I have respect for her because even if she didnt want too she let him go.She knew he would eventually leave her to explore with who he was inside and she gave him up so he could do this.
Dustin, I totally get what you're saying. I just believe there was *something* there more than just guilt and obligation. If that were the case, I think there would have been more resentment evident on Freddie's part (who wouldn't resent someone you're just keeping around due to guilt and obligation?) and I haven't seen evidence of resentment.
No, I don't think he was in love with her. I don't think she was the kind of person he liked to hang around and have fun with (she strikes me as kind of dull). I think there was some guilt and obligation involved. But I also think there was some genuine caring and that he maybe saw her as a kind of sister or supportive relative. Not someone you have to spend every moment with, and one you can go a long time without seeing, but still like to know is there for you.
I'm fascinated with this subject because it's the one relationship of Freddie's I truly have a hard time getting a handle on. I do think the above is what I see from Freddie's side. I have a hard time getting a grip on what Mary's side was. I think she cared about him but I also think she had an unhealthy obsession. She never really moved on and built a life for herself after they broke up as a couple. His life became her life and that's unhealthy, and probably led to some strange behavior on her part.
Rensage I agree with all you have said above.
We can't ignore the fact that Freddie clearly adored Mary although those around him daily, Peter, Joe etc etc could see a different part of her personality . I'm pretty sure that in Peter's book he said that sometimes Freddie couldn't always see a persons faults or choose not to see them and maybe this is the case with Mary.
For me, Peter sums up Mary pretty well in his book . He said that the friendship from his point of view was based on guilt on Freddie's part and that I firmly believe. Don't forgot he was with Mary for a long time before they had that conversation. No doubt her heart was broken as she thought she would spend her life with him , marry him and probably have children. That must have weighed heavy on Freddie's mind. To me I have found that Freddie wanted to keep her in his life, he bought her a flat nearby and gave her a job at Goose Productions. In doing this I don't think either of them realized the effect this would have on their lives.
The 'I won in the end' I just don't get as I can't see what she has won. Money doesn't make for a happy life in her case and her relationships didn't last. As far as we know she is alone now. I wonder if she had her own friends outside of Freddie?
It's all very complicated and something we will never get to the bottom off.
I am glad that Jim lived happily with Freddie. I feel Freddie was very lucky to have found a man like Jim . I can tell what a good person he was just from your comments Shaun. I also like how he became friends with many fans, that shows he cared. This is clearly not something that Mary did.
Shaun I just have one thing to ask if ok as it has been on my mind
In Jim's book in mentions the serious row they had in 1990 in which he was asked by Joe and then mary to move out. Peter said in his book that there were always people around willing to whisper things to Freddie to get close to him and score points, did Jim ever mention this to you. He says in his book how hurt he was that the people in Garden Lodge seemed to want him gone.
I wonder if they had a row , which couples do, and perhaps Mary or someone else began painting Jim in a bad light encouraging Freddie to end the relationship.
No, I don't think he was in love with her. I don't think she was the kind of person he liked to hang around and have fun with (she strikes me as kind of dull). I think there was some guilt and obligation involved. But I also think there was some genuine caring and that he maybe saw her as a kind of sister or supportive relative. Not someone you have to spend every moment with, and one you can go a long time without seeing, but still like to know is there for you.
I'm fascinated with this subject because it's the one relationship of Freddie's I truly have a hard time getting a handle on. I do think the above is what I see from Freddie's side. I have a hard time getting a grip on what Mary's side was. I think she cared about him but I also think she had an unhealthy obsession. She never really moved on and built a life for herself after they broke up as a couple. His life became her life and that's unhealthy, and probably led to some strange behavior on her part.
Rensage I agree with all you have said above.
We can't ignore the fact that Freddie clearly adored Mary although those around him daily, Peter, Joe etc etc could see a different part of her personality . I'm pretty sure that in Peter's book he said that sometimes Freddie couldn't always see a persons faults or choose not to see them and maybe this is the case with Mary.
For me, Peter sums up Mary pretty well in his book . He said that the friendship from his point of view was based on guilt on Freddie's part and that I firmly believe. Don't forgot he was with Mary for a long time before they had that conversation. No doubt her heart was broken as she thought she would spend her life with him , marry him and probably have children. That must have weighed heavy on Freddie's mind. To me I have found that Freddie wanted to keep her in his life, he bought her a flat nearby and gave her a job at Goose Productions. In doing this I don't think either of them realized the effect this would have on their lives.
The 'I won in the end' I just don't get as I can't see what she has won. Money doesn't make for a happy life in her case and her relationships didn't last. As far as we know she is alone now. I wonder if she had her own friends outside of Freddie?
It's all very complicated and something we will never get to the bottom off.
I am glad that Jim lived happily with Freddie. I feel Freddie was very lucky to have found a man like Jim . I can tell what a good person he was just from your comments Shaun. I also like how he became friends with many fans, that shows he cared. This is clearly not something that Mary did.
Shaun I just have one thing to ask if ok as it has been on my mind
In Jim's book in mentions the serious row they had in 1990 in which he was asked by Joe and then mary to move out. Peter said in his book that there were always people around willing to whisper things to Freddie to get close to him and score points, did Jim ever mention this to you. He says in his book how hurt he was that the people in Garden Lodge seemed to want him gone.
I wonder if they had a row , which couples do, and perhaps Mary or someone else began painting Jim in a bad light encouraging Freddie to end the relationship.
Jim didn't mention it but Joe did. As I've said before Joe was very vocal about the issues he saw in the garden lodge and he did say it took him a long time to see Jim as something more than just another bloke Mr Mercury was dating. He said it wasn't until he saw Jim taking care of Mr Mercury at the end of his life that he understood what they meant to each other. I have to imagine before that point Jim was probably just another guy taking up room in their lives and as I've mentioned before, none of them seemed to have anything at all in common outside of Mr Mercury so I don't see Joe fighting to keep Jim in the home during those fights. Joe said there was a certain someone who did insist to Mr Mercury that Jim was disposable though. During those times of fighting and arguing as normal couples do they had the added stress of another force outside of the garden lodge telling Mr Mercury Jim was not needed. Who that was I will not say but it's not hard to guess.
that's interesting , thank you.
Seems to me that Jim put up with an awful lot in his time with Freddie but looking at Freddie's history with men , I guess it's to be expected that they thought he would come and go like the others. I was left with a similar feeling from Peter after reading his book although give him his due, he did say that after visiting Jim in his new home 'it was proof to me, if proof was needed, that Jim and Freddie had enjoyed a unique relationship '
I find it so weird that in all the time Jim lived there, they never knew this. It is all very strange and I feel for Jim as it appears Freddie did all the chasing to start with.
Did he ever mention Winnie? that made me so cross . I felt it so angry that Jim was used to make Winnie jealous.
I shouldn't say this but part of me almost wishes Jim hadn't met Freddie as I'm sure his life would have been a lot more simple.
Seems to me that Jim put up with an awful lot in his time with Freddie but looking at Freddie's history with men , I guess it's to be expected that they thought he would come and go like the others. I was left with a similar feeling from Peter after reading his book although give him his due, he did say that after visiting Jim in his new home 'it was proof to me, if proof was needed, that Jim and Freddie had enjoyed a unique relationship '
I find it so weird that in all the time Jim lived there, they never knew this. It is all very strange and I feel for Jim as it appears Freddie did all the chasing to start with.
Did he ever mention Winnie? that made me so cross . I felt it so angry that Jim was used to make Winnie jealous.
I shouldn't say this but part of me almost wishes Jim hadn't met Freddie as I'm sure his life would have been a lot more simple.
FreddieDarling,
Shaun was there, you were not. Please, let the man talk of his impressions of her without him having to feel badly about what he observed.
And, here we go again about Mary.
Shaun was there, you were not. Please, let the man talk of his impressions of her without him having to feel badly about what he observed.
And, here we go again about Mary.
Doughnut,that would upset me too if I were Jim.But in the end Freddie I think just wanted to see If Jim was serious about him.Jim won in the end and it looks like he got his man.He had to jump through some hoops but he finally got Freddie to settle.I just hate that settling came too late and Freddie lost his life.
Russialand,
John Murphy was NEVER at Garden Lodge. Only Lee and I were.as of 1986. You can trust me on that.
John Murphy was NEVER at Garden Lodge. Only Lee and I were.as of 1986. You can trust me on that.
doughnut
"I won at the end" - I would say, she refers to the public opinion and the fact that she was considered to be love of his life - even today it is widely believed and in those days, it was an undeniable fact.
I have read some articles released after Freddies passing and there was no single word about any man living in Garden Lodge. Mary was with Freddie in his last moments and she lived with him in GL. She was "the widow" and everybody pitied her. So even it wasn´t true in reality, in the eyes of everybody else except for Freddie´s inner circle, her dream became true.
Until Mercury and Me was released.
I would really like to know, what Dave Clark thinks about her. They seemed to be friends.
"I won at the end" - I would say, she refers to the public opinion and the fact that she was considered to be love of his life - even today it is widely believed and in those days, it was an undeniable fact.
I have read some articles released after Freddies passing and there was no single word about any man living in Garden Lodge. Mary was with Freddie in his last moments and she lived with him in GL. She was "the widow" and everybody pitied her. So even it wasn´t true in reality, in the eyes of everybody else except for Freddie´s inner circle, her dream became true.
Until Mercury and Me was released.
I would really like to know, what Dave Clark thinks about her. They seemed to be friends.
Thor don't worry it's been quite a civilised talk about Mary....makes a chance. She is of much interest to us so she keeps popping up lol
How are you, what have you been up to ? How is the book publishing coming along ?
How are you, what have you been up to ? How is the book publishing coming along ?