America turned away because of Prenter?

@FunLovinCriminal Good point.

I believe that MJ influenced by Queen in terms of inserting some rock heaviness in his songs. He might be influenced by Another one bites the dust, dragon attack and some renditions of hot space songs like Staying power and back chat. But not in terms of music production, writing or choosing his songs for Thriller. Interesting thing is that the 12'' remix intro of Pain is so close to pleasure is very similar with his 87-88 hit The way you make me feel.

I believe that MJ influenced by Queen in terms of inserting some rock heaviness in his songs. He might be influenced by Another one bites the dust, dragon attack and some renditions of hot space songs like Staying power and back chat. But not in terms of music production, writing or choosing his songs for Thriller. Interesting thing is that the 12'' remix intro of Pain is so close to pleasure is very similar with his 87-88 hit The way you make me feel.

I remember once answered a letter during 90s stating the reasons why Queen lost America, he wrote about a record industry retail "Scandal", MTV banning IWTBF, No touring US, the big gap between Album and The European tour was about US dates. Last he mentioned PR problems caused by Paul.

Perhaps MJ was influenced by The Game, but I doubt he'd have been much influenced by Hot Space. Hot Space wasn't ahead of its time at all, if anything it sounded slightly dated even when it was released. It wasn't post-modern, it wasn't funk, it wasn't much. I'm not saying Hot Space was altogether terrible, but it was weak. News of the World was for me really strong, Jazz was OK, and The Game sounded like Queen making a musical comeback. Then they put out Hot Space which is just not as good. It's without direction. There are some nice moments on it - Under Pressure is a great song, and I like Put out the Fire. There are some which just fall short of being great in my opinion like Cool Cat, Staying Power, and there are some which are just dire like Dancer and Body Language. Action This Day is OK, and sounds more like what was actually going on in 1982 than the rest of it.

I think had Queen toured America they'd have had some more success there, and perhaps if they'd taken advice and made a different video for Break Free for the USA they might have had more luck. Yes, homophobia sucks, but unfortunately it was the spirit of the time in the USA - they weren't ready for it. We've been dragging up in the UK for 300 years, and America never had that proud history.

I think Brian May's 1997 assessment of what went on in America is largely right. A host of things didn't help them, there wasn't one thing that screwed it up for them but a clusterfuck of things went wrong. The irony of Wayne's World is that the decision to include Bohemian Rhapsody happened before Freddie Mercury died - it's likely that Mike Myers didn't even realise just how sick Freddie was at that time if he thought of it at all - and had Freddie not been ill and they had been able to tour, Wayne's World would have really helped Queen reignite America. As it was, they couldn't tour.

Let's not forget too that at the time Freddie died, the press weren't all that nice to him in either country. The British press had a field day describing him as an outrageous bed-hopping bisexual rather than focusing on his music, and America is the country of God Hates Fags, something that was far more prevalent in 1991 than it is today, even if a quick tour round YouTube conspiracy videos makes it seem like America thinks we all have some gay agenda to push.....

At the end of the day, who really cares whether Queen lost America up to the mid-80's, or America lost Queen? By then all of them were multi millionaires - what the fuck were they complaining about? Their egos perhaps.
Had Paul Prenter written Hot Space? Queen had a manager, Queen had proper PR in America, Queen had professional tour-promoters in America. The fact that they had lost America must not necessarily been due to the ideas Mr May had about the fact. Their music was just not to the liking of the Americans at that time. That happens. As far as the homophobia ist concerned: If the Americans actually had a problem with gayness, why did they took to Culture Club wholeheartedly at around the same time the Break Free-video had been made? If a band which thinks it's great fails, it usually blames everybody else, apart from itself. I am gay, I am 52, I remember the 80's as a decade in which people by and large opened up to lesbians and gays step by step. AIDS gave the moralists, the TV evangelists, Mr Reagen and Mrs Thatcher a field day, but it also informed some empathy towards gay men which in the 90's turned into embracing „gay culture“ (if there is such a thing).
Freddie had a lot of power in terms of publicity, but he decided to not use it to fight the bigots. He could have. But then, he did wear the Mineshaft-shirt in a video, he looked exceptionally gay, he behaved gay, he did hint on his gayness in interviews. I don't even think that the public on either side of the world was then thinking that he was straight. It just didn't matter, did it? We could go on and on and... on the subject. But, people, please, Prenter didn't open up the gay world for Freddie. He might have been a henchman, but Freddie indulged the gay world, because he had already defined himself as being gay. And he wouldn't have acted differently if there had not been a Paul Prenter. If Freddie really accepted himself or if his sexual appetite was a substitute for the lack of self-acceptance is a different question...

Actually I totally agree with that.

I've never really understood America reacting badly to the drag in I want to Break Free. They loved Monty Python and they were dressing up in womens clothing long before Queen were even a thing.

[QUOTE] [b]whoman89 wrote:[/b]

I've never really understood America reacting badly to the drag in I want to Break Free. They loved Monty Python and they were dressing up in womens clothing long before Queen were even a thing. [/QUOTE]

Monty Python was originally a comedy sketch show then later movies. They dressed for comedy effect or to act as characters.

Queen through the 70's were a rock band and still had a rock fan base into the 80's although their audience had expanded and become more diverse by then. Middle America and maybe some of the southern states reacted to Queen in a negative way because as Roger said in an old interview it was viewed as not Rock enough

The strong cultural force in the American South is Evangelical Christianity. Whether it was Queen-rock or Twisted Sister-rock or Frank Zappa-rock, it was ROCK and the work of the devil. You might laugh, I do too. But let's remember that Beatles-records had been thrown into a bonfire, when John Lennon's remark that the Beatles seemed to be „more popular than Jesus“ got totally misused by the KKK. My point is that a rock band never really sold many records in the bible belt or in Missouri. The west and east coast-cities had always been the cultural hot spots in America and the most records had been and are still being sold in NYC, LA, Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco and so forth. Many english bands such as Jethro Tull, Genesis, Yes, Judas Priest and many more had their moments in America, and all of them had to downsize their tours from Arenas to Theaters. But they did! And they never stopped touring America. Queen in their infinite arrogance feared downsizing their audiences in the US. And then Taylor and May started bemoaning „losing America“. Freddie never did. Probably for a good reason. He just couldn't tour the US anymore because of special insurance policies for HIV-infected people. Either way, whether or not their popularity was waning in the US, what the fuck were they complaining about? They filled large outdoor-venues in 1986. And Freddie just couldn't tour anymore after the Magic Tour. Mays and Taylors attempt to clean the image of Queen with the movie seems to work. They have a huge US-tour ahead of them. Fine for them, but I can't withhold the feeling that they sacrificed their legacy for that. At least they successfully twisted it. If they were courageous, they should perform Break Free in drag. But that humorous phase of the band had died with Freddie.

@Martin Packer - Yes, he did and the Heaven t-shirt as well :) Not hiding anything, and no need to hide anything.

@FunLovinCriminal - Yes, your description of America in the 80's and 90's regarding the growing acceptance, empathy due to AIDS, and then even greater acceptance, of the gay community gets it precisely right. I don't know if you, like me, were around back then, but as a now 59 yo grandma, I can say that, as I did in my earlier post, Freddie's gayness would have been a non-issue. And I was then a college student in the *Dallas area - aka the "buckle" of the Bible Belt. Some of my friends didn't like the mustache/short haircut look Freddie adopted. But we loved, LOVED the music. Lots of metal, lots of rock fans in the Texas college crowd. Millions of Texas rock and metal fans. Queen could have filled Reunion Arena or the Convention Center in Dallas throughout the 80's. I didn't hear that Queen supposedly "lost" America until this new movie came out. My reaction remains, "Huh?" At no time, including after Freddie changed his look which was pretty much equivalent to announcing "I am gay," was there a backlash against Queen, at least not among my crowd. We were mildly surprised to discover Freddie Mercury was gay, wished he would grow his hair back and lose the moustache, then cranked their music up and wanted more Queen. This is my memory of my reaction and my friends' reactions. We just didn't care, though had Freddie asked us lol, we wld have said "shave the moustache off please Freddie" but since Freddie liked it, and, most importantly, since he continued to be Freddie, with all the gloriousness of Freddie, and since Queen continued to be Queen, Freddie being gay barely registered. We assumed rock stars slept around - Mick Jagger, Aerosmith, David Bowie - androgyny was in! I hope somehow Brian, Roger, and John read these forums. I really want them to know - there were plenty, millions and millions and millions, of American fans who never turned their backs on Queen. Ever. We would have gone to concerts. We never heard Radio GaGa or I Want to Break Free on our American radio when those songs were released. I don't know why they were not played on Amerucan radio stations. We would have loved those songs. Something else happened, it was not American youth rejecting Queen. The American college crowd never rejected Queen. And if I can say that from my college vantage point in 80's Texas, I think my experience was pretty much repeated throughout the land, not just on the coasts. Had Queen toured, the arenas would have been full throughout America.

@9kat5 - Many thanks for your memories of the standing of Queen among your friends in 80's America. The reason why you hadn't heard GaGa or Break Free on the radio is probably due to Capitol Records at that time refusing to buy the „services“ of Indie Promo Men. I could elaborate on that, but let's just say that the airwaves over on your side of the planet were full of songs that were only played because record companies payed dubious characters which „mysteriously made“ some songs hits and some failures. I never bought into the idea that Jim Beach would have tolerated Queen not being played on US radio. He would have forced Capitol Records to pay the Indie Criminals. I also never believed that Queen had „lost America" due to the actions of Paul Prenter. They simply should have continued touring, but Freddies HIV-status just simply did not allow him to travel to and in the US. On the other hand, the cultural climate in your country would have made it rather easy for Freddie at that time to appear rather subversive. Remember was the heyday of Pat Robertson, Jim and Tammy Baker, Jimmy Swaggart and all the other Televangelist-criminals. They created a climate of hate and division, their false faith made it easy for the PMRC to having had their appetite for censorship. And, let's not forget Ronald Reagen got into office with the financial help of Televengalists. In return he had to stand up for a lot of their racist ideals. Officially there was no support coming from the Reagen administration towards Gay Mens Health Crisis or any other organisation taking care of people infected with HIV. In Middle-America gay boys and men were, in fact, witch hunted. It was only in the big cities that the situation for gay men living in fear turned slowly to the better in the late 80's. Freddie had by that time not officially declared to having been gay. But, as you rightly stated, he looked as if he could have been in the Village People. Funnily, at the time of Live Aid his clone-appearance looked incredibly dated, I thought. But it was his way of looking manly. To me he never looked better than a little later, around the time of The Miracle, when he had that scruff. Anyway, enjoy your holiday!

[QUOTE] [b]FunLovinCriminal wrote:[/b]

They simply should have continued touring, but Freddies HIV-status just simply did not allow him to travel to and in the US. [/QUOTE]
In 1984 Freddie did not know anything about his HIV status so he could have travelled to the US without any problem. It is also the frist time that I heard that HUIV positive people were not allowed to travel?!?!
But as I said Freddie could have toured the US but they refused as The Works flopped in the US

They could have while on the Magic Tour, post Live Aid and didn't. People with HIV were allowed to travel, of course. But US-insurance companies were asking for HIV-tests of members of touring bands by that time...

[QUOTE] [b]9kat5 wrote:[/b]

@Martin Packer - Yes, he did and the Heaven t-shirt as well :) Not hiding anything, and no need to hide anything.

@FunLovinCriminal - Yes, your description of America in the 80's and 90's regarding the growing acceptance, empathy due to AIDS, and then even greater acceptance, of the gay community gets it precisely right. I don't know if you, like me, were around back then, but as a now 59 yo grandma, I can say that, as I did in my earlier post, Freddie's gayness would have been a non-issue. And I was then a college student in the *Dallas area - aka the "buckle" of the Bible Belt. Some of my friends didn't like the mustache/short haircut look Freddie adopted. But we loved, LOVED the music. Lots of metal, lots of rock fans in the Texas college crowd. Millions of Texas rock and metal fans. Queen could have filled Reunion Arena or the Convention Center in Dallas throughout the 80's. I didn't hear that Queen supposedly "lost" America until this new movie came out. My reaction remains, "Huh?" At no time, including after Freddie changed his look which was pretty much equivalent to announcing "I am gay," was there a backlash against Queen, at least not among my crowd. We were mildly surprised to discover Freddie Mercury was gay, wished he would grow his hair back and lose the moustache, then cranked their music up and wanted more Queen. This is my memory of my reaction and my friends' reactions. We just didn't care, though had Freddie asked us lol, we wld have said "shave the moustache off please Freddie" but since Freddie liked it, and, most importantly, since he continued to be Freddie, with all the gloriousness of Freddie, and since Queen continued to be Queen, Freddie being gay barely registered. We assumed rock stars slept around - Mick Jagger, Aerosmith, David Bowie - androgyny was in! I hope somehow Brian, Roger, and John read these forums. I really want them to know - there were plenty, millions and millions and millions, of American fans who never turned their backs on Queen. Ever. We would have gone to concerts. We never heard Radio GaGa or I Want to Break Free on our American radio when those songs were released. I don't know why they were not played on Amerucan radio stations. We would have loved those songs. Something else happened, it was not American youth rejecting Queen. The American college crowd never rejected Queen. And if I can say that from my college vantage point in 80's Texas, I think my experience was pretty much repeated throughout the land, not just on the coasts. Had Queen toured, the arenas would have been full throughout America. [/QUOTE]

Interesting reading this, however I find it hard to agree with your last line about the band filling arenas had they toured, I don't think they would.

Around The Game they were huge and concert ticket sales reflected that. By 1982 things had changed, Hot Space sales were down on The Game and ticket sales were too. In the States they weren't selling out anywhere near the number they previously had. The two strongest venues that they played historically LA Forum and Madison Square Garden sold less tickets and they played fewer nights at both.

The ticket sales decline was happening although you like a lot of people may not gab been aware of it.

The Works tour was scheduled to start in The States but although venues were lined up, although fewer and smaller than before, the tour was pulled before it was advertised. Brian actually said on a US phone in radio show that they were about to announce dates, and would be visiting the town of the person he was talking to during a phone conversation.

My understanding is that the promoters were not prepared to shoulder the cost of not filling the big arenas. Freddie saw playing smaller and fewer venues as a step backwards so America was lost

But, see, „lost“ is not a fitting term, because they could have toured there, had they been prepared for performing in smaller venues. Lost would apply if actually no one had been interested in them anymore, which was not the case. Any touring band experienced highs and lows in ticket sales, apart from the Rolling Stones, perhaps. But they are doing what Taylor and May are doing right now - they're cashing in, but are irrelevant as an artistic force.