As it began ' or any other books

Oh, hey, I was doing some more research on Garden Lodge and I found this YouTube video. I had seen it in some sidebars before, but never took the time to look at it. It sounds like the woman who did the video used Phoebe's book as a reference. One new thing I learned from trying to concentrate on that section of the book was that there was a Japanese room in the house. Her video shows that, plus the conservatory, and the service door near the kitchen. I found it interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaNdPTmBkQs&t=88s

I have seen that before Katy but it's been a while and was a nice refresher, thanks!! Interestingly enough, the next vid that popped up was the one I mentioned where some creeper climbed up a tree and shot a video over the wall into the yard. If anyone ever questions why Mary MAY have moved out, that should just about sum it up for you!

I hope the person the woman that did the video you posted, Katy, could do one for the inside. I have a hard time imagining the layout - especially of the upstairs. This rendering confused me on that more - is the upstairs a type of multi level? It seems as if you go up the stairs, get to Phoebes and Joes rooms along with maybe a couple of others then continue up a few more stairs to Freddie's suite. Gah, I have no imagination lol!

Amidds, Can you imagine dealing with the grief of the losing Freddie I dont care what people say you cant help what your heart feels.Then on top of that she has people nosing into her private life as she tries to raise her children.I think she handled it well.People destroyed the wall so many times she had to pay for that.Yes I can get why she moved if she did.I would love to see the inside of the house though maybe if people hadn't been so ugly to her things could of been different.No privacy yikes !

Katydid, same for me when Rudi says “hello darlings....” drives me nuts! First time was kind of cute, now it just grates. I only have one post on IG of Brian at a concert and mostly just follow people so it seemed strange that he followed me back. I checked to make sure it’s the real guy (lots of fake accounts that have close names to “stars” that follow you briefly for attention I guess) and it is. Weird!

I’m not even going to try and follow your GL layout discussion...my brain can’t handle it today, lol!

Hi all! I’m here. Fighting a head cold. Hoping to catch up with the conversation this weekend. Have a great day!

Wow, we had been on such a roll lol! I did finish the book and intend to move on to Peter's next one but did want to bring up the following quote from pgs 188-189: "I don’t think he ever fell ‘in love’ at first sight or anything like that. He loved people, sure, but each person received a different facet of the total love he bore. No one person exclusively received that total love. Ever. I know he loved me. I know he loved Mary but in a completely different way and certainly never in the standard issue boy-meets-girl way". Not sure why this is sticking with me so much through this read through but, it is and I'm interpreting it as Peter feels as NO ONE ever became "that one" for Freddie. An extremely sad statement but, he did have so many friends that loved him unconditionally and were so loyal. Do you get the same impression from this statement?

Hey Amidds, I'll come back to your quote later but is Phoebe's second book the one that has to be read on Kindle?

Amidds, Yes Freddie was always looking for someone to love that complete package.I do think he wanted to love Mary in the traditional sense and it broke his heart he couldn't.But in years to come they grew together and end up and had a love that was more genuine and special than anything romantic could offer.He loved men everything about them he wanted the romance the intimacy the whole package I think.He just picked the wrong guys he liked the rough men that treated him badly therefore he could not commit to them the way a man could commit to another man in a loving long lasting relationship.I find this sad.

Amidds, I have struggled with pages 188-189 every time I read the book. It's almost as bad as the endless description of Garden Lodge. It feels to me as if Phoebe is doing a lot of speculating on how Freddie viewed love. I do think it's true that he built a family with his friends and deeply loved them. It seemed as if those living at GL were more family to him than his biological family. I've always thought the boarding school years affected his ability to love, and part of that may have been due to fear of being abandoned. Of course, now I'm the one doing the speculating. Phoebe says trust was an integral part of loving someone for Freddie, but isn't that true for everyone? On page 188 Phoebe says that Freddie didn't have an idealized view of love but I think he did and it shows in the songs he wrote. It also seems as if Phoebe is completely dismissing the long term relationship Freddie had with Jim. I know that each time I read this section I notice that Phoebe stresses that Freddie had his most loving relationships with friends. Sometimes I wonder if this line of thinking was of more comfort or self-serving explanation for Phoebe than to admit that Freddie did have a long term loving relationship. If Phoebe believes that Freddie saved his deepest love for his friends, then Phoebe would benefit from that because he was a friend.

I have to admit that these are sort of half-formed thoughts that I'm coming up with as I write, and not very articulate thoughts at that. I hope someone else will jump in.

Katy, I have to agree with you, vis-a-vis what you're referring to in the discussion about FM's view of love in those confusing pages in Freestone's book. Like you, I've also wondered if there's a kind of dismissal of the Freddie/Jim relationship, in lieu of favoring the platonic relationships. I think your term "self-serving" is appropriate here.

Most people require some, or many, relationships to fulfill needs and it's not particularly healthy to rely on just one person for happiness. It would make perfect sense for FM to enjoy many kinds of friendships. But it's clear from FM's own words and from interviews of (many) of those who were in his life those last 6-7 years that Hutton was clearly his chosen partner in life.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who spotted that oddness. I recall (it's not in front of me at the moment) that Freestone says something to effect (not a quote) that: Freddie understood love better than anyone. Uh, I don't think so. I think in his younger years, he understood attraction, lust, flirting, fun--and that's perfectly fine and appropriate for playing the field-- but I'm not convinced that he really "got" what true love is, at least not until his late 30s and had his fill of all of the above and he was wanting to settle down with a quiet partner.

I'll also add that no one (myself included) would would be flummoxed about his behavior if he had been a hound-dog heterosexual, instead of a gay guy trying to live his life in a time before he could be completely open about his sexuality.

Amidds, I noticed that phrase too, I was going to bring it up but I figured maybe it would cause conflict with people that think Jim was Freddie’s “one”. I think that as close as Phoebe was to Freddie, and for so many years, he knew pretty accurately what Freddie felt. I took this to mean that Freddie never really found his true love, that connects on every level. That doesn’t mean he didn’t love Jim and want a long term relationship with him, it just means that maybe Jim wasn’t his deep-down forever soul mate. So no disrespect at all to Jim or their relationship. Maybe Freddie would have kept looking for his “one” if aids hadn’t hit, who knows? Maybe life with Jim was good and comfortable and loving and he stuck with that. If you ever read Dear Abby here in the states, you’ll find out there are tons of women who marry a man that is a good husband and father that they love, but doesn’t stir that fire inside. (They figure this out dozens of years later and ask Dear Abby what they should do now!)

All speculation on Freddie I guess, but interesting that we all noticed that statement in the book!

First, yes Katy, Peter's second book is on Kindle. At least that's the only place I have found it.

Second, wow you guys, I agree with everything. I had left my post a little open-ended because I really didn't want to appear as if I was trying to start a Mary v. Jim argument (lol) and I really love your well thought out responses!!! I also want to take it a little further. Based on Freddie's boarding school, religion and upbringing, we all know he had a horrible obstacle to overcome. I believe all those early relationships, especially where all the nasty fighting occurred was a reflection of his internal fighting of wanting to break free of all that strife and live his life how he wanted. But, he couldn't, because it could affect so many others (parents, bandmates, etc). So, it was a constant cycle of trying to find a love, knowing it could never work out the way he wanted it to, the anger over this, the fight that would ensue, the break-up, etc. (self-fulfilling prophecy). I also feel as if he had this imagined ideal of the "perfect" love that never would have materialized (because perfection doesn't exist) which added a certain amount of frustration.

In the meantime, friendships were "safe" and Freddie was able to have and develop those relationships as much as he wanted. I really don't think those were a replacement as Peter suggests, just easier to a struggling mind. However, this of course if just Phoebe's opinion. While I trust him and do believe he probably knew Freddie best, he certainly couldn't read his mind and could really only guess at some things. Of course, at other times, Phoebe also does seem to write "carefully" ...seemingly not wanting to be too specific and offend people or stir something up. I get that as well, but those are the times where I get frustrated and start thinking "come on Phoebe! Just say what you're thinking!". I know he can't, poor guy, people would come down on him like a ton of rocks......

As Freddie got older, we could see how the fighting ended (ok, got less physical), the relationships calmed down and seemed to mature. idk if Jim would have lasted forever but I think they were on the right track. Like MHZ said, sometimes love is what you need when you need it. It's different to everyone.

Thanks, Amidds, for broaching this subject. I think FM found solace in "safe" friendships and a variety thereof; he was after-all a bit (snort!) controlling, though I don't mean to imply he was selfish in his relationships as it's abundantly clear that he was a good friend and well-loved by many.

I know that Freestone portrays himself as FM's closest friend (probably helps with the PR part of his work), and I do think he knew FM fairly well, but I've never quite been convinced that he knew him better than anyone else. He's one view point of FM and well-worth reading, but he's only one. Whenever I see something about how he knew FM "best" I'm reminded that he wasn't in the first circle of trusted loved-ones who was told about FM's diagnosis. That says a lot to me. As well, FM trusted him as a care giver for the end of his life, which also speaks volumes about their relationship.

It's impossible to know whether FM and Hutton would have lasted for decades, though it seems their relationship (Freddie's early-in-their-relationship infidelities and later occasional emotional outbreaks, notwithstanding), was content and stable. They weathered a lot together, but were loyal to one another to end. I think that's the maturity that you're referring to.

I do understand needing to have more than one relationship to make you happy.Its not such a bad thing.No in the early years Freddie didnt understand love as many young people dont they understand the good times and lust that's the short term fix to our emotions.Stress in your life can bring these impulses for lust on or that's he way it works for me.But it does seem to ease the stress in your life if not only for a short while.Maybe Freddie had alot of stress in his life and these relation ships helped him cope with these situations in his life.We all know his folks came down on him pretty hard who wants to disappoint there parents at least back then kids didnt.

One thing I've never figured out on this forum is how to quote someone with their words appearing in a quote box. If someone knows how to do that, feel free to PM me, I'd love to learn. Since I am unable to manage that, here are TUHI's words:

"I know that Freestone portrays himself as FM's closest friend (probably helps with the PR part of his work), and I do think he knew FM fairly well, but I've never quite been convinced that he knew him better than anyone else. He's one view point of FM and well-worth reading, but he's only one. Whenever I see something about how he knew FM "best" I'm reminded that he wasn't in the first circle of trusted loved-ones who was told about FM's diagnosis. That says a lot to me. As well, FM trusted him as a care giver for the end of his life, which also speaks volumes about their relationship. "

I am in complete agreement. Of course Phoebe knew him well, not going to deny that, but "best"? Not so sure. Phoebe has made a career out of his knowledge and I'm glad because without him we might not know so much. He was certainly part of the inner circle, but I think there were others who knew him equally well. They just aren't talking. There was a period of years when Phoebe lived in GL supervising the renovations and Joe Fanelli traveled with Freddie. Theirs was a close relationship and I'm sure Joe would have said he knew him well too. Others have kept his secrets, and I'm glad of that too. Having said that I will say that when newbies ask for Freddie book suggestions, I always start with Phoebe's first book. Would I like the chance to hear him speak? Oh yes. Better yet might be one of those Freddie centered dinners he's doing now. It's a more intimate experience. The boat trip at Montreux would be a must-do for me. Amidds, I hope you are able to go on that boat and share all the details. When I see that he has posted a new blog entry I rush to read it. I think he has much to offer, I'm just not as impressed with him as he is with himself. I know I'm in the minority on that, and that's ok.

As for his second book, I do have it on Kindle and realized I'd read it before. Have any of you read it? It's a quick read. I read it while listening to the Super Bowl. I don't want to put any major spoilers here, but I'll admit that I find the second book entirely self-serving. I'll hold off on saying anything else, other than to say that I do think it has the potential to cause discussions to descend into arguments based on past experience on QZ. The good thing is that you are all such thoughtful people that it should be possible to avoid conflict.