Freddie's Sources of Inspiration

[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b]Brenski Firstly i have never come on this site to be nasty, when others like yourself decide to leave the odd sarcastic comment that is the start
of the touch paper getting lit for me and i dislike people deciding that only there opinions are valid and mine are torn to shreds and been told my opinions are stupid or wrong[/QUOTE]
so you keep saying. have you ever thought about not attacking people who disagree with you?
you talk about "sarcastic" replies - but almost every reply that you make aimed at any current Queen project, ends with you saying something really derogatory about AL.
many of us don't like the current Queen arrangement, but we either don't get involved in it, or we make constructive comments. Every single comment you have made will criticise AL by use of words like "c*nt", "tw*t", "fat" and other similar insults.
you claim your opinions are valid - but they never can be while you use your own vernacular. nobody will take anything you say seriously, if your first approach is to disabuse others with those methods.


[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b]Now getting back on track for this thread, i cannot see how Sheer Heart Attack has anything to do with the B&W film music but i can see it somewhere in The Millionaire Waltz and yes Freddie loved all that stuff.[/QUOTE]
i think you've missed the point a little. i was replying to your comment:
[b][i][color=blue]he was the only one in Queen who would have thought of something like that in the band.[/b][/i][/color]
and my reply was that all of the band members (not just Freddie) came up with ideas in different musical genres or taking different musical directions - including Roger's "Sheer Heart Attack".
and, fwiw - some of Queen's biggest hits; Radio Ga Ga, AKOM, Innuendo, These Are The Days of Our Lives, One Vision - sounded like nothing else Queen had done before - and were ALL Roger's ideas.

[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b]

Yes i can hear hints of Freddie in that clip, and he was the only one in Queen who would have thought of something like that in the band.
Freddie always brought a lovely piano piece to many Queen albums but sadly this stopped after Jazz on the track "In Only Seven Days" which yes was written by John Deacon but Freddie's piano
contribution was delightful.
[/QUOTE]

Freddie was not the only one in the band to bring something new/inventive to the band.

If your talking waltz time signature Roger Taylor did it before Freddie.

If your looking at Freddie's songs like Millionaire Waltz. Brian's guitar work bring almost as much to the song as Freddie's writing

I agree with you about Freddie's piano work, a lot of that and Queens uniqueness was lost when they started recording stock musical styles like Another One Bites The Dust, although neither disappeared completely.

As to the original subject of the thread.

I think Freddie's colonial background probably led him to hearing a lot of this style of music when he was growing up together with those old films. And that particular clip does sound very close.

[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b]Freddie brings flamboyance and camp to Queen music and that was the huge appeal to many of his massive hits.[/QUOTE]

i don't think that "flamoyance" and "camp" are the huge appeal of hit records. Neither element attracted me to his songs. Personally, it was melody, lyrics, and a good tune.

[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b]You would not get the good tunes if Freddie was not Freddie meaning he was a gay flamboyant man and that was embedded in his core as a human being.
A straight man could never have been as creative as Freddie was.[/QUOTE]

sorry, but i disagree. you are defining "as creative" as an innate characteristic only found in gay artists - more precisely; one gay artist. that's an utterly closed mind you have there.

firstly, creativity is the imaginative ability to have original ideas or make things. being gay and flamboyant is not a prerequisite.

secondly, lots of straight musicians are as creative as Freddie was. there's so many ways to be creative - and they ALL count equally, (maybe not to you - but to the world at large, definitely).
3½ Beatles were straight (there was a rumour about John), Zeppelin, Purple, Jeff Lynne, Rush, Kate Bush, Floyd and many others - all straight, and all as creative as Freddie. Maybe not in a way that even registers on your chart, but in the real world of creativity - definitely.

thirdly, and more importantly - some of (IMO) Freddie's best tunes had nothing flamboyant or gay about them. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Somebody To Love, Love of My Life, Liar, Seven Seas of Rhye and many more, were - if anything - androgynous, in that they could be written by either gender about either gender.
Need further proof? Take Freddie's supposedly "campest, most flamboyant" song - Don't Stop Me Now. Freddie knew the importance of being ambiguous, keeping it androgynous - hence one verse ending
"I wanna make a supersonic [b]man[/b] out of you"
and another ending:
"I wanna make a supersonic [b]woman[/b] of you"
point being; DSMN - despite most people's differing interpretations, was not "gay" "bi" or "straight" - it was a huge, vague, grey, question-mark. and deliberately so.

You protest too much .

But you have already accident agreed with Red. Deliberately vague, Freddie knew the importance so as not to alienate the commercial market of listeners , but without doubt a lot of these came from Freddie’s core. He did not care about making a supersonic woman.

[QUOTE] [b]AlbaNo1 wrote:[/b]You protest too much .
But you have already accident agreed with Red. [color=blue]Deliberately vague, Freddie knew the importance so as not to alienate the commercial market of listeners[/color] , but without doubt a lot of these came from Freddie’s core. He did not care about making a supersonic woman.[/QUOTE]

re: the highlighted section ^: maybe initially, but later on i don't think he cared who knew what about him. someone who wishes to maintain the ambiguity does not willingly appear in videos like IWTBF and IAHL, and then there's the Body Language vid - it may feature lots of females, but it's set in a bathhouse "mockup" and much of the imagery is anything but vague.

i think that part of my point was made a little clumsily.
i was trying to say that sexual orientation doesn't make for creativity, and lyrical androgyny is more creative.

it's easy to write: "my girl's mad at me" and similar - because the only perspective being used is that of the writer.

but being gay/bi/lesbian doesn't necessarily give a song-writer an advantage or more innate creativity. it's something a song-writer either has/doesn't have - regardless of sexual orientation.

BTW "gay" and "flamboyant" are largely unrelated.

[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b]Brenski Look at Bohemian Rhapsody rumoured to be about his sexuality, that song would not exist if Freddie had not been gay!
Secondly i disagree about other Queen songs Freddie wrote like Somebody To Love, he was desperate for a boyfriend to love but as we know Freddie always said let the listener interpret what they think
the song is....... Don't Stop Me Now is indeed about sex so the rumours go but again that is up to the listener to decide.
Freddie's sexuality lit up Queen like a floodlight he made the band vibrant and gave them character of been regal and importance.
Straight artists are dull in comparison.[/QUOTE]
that's your opinion, but it isn't fact. you can't say something would not exist if he hadn't been gay. you can never know this - ever.
and your interpretation of STL differs from mine - and many others. why should it be about "searching for a boyfriend"? it was Freddie's attempt at a rock-gospel love song. my original point was that there was nothing "flamboyant" or "gay" about STL. you're disagreeing with me, so show me the actual "gay" or "flamboyant" lyrics...or even a part that YOU can definitely interpret as "flamboyant" or "gay".

your last sentence is incredible. and discredits almost everything else you've said. sweeping statements do not become fact just because you make them. you'd be better off starting your statements with "i think" or "i feel".

while opinions vary, the only real fact is that there are no openly "gay" Freddie compositions, and - "flamboyance" and "gay" often exist exclusively of each other. therefore, the only absolute fact is that of my original point: most of Freddie's songs were not "flamboyant", none at all were "gay", but many were androgynous.
why would he deploy androgyny? we can only assume his motives - but our assumptions wouldn't be fact either, would they?

[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b]

1975 Freddie admitted to Mary he was gay which was a relief for him to be honest and open, then in 1976 Freddie composes a song about wanting love but this time
he can be open with himself about who he wants love with hence "Somebody To Love" and even Freddie admitted his songs come from personal experience and
you always get the best songs written through personal experience and i think "Somebody To Love" was about wanting a boyfriend.
You have your opinions but sometimes they are not fact either.[/QUOTE]

please read what i said, not what [b][i]you think[/b][/i] i said.
your last sentence is incorrect - [b][i]i haven't uttered an opinion[/b][/i] on this. to clarify: what i was stated is [b][i]fact:[/b][/i]
>> there are no actual[b][i] "gay"[/b][/i] or [b][i]"flamboyant"[/b][/i] lyrics in [b][i]STL[/b][/i] or [b][i]LOML[/b][/i] or [b][i]Liar[/b][/i] .
>> we can [b][i]only assume his motives[/b][/i]
>> there is nothing that clarifies he is [b][i]"searching for a boyfriend"[/b][/i] in [b][i]any[/b][/i] of his songs
>> [b][i]you can never know this - ever[/b][/i] - whether he would have written these songs, had he not been gay. there are thousands of brilliant "broken-heart" love songs written by straight people, you know.

using the word "think" as per your last post is better, because then individuals (like myself) can say, "well, i think i disagree because..."

however, as my posts were not opinion pieces, you have (accidentally) sidetracked my point.

Gerry, you keep moving the argument goalposts. the discussion was about "flamboyant" and "gay" songs.
there is nothing in any of the songs quoted that could be considered either.

you started by saying:
[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b][color=red]You would not get the good tunes if Freddie was not Freddie meaning he was a gay flamboyant man and that was embedded in his core as a human being. A straight man could never have been as creative as Freddie was.[/color][/QUOTE]
my reply:
[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b][color=green]thirdly, and more importantly - some of (IMO) Freddie's best tunes had nothing flamboyant or gay about them. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Somebody To Love, Love of My Life, Liar, Seven Seas of Rhye and many more, were - if anything - androgynous, in that they could be written by either gender about either gender.[/color][/QUOTE]
your reply claimed STL was about Freddie finding a gay lover:
[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b][color=red]Secondly i disagree about other Queen songs Freddie wrote like Somebody To Love, he was desperate for a boyfriend to love but as we know Freddie always said let the listener interpret what they think[/color][/QUOTE]
to which, i responded:
[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b][color=green]why should it be about "searching for a boyfriend"? it was Freddie's attempt at a rock-gospel love song. my original point was that there was nothing "flamboyant" or "gay" about STL. you're disagreeing with me, so show me the actual "gay" or "flamboyant" lyrics...or even a part that YOU can definitely interpret as "flamboyant" or "gay".[/color][/QUOTE]
then this from you:
[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b][color=red]1975 Freddie admitted to Mary he was gay which was a relief for him to be honest and open, then in 1976 Freddie composes a song about wanting love but this time he can be open with himself about who he wants love with hence "Somebody To Love"[/color][/QUOTE]
so I asked you about STL (again):
[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b][color=green]>> there are no actual[b][i] "gay"[/b][/i] or [b][i]"flamboyant"[/b][/i] lyrics in [b][i]STL[/b][/i] or [b][i]LOML[/b][/i] or [b][i]Liar[/b][/i] .
>> we can [b][i]only assume his motives[/b][/i]
>> there is nothing that clarifies he is [b][i]"searching for a boyfriend"[/b][/i] in [b][i]any[/b][/i] of his songs
>> [b][i]you can never know this - ever[/b][/i] - whether he would have written these songs, had he not been gay. there are thousands of brilliant "broken-heart" love songs written by straight people, you know.[/color][/QUOTE]
your next reply is a complete sidetrack/diversion:
[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b][color=red]Well fact "Its A Hard Life" is about Freddie's gay relationships[/color][/QUOTE]

so, over the course of this discussion you've avoided answering two questions:
>> what proof do you have that Freddie could not have written STL or LOML if was straight?
>> where is the "gay" or "flamboyant" content in the lyrics to STL or LoML or Liar?

you still haven't answered this - please try to address the actual questions.

[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b]Think what Freddie wanted in the song Somebody To Love, he is asking for a man he is a gay man, penny dropped?[/QUOTE]
not at all. that's just your interpretation. it doesn't make it the right one.
Freddie loved Aretha Franklin and i think STL was his rock/gospel moment.
Next you'll be telling us that his vaudeville/music hall moments were also odes to finding a gay partner.

regardless of your need to give all of Freddie's love songs a gay address/request of some form, this simply isn't the case.

you can guess/assume what you want - but it doesn't make you right. unless a song clearly states he's "looking for a man" - then he isn't. he's writing love/romance songs that will have universal appeal. this is something writers do. - why halve your potential sales market?


you keep claiming that only a gay Freddie could write these songs:

[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b]Brenski Look at Bohemian Rhapsody rumoured to be about his sexuality, that song would not exist if Freddie had not been gay![/QUOTE]

so, i'll ask you once more: what [b][u]proof[/b][/u] do you have that Freddie could not have written STL or LOML or DSMN or Bo Rhap if was straight?

[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b]Secretly in Freddie's head a few songs were about finding a male partner [/QUOTE]
if they were secretly in his head, then you could never know this. that's what [b]secretly[/b] and [b]in Freddie's head[/b] means.
therefore, stop saying things you have no proof of


[QUOTE] [b]red** wrote:[/b]Around 1983/1984 Freddie's love life was very wild and the amount of men that he dated was off the scale and "Its A Hard Life " tied in nicely with that era.[/QUOTE]
"tied in nicely"??? - for your imagination maybe. but unless Freddie actually said a specific song was about relationships with gay men, then you have NO PROOF. Please stop tying everything to some "agenda" you appear to be developing.


anyhow, as you've completely ignored my main point (again)...i'll ask you one last time. unless you finally answer this honestly, you can consider this exchange dead. so here goes:
what [b][u]proof [/b][/u]do you have that Freddie could not have written STL or LOML or DSMN or Bo Rhap if was straight?

[QUOTE] [b]red** (aka Freddie's psychotherapist) wrote:[/b]

Secretly in Freddie's head a few songs were about finding a male partner[/QUOTE]

FTFY.

What else was secretly going on in his head? Inquiring minds want to know.

red** Secretly in Freddie's head a few songs were about finding a male partner

You sound terribly desperate . What proof do you have any other than your imagination or possibly " secret" talks with a few weirdos ?

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b][QUOTE] [b]red** (aka Freddie's psychotherapist) wrote:[/b]
Secretly in Freddie's head a few songs were about finding a male partner[/QUOTE]FTFY.
What else was secretly going on in his head? Inquiring minds want to know.[/QUOTE]

exactly what I've been trying saying. Gerry, refuses to answer:

[i][color=purple]unless Freddie actually said a specific song was about relationships with gay men, then you have NO PROOF. Please stop tying everything to some "agenda" you appear to be developing.[/i][/color]

[i][color=purple]what [b][u]proof [/b][/u]do you have that Freddie could not have written STL or LOML or DSMN or Bo Rhap if was straight?[/i][/color]

he can't answer...because he HAS no actual proof. this is exactly how Gerry wins arguments:
hopping from one bizarre theory to another - thereby avoiding any previous questions. so, for one FINAL TIME Gerry, answer these TWO questions with actual proof, or reply "i don't have any proof"

[b] please prove (and not via your own anecdotal views) - by either posting a direct link or a written quote from Freddie - that [i]It's A Hard Life[/i] is about relationships with gay men.[/b]

[b] what irrefutable proof (scientific, academic or otherwise) that a straight Freddie could not have written STL or LOML or DSMN or Bo Rhap[/b]

if you can't do this, just say so - and we'll move on. but either way, stop trying to pass stuff off as fact - of which you have no proof at all.