That's exactly what I was talking about. Let's just hate a whole group of people instead of just the few who might actually deserve it. Without objectivity, history will continue to repeat itself. Can't blame others if we're not willing to change. Simplicity? Yes, it could and should be.
The Real Wizard · Member since
But it isn't. We're grownups, and solving problems like 400 years of racism isn't simple.
History is only repeating itself because your country isn't doing anything about racism. The root causes have rarely been addressed. The last time it tried to, the nation's greatest philosopher was assassinated (unless you count Obama, in which case you can thank the current US president for discrediting his efforts in the form of helping convince 3/4 of Republicans that he was born in Kenya).
You're right - it isn't the majority of America's fault that it hasn't addressed the causes of racism, because there has been a concerted effort by a powerful few who have sought not to educate its citizenry about the country's racist history. These people continue to lobby legislators who decide who writes the school curriculums. The ignorance of the majority of America is by design. And that's going to make it that much harder for your country to heal itself.
But we're in the digital age now. The information isn't hard to find. Start with this:
This video clearly and methodically illustrates how slavery was relocated from plantations to prisons, and how it affects literally everyone else in the form of jobs that are not on the job market because those jobs are done by predominantly black prisoners for 16 to 26 cents an hour - in privately owned prisons where the states pay them per prisoner. And the people who own those prisons pay off the media to ensure black people remain stigmatized as "criminals" so that it stays this way. This is how it has been since 1865, and why it has not once been covered on the news. Until the majority of America revolts against this, nothing will change for anyone.
matt z · Member since
Amen, Wiz. Essentially the worst suspicions are prob true.. the POSUS is a compromised individual, as is likely half or more of the House and Senate.. and they're likely trying to destabilize everything. Undermining law, disregarding checks and balances, surveillance, dividing the populace further, 4 Inspector General removals in something like 3-4 months, extremely suspicious delays in reacting to Covid-19 (they'd snapped up massive investments in the newly essential Tele-medicine and let their buddies drop stocks prior to even making covid a response (to which they haven't even responded well to)... deployment of the military on its own civilian population, pandering photo ops. Endless madness... it has all seemed deliberate.
At least the general public is getting a perspective of it. People's trades being reduced to a ONE TIME $1,200 supplement (plus a little more for those who have children) racking up 3+ months of debt, some being evicted, some governors putting a moratorium on evictions (which equals racked up debt once this is recalled). People without livelihood.
it's hard to understand how this fuckup still has a base, if it's not just stubborn hatred, as most of his policies have not benefited the working man. (they only benefit stock and shareholders, who eventually likely produce overseas) nearly all oversight on environmental restrictions have been removed by his declaration of "national emergency" (for which his administration has still failed to guide and prevent with prior or forthcoming efforts)
I can only hope that dissent leads to removal... this is all a huge, huge mess... leading to fascism. I'm one of the few still retaining employment, though several have been laid off this past week (despite the company being in the Fortune 500)
To make matters worse, there will likely be a potential upsurge in the second wave of covid from MEMORIAL DAY and now.. the protests (many being intercepted and used to mask looting and or alternative counter -intelligence like activities)
I've been around town if only just for the basics, and I HAVE overheard some little wanna be thug kids, teenagers (ethnically hispanic and asian since that's where I live around) who were getting antsy and happy about going to certain towns and hoping to loot something good.
it's all a measure of mass chaos, which I feel is deliberate. There's no leadership to control this "us vs them" factioning that gets bolstered any time that it benefits old white folks fears of "colored folks"
hell, there's even surplus food not getting distributed to food vendors and stores thats either being plowed under or just all out massacred ("livestock")... we've got the Pres' people discussing people as "human capital stock" without any resultant disgust from this guy's base...
its beyond deplorable, it's offensive to law, life and sanity and any degree of intelligence.
Absolutely disgusting. Tweets suggest the reporter laughed when asked if they'd shot more than one round.
Saint Jiub · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
We're watching the fall of an empire. And thanks to social media, the world can watch in real time. The country may not even make it to the next election.
Stay safe.
[/QUOTE]
The following editorial was written by a Washington Post correspondent (not Fox News):
Commentary: ‘Tonight she’s jobless.' There’s nothing justifiable in looting.
Since last weekend, when looting spread from the downtown business district to pockets of Chicago, I’ve tracked reactions on social media, largely by white friends safely tucked at home, away from the consequences of destruction. To my surprise, many romanticized the looting, saying it’s just their black neighbors raging against society’s sins that go back centuries. Two nights earlier I had posted photos of a hair salon’s storefront, shattered by bricks during a riot in Uptown. One friend said she understood the distraught owner’s frustration, but hey, she has insurance, and she should really appreciate the larger struggle.
Then there was that meme circulating for days that suggests if you are outraged by looting, you couldn’t possibly be outraged by the death of George Floyd.
No. You can be outraged by both. Looting is a destroyer in these neighborhoods. I agree that Gucci can rebuild. And Gucci customers can move on. But you know who can’t? Jerry Winfrey, 54, the caretaker for his mother. The Dollar Tree looting and fire now means he has nowhere to buy groceries. He has no car. The nearest Jewel might as well be on Mars. “Can’t go to the grocery store no more,” he says. With Dollar Tree gone, “it’s gonna be rough.”
This whole thing is a tragedy, has zero to do with Floyd’s tragic killing, and it’s aggravating to listen to armchair liberals reciting abstract social theories that conclude what’s good for the impoverished in our city. Real life is more complex than fits a meme. Or that think piece in Salon you’re sharing that got your echo chamber giving you mega “likes” on your social media page.
The next time you share that meme and bang out a post proclaiming how looting and destruction benefits society because — Who? Trump? The mayor? Santa Claus? — is going to learn a lesson about the suffering of people, why don’t you drive to Chicago and Homan avenues on the West Side and ask the people who are actually suffering? Guarantee they’ll give you a different story.
matt z · Member since
Yeah there have been plenty opportunist assholes going down at the late hours (after most protests have concluded) with no interest other than to loot.
There ARE also others certain of disregarding the curfews imposed in some towns. A number of these are independent feedbackers and you can track many incidents occurring LIVE by being on Twitter/instagram/fb (those that aren't removed). All with a mind toward reporting those doing the looting and the flanks of officers conducting extreme violations.
They've actually become the proper recorders of this.
Since they'd essentially waved (removed) Habeas Corpus AND the EPA restrictions beginning with this national state of emergency (in which dumb Donald [no not the guy from Fat Albert] has done nothing to utilize the Defense Protection Act for protecting citizens and stopping the thread of COVID) and begun actually detaining people like Brown shirts, some have actually "disappeared" in unmarked vehicles by badgeless "police" in heavy armaments and armory.
There's truly a lot of evil shit going on. There's no justifying asshole teenagers and gang bangers looting. There are bad folks abound with that. ..also potentially (*as in Minnesota) direct records of instigators breaking Windows, graffitiing and undermining the efforts.
There ARE flanks of racist (White P ower ) police and military. Some being recorded flashing WP signs.
A positive that's happened is that SOME have been relieved or fired from duty. Some merely removed from active duty.
There's a tremendous amount of evil shit going on.
Holly2003 · Member since
Saint Jiub wrote:
The following editorial was written by a Washington Post correspondent (not Fox News)
If you are so outraged by both the looting and the death of George Floyd (I presume) why have you yet to even mention his name?
Saint Jiub · Member since
Looks like you are the only one in this topic so far to mention George Floyd by name, so apparently you believe that you are the only one to give a shit.
While you are so fixated on people not mentioning George Floyd by name, I don't suppose you remember Philando Castile? His killing by a Minnesota cop happened in 2016 which is longer ago than I remembered. I could have sworn it happened in 2018, but memory plays tricks. Philondo Castille's killing probably played a role in spirit of the Minnesota protests, but it appears not many remember.
I initially searched "Minnesota police killing" but came up empty. It is only when I added "traffic stop" was I able to refresh my memory.
Slow hand clap. Wasn't that hard, was it, to mention the man whose murder started this latest round of protests against police violence and racism? Maybe you might address that or any of the other points raised in this thread? Or maybe you will, like most republicans it seems, give Trump another mild slap on the wrist and then refocus your attention on looting, as if that's the main story here.
matt z · Member since
people are going to go to flanks by not mentioning George Floyd's name?
This shit is ongoing... it's been happening forever. There are countless folks whose lives have been ruined, wrecked, abused, debased etc by abuse, racial profiling (wrong convictions, when convicting someone is seen as expeditious and conclusive) and drug planting etc...
Unless you're familiar with the USA and live out here.. some of these flanks might be surprising. As much as I can share a laugh and a brew with someone at a bar/pub etc, I'll also be privy to shares, and stories... sometimes the people are cops, sometimes the people are hoodrats (gangsters etc) but the thing is always the same "you people aren't so bad, etc" but it never shows up on the outside.
I think the notion of pushing police reform, after the public witnessed something seen without edit (JFK, I'm talking to you) which was clearly a debasement of a human life... i think it's necessary and I'm glad there are some folks who will put their lives on the line out there against the deeply rigid and protective wall of various PD's.
That's a great step. For years there have been many accounts of various Police Departments looking and behaving more like Actual Prison people than real life citizens. Sure they experience untold insanity that most people will never witness...but it's also true that there are many who are attracted to "correctional facilities" out of feelings of their own neglect, abuse, inattention and failures, who RELISH in inflicting pain and exploiting matters behind the scenes".. it might sound bizarre on paper, but people elect and select "sides"... if you're spending 40 + hours each week in such ugly enviornments how else would you view human life, except as skewered?
But small divergence aside, .. these viewpoints impact police culture... being WITHIN the shit, you're likely to keep ranks and prevent anybody else on the "outside" ffrom judging your actions... legal or not... WHO ARE THEY TO SAY??!! etc...
its' what happens.. People aren't perfect, but the endemic racism of certain towns and cities has been known for at least 80-100 years (Boston, NY, Utah, Arizona etc). and their actions are a reflection of the public at large and what they will accept and permit.. (Thanks to the PRESS.. which this POSUS has been decrying as FAKE NEWS so long as the subject matter exposes his and his own's corruption)
I'm grateful for at least the OBSERVATION and DISCUSSION what America embodies. if we only have one life, why should these "nuances and freak ocurrences" be disregarded as such, when they impact people on such a structural level?
I've been harassed in my life by PD. Stopped driving because I'm not white and not driving a fancy car (as a student paying my own ways) ... held, handcuffed, illegally had my vehicle searched in all exposed cavities for 40 -45 minutes on a major street ultimately for no citation to have been issued, and to have been advised "there had been some people keying cars around here" we noticed you had keys (after a search of my vehicle resulted in finding my studio keys [i ran a music studio with 10 rooms, and various accessible locks for equipment, shutters, a/c, outdoor access etc")
had I had any money I would've hired an attorney.. but it would've been my word against theirs. That said.. I missed my movie, I missed my date, I lost my mind and had to buy a pack of smokes to be angry and pissed off by myself for a minute.
Truth is.. compared to others being truly and REALLY identified as suspects on crimes that had just happened... I could've been beaten and left at the station, car impounded (since it was stopped on a public street) and left with 3-14 days of impound fees as a student working two jobs) because I represented some "closure" in the matter.
The FACT is.. I hadn't been ANYWHERE NEAR THAT TOWN in several months. I was going after work to meet up at a theatre.
Even minor things like this could really wreck a persons life.. I hardly see how accountability at this point, could even be an issue for people.
The Real Wizard · Member since
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/cameron-welch-tiktok-black-rules_l_5ed96c6bc5b69d703f3855fd
Including the attached photo, here are three chances for those of us who are white to check our privilege.
No more excuses. We all need to focus squarely on the problem if there's ever going to be any chance of solving it.
Dr Magus · Member since
I won’t kneel with the masses,
I won’t be told my fate,
By people who hijack tragedy,
To perpetuate their hate.
Don’t you shout Black Lives Matter,
Whilst running through the streets,
When your people are burning Foot Locker,
Stealing Nikes for their feet.
Don’t dance on The Cenotaph,
Like it’s Carnival or Mardi Gras,
That sacred granite edifice,
Marks people who died in war.
How dare you besiege Number 10,
This isn’t even our fight,
If you want to go and protest,
Get a 4,000 mile flight.
Social distancing flouted,
Police punched in the face,
Missiles hurled at Downing Street.,
This isn’t about race.
It’s rent-a-mob and anarchists,
Versus police led by lambs,
They just stand there and take it,
Lefty Cressida tied their hands.
Meanwhile America’s burning,
It’s a tragedy we all agree,
That George Floyd lost his life,
For all the world to see.
Justice must take its course,
The cop has lost his job,
Now he faces twelve good and true,
Not a braying mob.
So Monday I won’t be kneeling,
I won’t even bow my head,
Because someone I don’t even know,
Has wound up dead.
An armed robber and a felon,
In and out of jail,
As a model citizen,
He was a total fail.
I’ll weep for whom I choose to,
I’ll say where and when,
Not because a lifelong offender,
Bought it in the end.
I don’t condone the officers,
They rightly face the wrath,
But ask me to kneel for a criminal?
Don’t make me laugh.
You can keep your lefty rhetoric,
Your dismantling of our state,
It’s BLACK LIVES MATTER, not Middle England,
That’s peddling the hate.
matt z · Member since
^This is a complaint about looters and rioters.. and no question people should be upset about that. Legislation hasn't always come on the side of civic duty. Just look at Gideon vs Wainwright. This is a human rights issue thats been going on for far too long in this and other countries. It's about enforcing the law, and ensuring that it applies equally to all citizens. The complaints, eh.. I don't think anybody's calling for a sainthood of George Floyd.
Even at funerals people tend to ignore the bad parts of people's lives. The guy was supposedly trying to pass a fake $20 bill. No matter who you are, you shouldn't die from it. The restraints and illegal holds on the guy hindered any assistance of someone who was apparently in custody. Whether hindered by other complications, there was no apparent resistance that was spoken about (footage across the street, until he was taken across to the other car) Regardless of whether someone is not an ideal person, this form of response doesn't match the situation.
And unless you're deaf and blind, you'd notice that it happens disproportionately in the States. Go check what's happening now, if you're a US citizen... there have been numerous attacks on the press and on protesters: black, white, asian, "latino" or other.
This IS a real problem. Has been for decades and centuries. It's really the wrong time to be criticizing the lowest of it. $20. That's rarely going to be proven. I've had a counterfeit $100 come from the ATM before. I return change (dollars) that I see when I get them from clerks. (it's apparent some times).. but for all we know, the intent may not have been there. AND if it was, then the guy was refused as accepted payment, GTFO of here... go, and end of story for most.
I can reassure you, if you're white, that if you'd received a fake bill and tried paying for something with it, you wouldn't be dead in the street over it. Even if it was intentional.
The measures don't match, and that's merely THIS case.
The Real Wizard · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]Dr Magus wrote:[/b]
You can keep your lefty rhetoric,
Your dismantling of our state,
It’s BLACK LIVES MATTER, not Middle England,
That’s peddling the hate.[/QUOTE]
When's the last time you walked down the street, day or night, and felt afraid because of the colour of your skin?
In what universe is Black Lives Matter more dangerous than centuries of systematic racism ?
And since when has battling racism been a "lefty" issue? Are you suggesting all conservatives are racist?
Saint Jiub · Member since
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
Are you suggesting all conservatives are racist?
[/QUOTE]
No - YOU are suggesting that all conservatives are racist (or at least anyone who voted for Trump).
All you are doing is discouraging dialogue and pushing the hate underground. Congratulations.
Please check your elitist illiberal white privilege, leave QZ, and take your illiberal hate to Twitter where you can join like-minded people who share your confirmation bias.
Commentary: When the Twitter mob takes on George Floyd, Tom Cotton and police power, we all lose
"Last week gave us more reason to believe that our president is an illiberal authoritarian, much like Vladimir Putin and the other overseas autocrats he admires.
Yet the protest movement revealed its own illiberal streak, which should also trouble anyone who is concerned about racial justice. Like every decent American, I want to live in a country where black people aren’t harassed and killed with impunity by the police. But I don’t think we can get there by social media shame campaigns, which create yet more fear and intolerance. Harsh policing of our words won’t end police violence and racism; it might even make things worse, by empowering Trump and his henchmen.
It also encourages digital sadism, disguised as social justice. Mocking miscreants on the internet becomes a way to establish your own woke status. And the highest props go to the nastiest posts.
So almost everyone on the left dutifully got in line — or at least bit their tongues — while Sen. Cotton crowed about how he had exposed the bias and cowardice of The New York Times.
By the time Editorial Page Editor James Bennet stepped down Sunday, it was hard to find anyone other than Republicans who said running the piece was a good idea. Privately, several of my liberal friends told me that they supported the decision to publish Cotton’s column because it underscored the essential depravity of the Trump-era GOP. But they would never say so in public, my friends added, because then the Twitter mob would come after them.
How can that be a good thing for the fight against injustice? For the past two weeks, we have heard frequent calls for an “honest conversation" about policing and racism in the United States. But you can’t have a real conversation when people are afraid of saying the wrong thing. That doesn’t create more fair-minded citizens; it makes cynics, who mouth the right words.
I fail to see how any of these rituals of public humiliation and retribution get us any closer to justice for George Floyd. It is pure fantasy to imagine they will make anybody more aware of racism or more inclined to challenge it. All they will do is make people afraid to talk and think.
And they echo the illiberal spirit of President Trump, who wants nothing more than to scare and divide us. He traffics in fear and shame, which are tools of domination rather than justice. They can force you to grovel, but they can’t change your heart. They might even harden it."
