Oops my post directed at $1245.89 was too late ( I forgot to refresh the page)
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John: I'll try to keep this short. You've basically just affirmed what I said.. you're hung up on the money aspect. Maybe you feel ripped off because you don't enjoy the stuff as much anymore or something, whatever.
I do understand where you're coming from. You've paid a lot for something and don't want to give it away free. But my position is that even giving out high quality MP3s would not degrade the value *that* much. You'd still have your originals plus the special feeling of having shared and made fans happy. And yes, I also get the point that you already have shared a lot. But if you've got stuff that's otherwise never coming out, what's the fun of dying with it?
I do it, in much a smaller capacity with the karaokes. But that's all I'm capable of. Since they're released in one country only and a bit pricey for some folks, I make them available to all. Not exactly legal on my part, but that's another issue. Even Barb (YV) has told me these are acceptable for the hub.. though I've never joined...
So to answer that part, no.. I have probably heard a lot less of your stuff than you think. Only the one Ibex track, only the one officially used De Lane track.. I have no interest at all in live stuff either. I barely have interest in the official live stuff, and generally only with video attached.
Okay, I didn't keep it short, but there you have it.
I do understand where you're coming from. You've paid a lot for something and don't want to give it away free. But my position is that even giving out high quality MP3s would not degrade the value *that* much. You'd still have your originals plus the special feeling of having shared and made fans happy. And yes, I also get the point that you already have shared a lot. But if you've got stuff that's otherwise never coming out, what's the fun of dying with it?
I do it, in much a smaller capacity with the karaokes. But that's all I'm capable of. Since they're released in one country only and a bit pricey for some folks, I make them available to all. Not exactly legal on my part, but that's another issue. Even Barb (YV) has told me these are acceptable for the hub.. though I've never joined...
So to answer that part, no.. I have probably heard a lot less of your stuff than you think. Only the one Ibex track, only the one officially used De Lane track.. I have no interest at all in live stuff either. I barely have interest in the official live stuff, and generally only with video attached.
Okay, I didn't keep it short, but there you have it.
Btw DF, thanks for that "Creating Gypsy mp3." That's really cool. How did that get shared? Is there a place where I can read the story on it?
I like the idea of passing on low-quality copies of this unreleased material in snippet form. Whoever did that with the Gypsy track is really cool. I'm not a fan, but this is interesting stuff.
Peace,
Adam.
I like the idea of passing on low-quality copies of this unreleased material in snippet form. Whoever did that with the Gypsy track is really cool. I'm not a fan, but this is interesting stuff.
Peace,
Adam.
"I do understand where you're coming from. You've paid a lot for something and don't want to give it away free. But my position is that even giving out high quality MP3s would not degrade the value *that* much."
Any evidence to back up this statement?
Any evidence to back up this statement?
Bullwinkle: I'm sorry, I keep forgetting that monetary value seems to be the most important issue here. Yes, I can see what's coming.. "Well if it gets out there for free, it loses value in the eyes of other collectors". Probably true, so it's a question of either selling the stuff at the price paid, or keeping them to himself and hardly anyone else hearing them? I guess in that case I'd be suggesting that John break that cycle, let the fans hear the stuff, and keep the originals himself, happy that he had them for however long at a certain value, and still has the originals which must surely still be worth more than lossy MP3s.
Adam: I think those were shared in an 80s newsgroup, and probably a bootleg group also. Hopefully you're familiar with newsgroups so I don't have to explain that :) And I edited that together myself from what was posted, except for the full song at the end.
Adam: I think those were shared in an 80s newsgroup, and probably a bootleg group also. Hopefully you're familiar with newsgroups so I don't have to explain that :) And I edited that together myself from what was posted, except for the full song at the end.
There`s so muchinteresting stuff in this thread, so I don`t know if I remember everything I was going to say:
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Soul Brother:
Theoretically, there`s no "rule" about the lyrics. Which Queen songs are named "God bless my soul", "the man with the most", "how does he do it", "he`s got a style", "he`s so heavy", "he`s a trip"... The whole "tribute to earlier songs" thing could have been only for the second verse; in that case the Under Pressure lines don`t count since they`re in the bridge. It`s possible that Fred just put them there and one year (or a couple of months) later they happened to write a song with that title. Not even that title since David was the one who suggested it (and he probably didn`t know about Soul Brother).
Taking that in account, the piano part sounds like a Bosendorfer (ie Musicland Studios); but we`re screwed since there were parts of Hot Space recorded there, and the entire Game album. In fact, theoretically, it could have even been for Flash (and recorded at Townhouse Studio 1 or 3, which have Bosendorfers, the other one has a Steinway).
Musically, it has compositional devices more in the Game side of Freddie`s songwriting, but still it doesn`t prove anything.
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Back Chat:
Yes, no backwards. The solo is different, so I suppose Brian did several takes and improved gradually in each one of them; after the demo he continued improving it.
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There Must Be More To Life Than This:
According to FM`s box-set, the piano part was recorded in May 25th 1984, which is of course closer to Works than HS. BUT, since there`s the collaboration with Michel, here`s a theory: it was a song they had planned to do together, but at the end Fred decided to include it in his solo album. That would mean the piano take from Michael`s version is different (which would make sense, since I think it`s "live"), and that could be easily before.
That leads to the question: when did they record together (and where)? As far as I know, they started to go different ways after Thriller (1982) because Jacko was now so famous. So their sessions would be from the HS era.
State Of Shock was released in 1984 (with Mick Jagger instead of Fred) in the Victory album (according to FM in a Munich interview in 1984, Victory, the song, was written by Michael and himself), but remember the Victory album was more a posthumous one, not in the matter that someone was dead, but in the matter that Jacksons Five didn`t actually exist anymore (even though they later on released a couple of things without Michael). I think Victory was their first album in five years or so; then State could be from anytime between 1978/1979 and 1984. Makes sense again.
Fred said he didn`t like to use "rejects" in albums, he wanted to write new material. But There must Be more to Life could be the exception of the rule (if so, thank God it was, since it`s a very nice song).
I do find it, compositionally speaking, a little more Works-esque/MrBadGuy-esque, than from early 80s, but still that`s a "clue", not an "evidence".
-------
Soul Brother:
Theoretically, there`s no "rule" about the lyrics. Which Queen songs are named "God bless my soul", "the man with the most", "how does he do it", "he`s got a style", "he`s so heavy", "he`s a trip"... The whole "tribute to earlier songs" thing could have been only for the second verse; in that case the Under Pressure lines don`t count since they`re in the bridge. It`s possible that Fred just put them there and one year (or a couple of months) later they happened to write a song with that title. Not even that title since David was the one who suggested it (and he probably didn`t know about Soul Brother).
Taking that in account, the piano part sounds like a Bosendorfer (ie Musicland Studios); but we`re screwed since there were parts of Hot Space recorded there, and the entire Game album. In fact, theoretically, it could have even been for Flash (and recorded at Townhouse Studio 1 or 3, which have Bosendorfers, the other one has a Steinway).
Musically, it has compositional devices more in the Game side of Freddie`s songwriting, but still it doesn`t prove anything.
---------
Back Chat:
Yes, no backwards. The solo is different, so I suppose Brian did several takes and improved gradually in each one of them; after the demo he continued improving it.
----------
There Must Be More To Life Than This:
According to FM`s box-set, the piano part was recorded in May 25th 1984, which is of course closer to Works than HS. BUT, since there`s the collaboration with Michel, here`s a theory: it was a song they had planned to do together, but at the end Fred decided to include it in his solo album. That would mean the piano take from Michael`s version is different (which would make sense, since I think it`s "live"), and that could be easily before.
That leads to the question: when did they record together (and where)? As far as I know, they started to go different ways after Thriller (1982) because Jacko was now so famous. So their sessions would be from the HS era.
State Of Shock was released in 1984 (with Mick Jagger instead of Fred) in the Victory album (according to FM in a Munich interview in 1984, Victory, the song, was written by Michael and himself), but remember the Victory album was more a posthumous one, not in the matter that someone was dead, but in the matter that Jacksons Five didn`t actually exist anymore (even though they later on released a couple of things without Michael). I think Victory was their first album in five years or so; then State could be from anytime between 1978/1979 and 1984. Makes sense again.
Fred said he didn`t like to use "rejects" in albums, he wanted to write new material. But There must Be more to Life could be the exception of the rule (if so, thank God it was, since it`s a very nice song).
I do find it, compositionally speaking, a little more Works-esque/MrBadGuy-esque, than from early 80s, but still that`s a "clue", not an "evidence".
Deaconfan... This has absolutely nothing to do with money.
Everyone collects something. Some collect stamps. Others collect rare cigars, fine malts, or rare wines.
This has nothing to do with finaces - that is just what collectors do. I collect Queen. I have done so for over 30 years.
All of these collectors have "prized" possessions.
It may be a cigar owned by Churchill, or a genuine bottle of Napoleon brandy - or whatever.
My point is that I would never dream of saying to someone "give me a drag of your cigar" or "hey, give me a glass of that fine wine". It would not be done.
Now, if that collector dies without ever opening that wine bottle, that is his perogative. Just because you don't have it - does not give you the right to dictate his use.
As for my own "prized possessions" - I wrote a few features for "Record Collector" magazine (surprise, surprise, because I collected records - music that is not documents!). It was other collectors who then asked me "tell me about this?", or "do you really have that?".
I could have been rude and said "P*ss-off", but I honestly answered their queeries the best I could, and in some cases swapped their "prizes" for mine. The rest is reputation.
Now, I am truely sorry if I offend your sensitivities, but that is the position I am in. I don't mind describing things, or helping fans out, but I am not going "pass the bottle around" simply because a few in here complain otherwise.
And that, as far as I can see, should be the topic closed.
Everyone collects something. Some collect stamps. Others collect rare cigars, fine malts, or rare wines.
This has nothing to do with finaces - that is just what collectors do. I collect Queen. I have done so for over 30 years.
All of these collectors have "prized" possessions.
It may be a cigar owned by Churchill, or a genuine bottle of Napoleon brandy - or whatever.
My point is that I would never dream of saying to someone "give me a drag of your cigar" or "hey, give me a glass of that fine wine". It would not be done.
Now, if that collector dies without ever opening that wine bottle, that is his perogative. Just because you don't have it - does not give you the right to dictate his use.
As for my own "prized possessions" - I wrote a few features for "Record Collector" magazine (surprise, surprise, because I collected records - music that is not documents!). It was other collectors who then asked me "tell me about this?", or "do you really have that?".
I could have been rude and said "P*ss-off", but I honestly answered their queeries the best I could, and in some cases swapped their "prizes" for mine. The rest is reputation.
Now, I am truely sorry if I offend your sensitivities, but that is the position I am in. I don't mind describing things, or helping fans out, but I am not going "pass the bottle around" simply because a few in here complain otherwise.
And that, as far as I can see, should be the topic closed.
Thanks to all for your information about Hot Space.
And JSS I can really understand why you do not want to share your collection with the rest of the world. Sometimes people just have to accept that they can't have everything they want in life.
JSS has worked hard to put his collection together, so why should he share it for free with the entire world?
Just be thankfull for what you get and don't offend people if they have something that you don't have.
And I really wish we could have more topics like this one about hot space or other albums or songs.
And JSS I can really understand why you do not want to share your collection with the rest of the world. Sometimes people just have to accept that they can't have everything they want in life.
JSS has worked hard to put his collection together, so why should he share it for free with the entire world?
Just be thankfull for what you get and don't offend people if they have something that you don't have.
And I really wish we could have more topics like this one about hot space or other albums or songs.
Sounds like a good plan. No more sharing from me either.
Many of you would have loved this extended mix of Mr. Bad Guy I'm working on.
Many of you would have loved this extended mix of Mr. Bad Guy I'm working on.
Sounds like a good plan. No more sharing from me either.
Many of you would have loved this extended mix of Mr. Bad Guy I'm working on.
Many of you would have loved this extended mix of Mr. Bad Guy I'm working on.
As for the "Hot Space" demos I noticed that "Back Chat" and "Staying Power" and "Under Pressure" are very different from the album versions.
Back Chat - a little bit extended, altered lyrics, more Freddie`s improvisation
Staying Power - the freakin` trumpet is out :) Brian`s guitar instead
Under Pressure - the first version entitled "Feel Like" totally different - another melody and lyrics, Bowie on the piano (not singing), the second (jam session) version more "rocky", much cooler than the original
Cool Cat - extra Bowie vocals (rap)
So they REALLY DIFFER :)
Back Chat - a little bit extended, altered lyrics, more Freddie`s improvisation
Staying Power - the freakin` trumpet is out :) Brian`s guitar instead
Under Pressure - the first version entitled "Feel Like" totally different - another melody and lyrics, Bowie on the piano (not singing), the second (jam session) version more "rocky", much cooler than the original
Cool Cat - extra Bowie vocals (rap)
So they REALLY DIFFER :)
How can you compare sharing recordings with "'give me a drag of your cigar' or 'hey, give me a glass of that fine wine'?" Better analogy please.
Peace,
Adam.
Peace,
Adam.
How can you compare sharing recordings with "'give me a drag of your cigar' or 'hey, give me a glass of that fine wine'?" Better analogy please.
Peace,
Adam.
I think it's fairly self-explanatory. The point is that he doesn't go around to other collectors begging for a share in their collections for free.
Adam Baboolal wrote: "How can you compare sharing recordings with "'give me a drag of your cigar' or 'hey, give me a glass of that fine wine'?" Better analogy please".
Adam please don't insult your own intelligence. I think the point is self-evident. Let's not try and complicate things beyond measure.
As Lester pointed out: I think it's fairly self-explanatory. The point is that he doesn't go around to other collectors begging for a share in their collections for free.
Adam please don't insult your own intelligence. I think the point is self-evident. Let's not try and complicate things beyond measure.
As Lester pointed out: I think it's fairly self-explanatory. The point is that he doesn't go around to other collectors begging for a share in their collections for free.
What has happened to this thread - it has all gone hay-wire!
My last mail was lost in page 2!
My last mail was lost in page 2!