Adam, you don't seem to uderstand. This Q&A (for the majority) is boring. It is a turgid, tedious read.
Most of the zone have fallen asleep reading it. It was meant to be a thread on "Queen's debut LP", NOT some "Great plane robbery". It is detracting from the validity of the thread, and it is now asking me things that I have absolutely NO idea about.
I do NOT want to talk about things like this because hell, even I find it boring. What do you think happened to the tapes? Am I interested - do I care?
So forgive me interjecting some humour to make this more palitable, but use your head, try working things out for yourself - and you know, while I am here - you are always complaining about something. How about "thanks" (even if it's jusyt for my time) for a change?
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Posts in chronological order
You're always doing this John. Turning things around and making out like other people are getting on your back about things. Now you criticise folk for the boring questions! But I never said your answer was bad. I was only objecting to the "humour" part.
If you want to continue answering people's boring questions, just keep things simple enough, i.e. don't add unnecesary and/or confusing information.
I get the feeling that you're going to take offence to this as well.
Peace,
Adam.
If you want to continue answering people's boring questions, just keep things simple enough, i.e. don't add unnecesary and/or confusing information.
I get the feeling that you're going to take offence to this as well.
Peace,
Adam.
How dare you inject a bit of personality into your posts, John!
All we want is information! Nobody asked you to be a standup comedian! Just deliver the facts, John!!
All we want is information! Nobody asked you to be a standup comedian! Just deliver the facts, John!!
For Adam - Take II
Adam Baboolal: "In your opinion - Stolen stuff is in the hands of collectors..?"
Very unlikely Adam. Personally, I have no idea where the "Stolen stuff is" - but I could guess for you - if you like.
These are big and heavy studio masters (perhaps Seb could help us out here) not portable cassette tapes or mini-discs. They would be useless to the likes of you or I because one would need very expensive specialist equipment to play or copy them.
In my opinion, to steal artifacts of such magnitude (both in terms of importance and financial value), one would need -
Motive: That is a reason to commit the crime in the first place, and what better reason could there be than finacial gain? (Even if this was only holding QP to ransom)
Means: That is the euipment and the ability to pull off a job like this. I would imagine (due to size and weight) that this would need at least two personages (one to pass and the other to receive) and I would also imagine a Transit type van or alternative storage and transport. I also think that maybe some fake I.D. and uniforms would need to be employed - so that the thieves would not look out of place. Therefore, I do not believe this would be the result of a casual or random theft, because both of these scenarios would be heavilly dependant on a stroke of very good fortune.
Opportunity: That is being in the right place at the right time, and knowing how to escape from the crime scene without being caught. (This may also point to a degree of planning or preperation on the part of the criminals).
Therefore, I don't think it was a few obsessive Queen fans, because this "evidence" suggests an "inside job" (an employee of EMI, Hollywood or BA - if it was a BA flight). I also think they were stolen to order (because I don't think it was a casual theft) so this must be the work of someone (or some gang) who knew exactly what they were doing.
After sifting through all the above evidence, my educated guess would be that a mafioso/gangland type group of criminals flooded either Asia or USSR with millions of fake pirates, so that they could maximise the profits from their ill-gotten gains.
For me, this would take a lot of "muscle", and therefore would NOT be in the hands of collectors.
Now that I have answered this question for you Adam, would you mind if I redirected the thread back to the original philosophy behind it - that is the discussing and exchange of information regarding the eponymous or debut "Queen" album?
Adam Baboolal: "In your opinion - Stolen stuff is in the hands of collectors..?"
Very unlikely Adam. Personally, I have no idea where the "Stolen stuff is" - but I could guess for you - if you like.
These are big and heavy studio masters (perhaps Seb could help us out here) not portable cassette tapes or mini-discs. They would be useless to the likes of you or I because one would need very expensive specialist equipment to play or copy them.
In my opinion, to steal artifacts of such magnitude (both in terms of importance and financial value), one would need -
Motive: That is a reason to commit the crime in the first place, and what better reason could there be than finacial gain? (Even if this was only holding QP to ransom)
Means: That is the euipment and the ability to pull off a job like this. I would imagine (due to size and weight) that this would need at least two personages (one to pass and the other to receive) and I would also imagine a Transit type van or alternative storage and transport. I also think that maybe some fake I.D. and uniforms would need to be employed - so that the thieves would not look out of place. Therefore, I do not believe this would be the result of a casual or random theft, because both of these scenarios would be heavilly dependant on a stroke of very good fortune.
Opportunity: That is being in the right place at the right time, and knowing how to escape from the crime scene without being caught. (This may also point to a degree of planning or preperation on the part of the criminals).
Therefore, I don't think it was a few obsessive Queen fans, because this "evidence" suggests an "inside job" (an employee of EMI, Hollywood or BA - if it was a BA flight). I also think they were stolen to order (because I don't think it was a casual theft) so this must be the work of someone (or some gang) who knew exactly what they were doing.
After sifting through all the above evidence, my educated guess would be that a mafioso/gangland type group of criminals flooded either Asia or USSR with millions of fake pirates, so that they could maximise the profits from their ill-gotten gains.
For me, this would take a lot of "muscle", and therefore would NOT be in the hands of collectors.
Now that I have answered this question for you Adam, would you mind if I redirected the thread back to the original philosophy behind it - that is the discussing and exchange of information regarding the eponymous or debut "Queen" album?
Since you`ve asked me to contribute, here`s all I can say:
Stolen stuff - No idea, and couldn`t care less. But, just a thought: maybe the one who stole it then spilled coca cola over it or something. So the stolen stuff could be rather consdiered "lost" than "in hands of some collector". That`s all about that.
Liar - Fred took one line from Lover and put it there. But it doesn`t mean they`re the same song. For example Good Old Fashioned has the "there he goes again" line as well as Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon, both placed near the end and in the harmonies, but it doesn`t mean Lazing is the demo or the working title of Good Old Fashioned. Lover & Liar are different songs. I`ve never heard Lover so I can`t tell differences about chords or stuff, but as far as I know, Lover was similar to Communication Breakdown. Oh yeah, and according to Brian Liar has one of the main riffs of Lover, which again doesn`t mean they`re the same song. The remaining 95% of both pieces are different.
Stone Cold Crazy - Some visitors of my web argued the opposite in this case: that the early SCC was a different song to the one in the album. Again, I can only talk from the "journalistic" material, since I never heard the early SCC. Fred told in the Circus tapes in 1977 that Stone Cold Crazy was the first song the band performed on stage. I think if it was a different song, he would have said so. If he said "Stone Cold Crazy" I think he meant THE `Stone Cold Crazy` people knew about (i.e. the one in Sheer Heart Attack). In a similar way the slow version of Hammer To Fall (performed by Brian in AW tour) is a different tempo, but the same song. Or those reggae versions of Beatles songs you find somewhere... they`re still the same songs.
Live Takes - Apparently a lot of the 70s material was done that way. Brian implies Bo Rhap was done that way too, in the documentary (the one in the DVD), while Roy said it was done in bits (hence each backing track would still be a live take, but not of the entire 5:55); according to what John (Deacon) said in 1976, almost all the first album was done very quickly, they just played their live set and then added some vocals and guitars. He mentioned My Fairy King as the exception since it was written in the studio.
By "quickly" I mean he meant that there were so little hours they could actually work in the studio, because as we know it wasn`t "quick" measuring it by months or years.
According to Brian, some of the material of the second album had already been written at the time they recorded the first. It does make sense considering Ogre Battle was (I think) already part of the set-list. White Queen was written while Brian was in college.
I think that`s all I can say about it. For now at least.
Stolen stuff - No idea, and couldn`t care less. But, just a thought: maybe the one who stole it then spilled coca cola over it or something. So the stolen stuff could be rather consdiered "lost" than "in hands of some collector". That`s all about that.
Liar - Fred took one line from Lover and put it there. But it doesn`t mean they`re the same song. For example Good Old Fashioned has the "there he goes again" line as well as Lazing On A Sunday Afternoon, both placed near the end and in the harmonies, but it doesn`t mean Lazing is the demo or the working title of Good Old Fashioned. Lover & Liar are different songs. I`ve never heard Lover so I can`t tell differences about chords or stuff, but as far as I know, Lover was similar to Communication Breakdown. Oh yeah, and according to Brian Liar has one of the main riffs of Lover, which again doesn`t mean they`re the same song. The remaining 95% of both pieces are different.
Stone Cold Crazy - Some visitors of my web argued the opposite in this case: that the early SCC was a different song to the one in the album. Again, I can only talk from the "journalistic" material, since I never heard the early SCC. Fred told in the Circus tapes in 1977 that Stone Cold Crazy was the first song the band performed on stage. I think if it was a different song, he would have said so. If he said "Stone Cold Crazy" I think he meant THE `Stone Cold Crazy` people knew about (i.e. the one in Sheer Heart Attack). In a similar way the slow version of Hammer To Fall (performed by Brian in AW tour) is a different tempo, but the same song. Or those reggae versions of Beatles songs you find somewhere... they`re still the same songs.
Live Takes - Apparently a lot of the 70s material was done that way. Brian implies Bo Rhap was done that way too, in the documentary (the one in the DVD), while Roy said it was done in bits (hence each backing track would still be a live take, but not of the entire 5:55); according to what John (Deacon) said in 1976, almost all the first album was done very quickly, they just played their live set and then added some vocals and guitars. He mentioned My Fairy King as the exception since it was written in the studio.
By "quickly" I mean he meant that there were so little hours they could actually work in the studio, because as we know it wasn`t "quick" measuring it by months or years.
According to Brian, some of the material of the second album had already been written at the time they recorded the first. It does make sense considering Ogre Battle was (I think) already part of the set-list. White Queen was written while Brian was in college.
I think that`s all I can say about it. For now at least.
just a word about "recording live in the studio"
most of the songs are recorded live in the studio, except the ones which are looped on the backing track. The usual backing track is drums, bass, guitar (on Freddies songs often piano instead), followed by separat vocal takes and overdubs. Depending on how many tracks they can use, some tracks are punched (mixed together) to two separate tracks (left and right), therefor it is quite hard to "remaster" such kinds of recordings to DVD-A for example. because you cannot unwrap these punched tracks. but thats another topic.
Mack was a friend of live recordings in the studio, together with all the mistakes - he edited the mistaken tracks afterwards. he says, this way it sounds fresher, and often the first take is the best.
most of the songs are recorded live in the studio, except the ones which are looped on the backing track. The usual backing track is drums, bass, guitar (on Freddies songs often piano instead), followed by separat vocal takes and overdubs. Depending on how many tracks they can use, some tracks are punched (mixed together) to two separate tracks (left and right), therefor it is quite hard to "remaster" such kinds of recordings to DVD-A for example. because you cannot unwrap these punched tracks. but thats another topic.
Mack was a friend of live recordings in the studio, together with all the mistakes - he edited the mistaken tracks afterwards. he says, this way it sounds fresher, and often the first take is the best.
Ok Sebastian what do you think about my comment that DOg with a bone was already created during these sessions? Because it sounds very raw. It sounds pretty much like the songs from that era.
It could be that Dog with a bone was already created back then, but that the band wasn't satisfied with it and put it away, and later on used it for the fanclub convention in 87 or so.
It could be that Dog with a bone was already created back then, but that the band wasn't satisfied with it and put it away, and later on used it for the fanclub convention in 87 or so.
Queen: Unreleased Live City Hall, Newcastle, 22nd November 1973
A Cry Of A Screaming Pain That’s Born From Sorrow Bootleg LP
Procession, Father To Son, Son & Daughter, Ogre Battle, Hangman, Keep Yourself Alive, Liar, Jailhouse Rock.
Genuine? I thought it was a fake. But this is only based on the fact that I 'read it somewhere', or 'heard it somewhere'. I've just been searching the internet, but failed to find more info. Yes, I have to admit, that on my old website, I have also linked this bootleg with Newcastle 1973.
Unfortunately I don't have that bootleg, to listen to it and compare it with the others.
Cheers,
Tim
Newcastle 73 is fake, of course (or at least my copy for sure :-) John - you're a great expert on studio recordings but you shouldn't talk too much about live recordings :-)
To one and all: Thank you for your contributions. I think that this is good for the whole of "Queenzone" and not just our little corner.
Mr Scully: I will edit this accordingly. Like many here, I have a lot of live concerts on various formats (to be honest, which I never listen to) and I have taken this information directly from the LP sleeve.
I do know that you have actually trawlled through hours and hours of live tapes, and have actually been able to identify very accurately, the gig these sets are taken from. I will post a link to your site below.
Also: (Not only this concert but others) - Is it possible to have various recordings of the same concert but in different quality? (I don't meant the differences between LP and MP3 copies - more like different sources?).
Visit Mr Scully's "Concertography":
www.QueenConcerts.com/
Edit: Martin, I have removed the "Cry Of Screaming Pain" reference from the page. I could not give you credit there - so I have done so - here.
PS: Even this small piece of information has made a huge difference and improved the original piece, and that is exactly what I hoped for from this thread. As I said before, please feel free to contribute as no piece of trivia is too small.
Mr Scully: I will edit this accordingly. Like many here, I have a lot of live concerts on various formats (to be honest, which I never listen to) and I have taken this information directly from the LP sleeve.
I do know that you have actually trawlled through hours and hours of live tapes, and have actually been able to identify very accurately, the gig these sets are taken from. I will post a link to your site below.
Also: (Not only this concert but others) - Is it possible to have various recordings of the same concert but in different quality? (I don't meant the differences between LP and MP3 copies - more like different sources?).
Visit Mr Scully's "Concertography":
www.QueenConcerts.com/
Edit: Martin, I have removed the "Cry Of Screaming Pain" reference from the page. I could not give you credit there - so I have done so - here.
PS: Even this small piece of information has made a huge difference and improved the original piece, and that is exactly what I hoped for from this thread. As I said before, please feel free to contribute as no piece of trivia is too small.
Also: (Not only this concert but others) - Is it possible to have various recordings of the same concert but in different quality? (I don't meant the differences between LP and MP3 copies - more like different sources?).
Of course this is possible. For example there are more (audience) sources from the Knebworth show available (two?). Also the show from Apr. 30, 1978 Zurich has different sources. But most of the shows come from the same source though.
Cheers,
Tim
ps. wasn't the gig on "born from sorrow" actually Bristol 1973?
I confess I have only listened to Dog with A Bone once, and even then I wasn`t paying much attention, so no idea :)
I confess I have only listened to Dog with A Bone once, and even then I wasn`t paying much attention, so no idea :)
Do you have an idea about this mr scully or JSS or someone else?
I confess I have only listened to Dog with A Bone once, and even then I wasn`t paying much attention, so no idea :)
Ok thanks,
Maybe mr scully or JSS know some more about this?
Thanks Sebastian,
maybe mr scully or JSS know some more about this?
maybe mr scully or JSS know some more about this?