Moët Et Chandin
October 1980 New York
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TRS-Romania
If you read about HIV infection (and its symptoms) one might say that right around 1984 Freddie had more than once health issues with his voice especially when the Sun City concerts (3 of them!) were cancelled due to throat problems. Of course Freddie had more than once problems with his vocal chords, but not as in cancelling 3 concerts in a row.... There is also a report on his doctors advising him not to perform at Live Aid in 1985 due to ...vocal chord problems...
I am not saying this is caused just by HIV, but it seems in 1984-1985 Freddie had more issues with his voice than ever before. Were these innocent throat infections? Perhaps. Maybe these were the first signs of a less effective immune system, that only later on showed it signs. Mind you that the first properly approved AIDS testing only appeared in 1985 ... and even those tests could give false positives.
I therefore assume Freddie got a false positive when he first tested in 1985 (HIV has several strains that in Freddie's case might not have been detected at the time) , and probably Freddie's inner voice in 1985 told him that something was wrong with him or that he considered his life style too risky, whereas he abruptly left the Munich gay scene to settle down back in London with Jim.
Still, Freddie cheated on Jim in 1986, thus assuming that even in 1986 he was not officially diagnosed with HIV/AIDS, as I would assume Freddie would have never infected Jim, if he would have known he was HIV positive.
Probably after being infected with HIV in 1984 - he therefore initially suffered from some early symptoms, that later during the end of the year "settled down" only to show up more severely after the Magic Tour into early 1987. Maybe Freddie felt something was wrong in 1985 , but his first AIDS diagnosis was in April of 1987 ... (and I am really assuming that he did not get any positive HIV/AIDS diagnostic before that date, as he was with Jim - and Freddie would have never had unsafe sex with Jim if he would have known - as a fact - that he had HIV-AIDS)
Just my 2 cents on the subject ...
I am not saying this is caused just by HIV, but it seems in 1984-1985 Freddie had more issues with his voice than ever before. Were these innocent throat infections? Perhaps. Maybe these were the first signs of a less effective immune system, that only later on showed it signs. Mind you that the first properly approved AIDS testing only appeared in 1985 ... and even those tests could give false positives.
I therefore assume Freddie got a false positive when he first tested in 1985 (HIV has several strains that in Freddie's case might not have been detected at the time) , and probably Freddie's inner voice in 1985 told him that something was wrong with him or that he considered his life style too risky, whereas he abruptly left the Munich gay scene to settle down back in London with Jim.
Still, Freddie cheated on Jim in 1986, thus assuming that even in 1986 he was not officially diagnosed with HIV/AIDS, as I would assume Freddie would have never infected Jim, if he would have known he was HIV positive.
Probably after being infected with HIV in 1984 - he therefore initially suffered from some early symptoms, that later during the end of the year "settled down" only to show up more severely after the Magic Tour into early 1987. Maybe Freddie felt something was wrong in 1985 , but his first AIDS diagnosis was in April of 1987 ... (and I am really assuming that he did not get any positive HIV/AIDS diagnostic before that date, as he was with Jim - and Freddie would have never had unsafe sex with Jim if he would have known - as a fact - that he had HIV-AIDS)
Just my 2 cents on the subject ...
Invisible Woman
If the exact date when he was infected known, that wouldn't change anything.Freddie didn't know for sure either when was infected.He probably had some doubts but "to know" and "suspect" isn't the same.Of course he wasn't a saint, but I don't believe that he would consciously endanger people with the possibility of infecting them.
I read this topic and i decide to say something about this topic.
But I was thinking about something else.
Those rumors that he knew he was HIV positive before 1987(1984?) was based on Mary Austin,David Wigg and Barbara Valentin statements.But why would it be true that they said and not true what Jim Hutton and Peter Freeston said?
1986 year, after Freddie and Jim returned from Japan, the tabloids published the story that Freddie did HIV test and test was positive.If it's true that only Mary,David and Barbara knew that he was positive,by that logic, some of them sold the story to that newspaper.
I am inclined to believe that these statements are merely an attempt to prove that they had a great significance in his life, greater than Jim and the other friends.
I believe in what Jim and Peter said. I think Freddie wouldn't be able to hide it from them for years.
These are just some of my thoughts and don't have to be true. I wouldn't have anything to say about this.
I read this topic and i decide to say something about this topic.
But I was thinking about something else.
Those rumors that he knew he was HIV positive before 1987(1984?) was based on Mary Austin,David Wigg and Barbara Valentin statements.But why would it be true that they said and not true what Jim Hutton and Peter Freeston said?
1986 year, after Freddie and Jim returned from Japan, the tabloids published the story that Freddie did HIV test and test was positive.If it's true that only Mary,David and Barbara knew that he was positive,by that logic, some of them sold the story to that newspaper.
I am inclined to believe that these statements are merely an attempt to prove that they had a great significance in his life, greater than Jim and the other friends.
I believe in what Jim and Peter said. I think Freddie wouldn't be able to hide it from them for years.
These are just some of my thoughts and don't have to be true. I wouldn't have anything to say about this.
Moët Et Chandin
"It" happened somewhere in the US, highly likely in NY, 1977 - 1980. End of.
Chopin1995
Freddie got HIV between 1946 and 1991. End of story!
Queenman!!
[QUOTE] [b]Invisible Woman wrote:[/b]
If the exact date when he was infected known, that wouldn't change anything.Freddie didn't know for sure either when was infected.He probably had some doubts but "to know" and "suspect" isn't the same.Of course he wasn't a saint, but I don't believe that he would consciously endanger people with the possibility of infecting them.
I read this topic and i decide to say something about this topic.
But I was thinking about something else.
Those rumors that he knew he was HIV positive before 1987(1984?) was based on Mary Austin,David Wigg and Barbara Valentin statements.But why would it be true that they said and not true what Jim Hutton and Peter Freeston said?
1986 year, after Freddie and Jim returned from Japan, the tabloids published the story that Freddie did HIV test and test was positive.If it's true that only Mary,David and Barbara knew that he was positive,by that logic, some of them sold the story to that newspaper.
I am inclined to believe that these statements are merely an attempt to prove that they had a great significance in his life, greater than Jim and the other friends.
I believe in what Jim and Peter said. I think Freddie wouldn't be able to hide it from them for year
[QUOTE]
===============================
According to Peter Phoebe Freestone it's most likely Freddie contracted the virus in or around the New York gay scene. Early eighties.(1980-1982) This was asked a lot at him at the conventions.
If the exact date when he was infected known, that wouldn't change anything.Freddie didn't know for sure either when was infected.He probably had some doubts but "to know" and "suspect" isn't the same.Of course he wasn't a saint, but I don't believe that he would consciously endanger people with the possibility of infecting them.
I read this topic and i decide to say something about this topic.
But I was thinking about something else.
Those rumors that he knew he was HIV positive before 1987(1984?) was based on Mary Austin,David Wigg and Barbara Valentin statements.But why would it be true that they said and not true what Jim Hutton and Peter Freeston said?
1986 year, after Freddie and Jim returned from Japan, the tabloids published the story that Freddie did HIV test and test was positive.If it's true that only Mary,David and Barbara knew that he was positive,by that logic, some of them sold the story to that newspaper.
I am inclined to believe that these statements are merely an attempt to prove that they had a great significance in his life, greater than Jim and the other friends.
I believe in what Jim and Peter said. I think Freddie wouldn't be able to hide it from them for year
[QUOTE]
===============================
According to Peter Phoebe Freestone it's most likely Freddie contracted the virus in or around the New York gay scene. Early eighties.(1980-1982) This was asked a lot at him at the conventions.
Seed_Of_Rhy
[quote] According to Peter Phoebe Freestone it's most likely Freddie contracted the virus in or around the New York gay scene. Early eighties.(1980-1982) This was asked a lot at him at the conventions. [/quote]
Me too think this most likely timespan...
As one can see in Montreal '81 video close ups on Freddie (ex. when on the piano) he already has the marks of herpes or something similar on his left cheek. its quite pale though, but becomes visible when the skin stretches
Me too think this most likely timespan...
As one can see in Montreal '81 video close ups on Freddie (ex. when on the piano) he already has the marks of herpes or something similar on his left cheek. its quite pale though, but becomes visible when the skin stretches
Sponge Caves
[QUOTE] [b]Invisible Woman wrote:[/b]
If the exact date when he was infected known, that wouldn't change anything.Freddie didn't know for sure either when was infected.He probably had some doubts but "to know" and "suspect" isn't the same.Of course he wasn't a saint, but I don't believe that he would consciously endanger people with the possibility of infecting them.
I read this topic and i decide to say something about this topic.
But I was thinking about something else.
Those rumors that he knew he was HIV positive before 1987(1984?) was based on Mary Austin,David Wigg and Barbara Valentin statements.But why would it be true that they said and not true what Jim Hutton and Peter Freeston said?
1986 year, after Freddie and Jim returned from Japan, the tabloids published the story that Freddie did HIV test and test was positive.If it's true that only Mary,David and Barbara knew that he was positive,by that logic, some of them sold the story to that newspaper.
I am inclined to believe that these statements are merely an attempt to prove that they had a great significance in his life, greater than Jim and the other friends.
I believe in what Jim and Peter said. I think Freddie wouldn't be able to hide it from them for years.
These are just some of my thoughts and don't have to be true. I wouldn't have anything to say about this.
[/QUOTE]
THIS ^^ I think personally these people were all battling it out to prove they knew Freddie most intimately too - I agree with you 100%. Like a pissing contest. Especially the women lol.
Barbara talks 100% guff 100% of the time. Literally nothing she says can be corroborated by anyone else and she just wanted to look like she was in on the big AIDS secret, even though she admitted he didn't tell her a thing about it. She claims to know he had HIV (SYMPTOMATIC AS WELL, WITH FEVERS AND THROAT TUMOURS lol !!!) as early as 84, yet claims she had unprotected sex with him regardless. Doesn't seem likely that no one else noticed his symptoms for another 3 years after she did. Doesn't seem likely that she'd have sex with an obviously symptomatic HIV sufferer. But then the whole sex thing between them is utterly implausible, but I won't go into that here. Not the place!
Mary also came up with 1984, but let's be honest here, she isn't the most trustworthy source either.
Example 1 being that she has two or three very different stories about the time Freddie came out as gay to her.
Example 2 is her claim his career was 'sagging' and he was about to "implode" during the in 86/87 when he was actually embarking on the new project with the TGP and negotiating work with Montserrat Caballe/Mike Moran. Just because she was his close friend does not mean she is correct and to me it looks like she has a bad memory. Also she has the 'wife' role to play so wants to act like she was the most in the know. Okay so it's likely Freddie told her before anyone else but not in 1984 when the HIV test wasn't even released til 1985. It's yet another example of her not giving a clear narrative or correct dates.
David Wigg gets most of his information from Mary so is just parroting her. He also makes lots of incorrect statements in his interviews.
If the exact date when he was infected known, that wouldn't change anything.Freddie didn't know for sure either when was infected.He probably had some doubts but "to know" and "suspect" isn't the same.Of course he wasn't a saint, but I don't believe that he would consciously endanger people with the possibility of infecting them.
I read this topic and i decide to say something about this topic.
But I was thinking about something else.
Those rumors that he knew he was HIV positive before 1987(1984?) was based on Mary Austin,David Wigg and Barbara Valentin statements.But why would it be true that they said and not true what Jim Hutton and Peter Freeston said?
1986 year, after Freddie and Jim returned from Japan, the tabloids published the story that Freddie did HIV test and test was positive.If it's true that only Mary,David and Barbara knew that he was positive,by that logic, some of them sold the story to that newspaper.
I am inclined to believe that these statements are merely an attempt to prove that they had a great significance in his life, greater than Jim and the other friends.
I believe in what Jim and Peter said. I think Freddie wouldn't be able to hide it from them for years.
These are just some of my thoughts and don't have to be true. I wouldn't have anything to say about this.
[/QUOTE]
THIS ^^ I think personally these people were all battling it out to prove they knew Freddie most intimately too - I agree with you 100%. Like a pissing contest. Especially the women lol.
Barbara talks 100% guff 100% of the time. Literally nothing she says can be corroborated by anyone else and she just wanted to look like she was in on the big AIDS secret, even though she admitted he didn't tell her a thing about it. She claims to know he had HIV (SYMPTOMATIC AS WELL, WITH FEVERS AND THROAT TUMOURS lol !!!) as early as 84, yet claims she had unprotected sex with him regardless. Doesn't seem likely that no one else noticed his symptoms for another 3 years after she did. Doesn't seem likely that she'd have sex with an obviously symptomatic HIV sufferer. But then the whole sex thing between them is utterly implausible, but I won't go into that here. Not the place!
Mary also came up with 1984, but let's be honest here, she isn't the most trustworthy source either.
Example 1 being that she has two or three very different stories about the time Freddie came out as gay to her.
Example 2 is her claim his career was 'sagging' and he was about to "implode" during the in 86/87 when he was actually embarking on the new project with the TGP and negotiating work with Montserrat Caballe/Mike Moran. Just because she was his close friend does not mean she is correct and to me it looks like she has a bad memory. Also she has the 'wife' role to play so wants to act like she was the most in the know. Okay so it's likely Freddie told her before anyone else but not in 1984 when the HIV test wasn't even released til 1985. It's yet another example of her not giving a clear narrative or correct dates.
David Wigg gets most of his information from Mary so is just parroting her. He also makes lots of incorrect statements in his interviews.
Sponge Caves
Sponge Caves
Sorry about the empty quote reply above - my reply didn't post for some bizarre reason. See above it for my reply!
Beverly Andrews
Had he not died in 1991 of AIDS-related pneumonia.
Moët Et Chandin
17 November 1978, 05:07 hrs New York City
miraclesteinway
This topic seems to keep coming up. I suppose it's biographical information pertinent to his death and therefore the cessation of his music, although it does seem like some people on here are attracted to discussing the more morbid aspects of life.
My only contribution is that in 1987 Freddie found out he had AIDS. His test showed, according to Peter Freestone, that he had full-blown AIDS and was not simply HIV positive. I would reason that he was testing fairly regularly by that point and knew that he was infected before then.
I posted on this forum before about a friend of mine who worked in the testing clinics in the 1980s. Around 2002 or could have been 03, 04, memory isn't all that reliable (before I personally knew about this forum) she told me that the clinic where she worked tested Freddie's sample and it proved positive. They were sworn to secrecy and not one of them leaked anything to the press as far as she knows. According to her it was about 1984, 85, and she didn't work for the clinic much longer after that. Now whether it was actually 1987 and she got her year wrong, I don't know. What she told me was that she was waiting for the story to break about Freddie for the best part of a decade before he died (1984 to 1991 is the best part of a decade), and that she knew he was ill long before the public suspected anything.
This would tie in with Mary Austin's account. It's difficult to know because the AIDS timeline around the early 80s is still very murky. People were only just becoming aware of what it was and how it worked, and some people didn't realise it was sexually transmitted. Some infected people would go in to denial (quite a natural reaction), and others would probably have more readily accepted.
There are accounts of Freddie's general health not being so good around 1984-85, so perhaps that ties in with some kind of flare up. That said, anything is possible. Catching a cold or flu can't necessarily be attributed to a complication of early-stage HIV even in an infected person, and without actually going back to the year 1984 and being Freddie's doctor and living Freddie's life, we're probably never going to know.
By the way in 1986-7 Freddie possibly did feel his career was sagging. He was working on that solo project which he abandoned in favour of Barcelona, he may have felt a little down after the massive tour with Queen (the massive, and hugely successful tour), and the Kind of Magic LP did well but it wasn't the kind of success which he craved. The Mr Bad Guy LP was a failure, and perhaps he still felt that niggling somewhere inside, and he also knew he was ill and probably going to die. That he went on to produce music at all after this was a miracle. Excuse the pun...
My only contribution is that in 1987 Freddie found out he had AIDS. His test showed, according to Peter Freestone, that he had full-blown AIDS and was not simply HIV positive. I would reason that he was testing fairly regularly by that point and knew that he was infected before then.
I posted on this forum before about a friend of mine who worked in the testing clinics in the 1980s. Around 2002 or could have been 03, 04, memory isn't all that reliable (before I personally knew about this forum) she told me that the clinic where she worked tested Freddie's sample and it proved positive. They were sworn to secrecy and not one of them leaked anything to the press as far as she knows. According to her it was about 1984, 85, and she didn't work for the clinic much longer after that. Now whether it was actually 1987 and she got her year wrong, I don't know. What she told me was that she was waiting for the story to break about Freddie for the best part of a decade before he died (1984 to 1991 is the best part of a decade), and that she knew he was ill long before the public suspected anything.
This would tie in with Mary Austin's account. It's difficult to know because the AIDS timeline around the early 80s is still very murky. People were only just becoming aware of what it was and how it worked, and some people didn't realise it was sexually transmitted. Some infected people would go in to denial (quite a natural reaction), and others would probably have more readily accepted.
There are accounts of Freddie's general health not being so good around 1984-85, so perhaps that ties in with some kind of flare up. That said, anything is possible. Catching a cold or flu can't necessarily be attributed to a complication of early-stage HIV even in an infected person, and without actually going back to the year 1984 and being Freddie's doctor and living Freddie's life, we're probably never going to know.
By the way in 1986-7 Freddie possibly did feel his career was sagging. He was working on that solo project which he abandoned in favour of Barcelona, he may have felt a little down after the massive tour with Queen (the massive, and hugely successful tour), and the Kind of Magic LP did well but it wasn't the kind of success which he craved. The Mr Bad Guy LP was a failure, and perhaps he still felt that niggling somewhere inside, and he also knew he was ill and probably going to die. That he went on to produce music at all after this was a miracle. Excuse the pun...
dudley-fufkin 7834
Whats with all the aids stuff? Everyone knows freddie died of man flu!
dudley-fufkin 7834
Whats with all the aids stuff? Everyone knows freddie died of man flu!