Yes. It can happen. It's not common though. Freddie developed a Kaposi Sarcoma lesion on his arm, which prompted him to get tested and eventually get diagnosed. Now, there was these medical articles I've read, stating that Kaposi Sarcoma really is one of the milder of opportunistic infections one can acquire and that AIDS patients diagnosed with it have a much better prognosis... than, for example, patients diagnosed with pneumonia, which especially in the early 80s, was absolutely ravaging. Also, KS is not lethal generally, unless it affects your internal organs, especially your lungs.
There is also the chance that, his immune system was still not in as worse condition as a regular AIDS patient, as Kaposi Sarcoma is known to surface even at higher levels of CD4 helper cells, (the cells which are attacked by the virus) though it's less likely.
Finally, he did take what medication was available. Medication at that time could prolong life of AIDS patients for a few months.
There are many variables to AIDS prognosis. Most generally die within one year of diagnostic, without medication, but some manage to live on for years. For Freddie, I'd say, AIDS effects really started showing in 1989. Which explains the drastic loss of weight. In 1988-1987, I'd suspect he was more troubled by the profound side effects of the medication taken, than by the disease itself. They were using AZT at that time, but they were prescribing very large doses of it, which made it very intoxicating to the human body.
The same variability goes for HIV incubation period. You have people who have maintained a reasonable CD4 count for decades after infection, though even those people, show decrease in their immune capacity. You also have people who experience very rapid progression, taking in the span of months or a few years for the first symptoms to surface. The median for incubation is around 10 years, but that's an average, which is why I prefer tracking infection through risk events, rather than a median incubation period. In Freddie's case, we know he began living this promiscuous life in the 1978. We also know that one of his partners was likely to have been infected at the time of a 1 year relationship, in 1979-1980. Finally, New York was one of the cities most heavily hit by disease and we know Queen spent quite a bit of time there. All really point out to 1978 - 1982 being the main period of infection, more likely near the beginning of the interval.
I think chances are very good that Freddie has been exposed to HIV strands from different people. From those exposures, you need only one to click and result in infection. I say this especially when looking at Freddie's track record. Tony Bastin, Bill Reid, Winnie the German all died of AIDS years before Freddie did and all had relationships with Freddie. And those are only official relationships.
Thread
Posts in chronological order
There is also the rumour that Freddie and Kenny Everett shared a lover in somebody called Nikolai who died of aids way before Freddie, so they both could of got it from him
Its unfortunate that Freddie got the disease when the drugs were not strong enough to help him survive like people can nowadays
Its unfortunate that Freddie got the disease when the drugs were not strong enough to help him survive like people can nowadays
I think there are good chances Nikolai infected Everett who died 12-13 years after that exposure . (a number close to the median of life after HIV exposure, especially considering the advancement in medication) But I believe both Nikolai and Freddie were already infected at that time. Though of course, it is possible that infection was triggered by this event, just not that likely, given the many events that happened before this one.
si porque si estuvo con barbara valentin y ella no murió de sida y el siguiente fue winnie kirchberger y luego conoció a jim hutton que murió de sida, después que freddie
Freddie´s loves, channel 5, part 5
minuto 3:56
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Iw1zyV6kw
bárbara: 3:40
Freddie´s loves, channel 5, part 5
minuto 3:56
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Iw1zyV6kw
bárbara: 3:40
I susbscribe to the theory that Freddie had suspected or at least feared that he was sick for a long time before his diagnosis. I don't believe the test results in 1987 came as a surprise, as such. People often dismiss Briain's quotes that he felt during the Magic tour that Freddie knew on the basis his diagnosis wasn't until nearly a year later but it's not unlikely that Freddie had ignored signs/symptoms for a while before hand before finally getting checked out. Given Mary's version of events of Freddie ignoring the phone call from the doctor for a while it does suggest he was understandably having a hard time facing up to it.
It may well have been something that had concerned him for a year or two before it was 'official'.So to date when he was infected becomes very difficult. If HIV can lay 'dormant', as it were, inside the body for years then it could have happened any time.
It may well have been something that had concerned him for a year or two before it was 'official'.So to date when he was infected becomes very difficult. If HIV can lay 'dormant', as it were, inside the body for years then it could have happened any time.
This is the post no one wants to read, and Im saying that as a huge fan of Queen and FM.I like ivqs post; a lot of it makes sense. Anyone who thinks Freddie was infected in the mid 80s is crazy, but I think there's a catch. I think that, while Freddie was definitely in increasing danger from 1978 onwards, I dont think he was actually infected until the fall of 1980, if not 1981. Freddie and Tony, from what I've read, met at the very end of 1979 when Queen were on the crazy tour, and were together from 1980 until 1982 (they did not split in 1980, and I have seen a picture of Bastin an Freddie with Everett and that Russian that looks like its from the Hot space period). As for Fanelli; I'm not sure that he would even have been infected when him and Freddie were together. That would mean Fanelli lived with HIV for almost 15 years and, without treatment, thats an extremely long time. Bastin, again from what I read, stuck to the UK while Freddie went abroad to the very worst possible place and did "everything with everybody" in New York City. Even though Tony died first, I don't believe Tony infected Freddie; I think Freddie went to NY in '80/'81, got infected there by some faceless stranger, came back and infected Tony (thats why i say this is the post no one wants to read). HIV doesnt come with a manual; in some people it takes 20 years to progress to AIDS without treatment; in others it takes ten weeks! There are a lot of people who, in absence of treatment, progress to AIDS in 4 or 5 years, and Tony was likely unfortunate enough to be one of them. I also think Freddie infected his German lover and Hutton and many many more. Then again, that stranger may not have been so faceless; there was an airline steward that Freddie met in NY in 1980/81 that he slept with and that man later died of AIDS as well. I think his name was Murphy....HIV was far more prevalent in 1980/81 than it was in 1978/79, and from what I read, Freddie was a lot more aggressive as far as New York went than he was even 2 years before. That being said, he is no more guilty being infected in 1981 vs 1979. Even as late as 1983 nothing really conclusive was known about AIDS at all. I also dont think the initial exposure/infection was what sealed his fate; i think he was reinfected many times and for him to live 5 years with full blown AIDS is extraordinary. And yes; if today's drugs had been around in 1991, we'd probably still have him. Maybe if he wasnt reinfected so many times, he actually wouldve lived long enough to get them in the mid 90s! Regardless of when he was infected and who he infected, we all post on this site because we love the man and his music. Nothing could ever change that.
I was 15 in 1985. I was really into studying sciences and especially biology, it was 1985 that people were officially made aware of AIDS. Not before. I would have known.
The gay community may have heard about it a little while before, but only as some strange, nameless disease that appeared to have killed some gay men in san francisco (that's when it was first heard about - but a lot of people thought it was propaganda against gay people....after all why would only gay people and not straight people get a disease?).
Something else needs to be said too. No one had really heard about condoms back then, or if they had they were some laughable rubber things that maybe old granddads had used before the pill came about in the 60's. They were totally uncool back then...to the point of not even being thought about as an option. You probably wouldn't have seen many condoms in a chemist, not like today where they are everywhere. This was certainly NOT the case back then.
I say that because nowadays maybe people think it's easy, use a condom, be safe......but we are talking the early 80's....no one ever died from sex back then (of course it was all set to change but at that point no one knew.
And to top it all off, promiscuity was actually becoming fashionable. There were teenage magazines with articles in on 'How to Have a One Night Stand.' The 80's was all about equality for women too, a lot of people never wanted to get married and the moral aspects of promiscuity were just seen as old fashioned.
A lot of this has changed, but when people think about Freddie's behaviour, it surely must be seen within that context. I'm talking of my memories from a heterosexual viewpoint, but for a gay or bisexual man in those times things were suddenly becoming liberated. The gay clubs were a way of gaining acceptance from others similar to yourself.
If promiscuity was no longer seen as a bad thing, marriage was not particularly fashionable and there were clubs that accepted you as a gay person, AND you were a rockstar...and everyone was doing it without judgement....well I just think his behaviour becomes more understandable.
Try to think of a world where AIDS had never been. That was the world he was living in.
You've only got to listen to him in interviews to get a sense of a good person, a caring person.
It's been suggested that Freddie's behaviour changed in 1985. Some people think it's because he knew he was sick. My guess is he was worried, but at that time EVERYONE was worried by the government campaign to raise awareness. It was a talking point, but not before. My friends and I were terrified of it. For a time teenagers were scared even to kiss each other.
People criticise Freddie for being promiscuous when AIDS was about....if you look at the timeline, he was reported to be promiscuous before anyone was aware of it. He changed his behaviour at the same time as most people did. Sadly for him, due to travelling, etc, it was already too late.
You know that's why I think the gay community showed so much dignity at that time....and think what a tragic and dreadful time in history that was....but they all pulled together, you didn't hear any blaming of each other. Even in Freddie's circles you haven't really heard blaming, just dignity and sadness from those left behind.
The virus is to blame.
The gay community may have heard about it a little while before, but only as some strange, nameless disease that appeared to have killed some gay men in san francisco (that's when it was first heard about - but a lot of people thought it was propaganda against gay people....after all why would only gay people and not straight people get a disease?).
Something else needs to be said too. No one had really heard about condoms back then, or if they had they were some laughable rubber things that maybe old granddads had used before the pill came about in the 60's. They were totally uncool back then...to the point of not even being thought about as an option. You probably wouldn't have seen many condoms in a chemist, not like today where they are everywhere. This was certainly NOT the case back then.
I say that because nowadays maybe people think it's easy, use a condom, be safe......but we are talking the early 80's....no one ever died from sex back then (of course it was all set to change but at that point no one knew.
And to top it all off, promiscuity was actually becoming fashionable. There were teenage magazines with articles in on 'How to Have a One Night Stand.' The 80's was all about equality for women too, a lot of people never wanted to get married and the moral aspects of promiscuity were just seen as old fashioned.
A lot of this has changed, but when people think about Freddie's behaviour, it surely must be seen within that context. I'm talking of my memories from a heterosexual viewpoint, but for a gay or bisexual man in those times things were suddenly becoming liberated. The gay clubs were a way of gaining acceptance from others similar to yourself.
If promiscuity was no longer seen as a bad thing, marriage was not particularly fashionable and there were clubs that accepted you as a gay person, AND you were a rockstar...and everyone was doing it without judgement....well I just think his behaviour becomes more understandable.
Try to think of a world where AIDS had never been. That was the world he was living in.
You've only got to listen to him in interviews to get a sense of a good person, a caring person.
It's been suggested that Freddie's behaviour changed in 1985. Some people think it's because he knew he was sick. My guess is he was worried, but at that time EVERYONE was worried by the government campaign to raise awareness. It was a talking point, but not before. My friends and I were terrified of it. For a time teenagers were scared even to kiss each other.
People criticise Freddie for being promiscuous when AIDS was about....if you look at the timeline, he was reported to be promiscuous before anyone was aware of it. He changed his behaviour at the same time as most people did. Sadly for him, due to travelling, etc, it was already too late.
You know that's why I think the gay community showed so much dignity at that time....and think what a tragic and dreadful time in history that was....but they all pulled together, you didn't hear any blaming of each other. Even in Freddie's circles you haven't really heard blaming, just dignity and sadness from those left behind.
The virus is to blame.
Well ...The disease was named AIDS in 1983 before it was often called "gay cancer" wich is not far feched because a lot of Aids patients were gay and developed cancer.
But to the point we will never find out who infectet him. FACT ! And it wouldn`t change anything.
Freddie himself knew that he is hiv positive in 1984. (sources Mary Austin( he knew it for about seven years) and David Wigg (he knew it since 1984). But of couse he didn`t speak to anyone at that point it was unknown how the virus was transmitet and there was no medical (pharmacy) option in the early 80`s. But again who had given HIV to him - we will never find out - and I don`t really care who it was.
But to the point we will never find out who infectet him. FACT ! And it wouldn`t change anything.
Freddie himself knew that he is hiv positive in 1984. (sources Mary Austin( he knew it for about seven years) and David Wigg (he knew it since 1984). But of couse he didn`t speak to anyone at that point it was unknown how the virus was transmitet and there was no medical (pharmacy) option in the early 80`s. But again who had given HIV to him - we will never find out - and I don`t really care who it was.
I totally agree, whoever gave it to him wouldn't have known what they were doing anyway. and it's true it's not going to change anything now.
As I remember there was no test for HIV until about mid 1985. So not sure why it was reported that Freddie knew in 1984. There was very little publicity until then either because there was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing amongst the scientists globally, seeing if their theories were matching each other, etc.
There might have been a skinny column somewhere near the back of a newspaper about a 'gay' disease, but as I say no one knew what was transmitting it and it all seemed a bit like propaganda.
Maybe these reports that he 'knew' in 1984 were really just memories of his concerns when he heard about this nameless disease and had heard that it was affecting homosexual men, particularly those who lived in or had travelled in the US.
But since there was no test then to find out, all anyone would have done in that situation was wait for more information. If the scientists were not shouting out to curb your sexual behaviour (no one knew if it was sexually transmitted) then how was anyone else to know...
As I remember there was no test for HIV until about mid 1985. So not sure why it was reported that Freddie knew in 1984. There was very little publicity until then either because there was a lot of to-ing and fro-ing amongst the scientists globally, seeing if their theories were matching each other, etc.
There might have been a skinny column somewhere near the back of a newspaper about a 'gay' disease, but as I say no one knew what was transmitting it and it all seemed a bit like propaganda.
Maybe these reports that he 'knew' in 1984 were really just memories of his concerns when he heard about this nameless disease and had heard that it was affecting homosexual men, particularly those who lived in or had travelled in the US.
But since there was no test then to find out, all anyone would have done in that situation was wait for more information. If the scientists were not shouting out to curb your sexual behaviour (no one knew if it was sexually transmitted) then how was anyone else to know...
There was no proper HIV Test in 84 - that`s correct, but Freddie had acess to the best Doctors for sure. So he underwent multiple testings ( maybe he had some problems/ speculations of course) and as a result doctors told him he is possible/ maybe hiv positive. And in 85 with the new test method - he had to realize that the prediction from the 84 testings are correct. This results in leaving Munich head over heel and change his life.
Oh and I totally agree...there's NO WAY he would've known he was infecting people; it seems like in NY during the early 1980s, everyone was infecting everyone without knowing it, and people still are, even though 32/33 years later, there is no excuse....I don't even think AIDS really registered with him until after Rock Hudson died and by that point (I'm estimating) Freddie had already been carrying the uninvited guest for 4/5 years! And right after he was found to be infected, he started using protection with Jim Hutton. I've also read Greg Louganis' book, and he was very likely infected at about the same time as Freddie (and he's still alive!) It wasn't until after Rock Hudson died that he started caring about AIDS, but HIV doesn't care about that. All HIV cares about is eating white blood cells.
2nd December 1977 in New York
Not all that crap again.
Freddie had HIV before he came to the UK in the early sixties.
Gettin' tired of these HIV topics.
Freddie got HIV when he opened his asshole to John Murphy or Tony Bastin. For god's sake stop this crap.
Freddie got HIV when he opened his asshole to John Murphy or Tony Bastin. For god's sake stop this crap.