Innuendo is the only album where i would give every song perfext 10/10 points!
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Sebastian,
In your personal opinion... what were the writing strengths and weaknesses of each member in terms of songwriting.
Of course any of us that understand music theory are fully aware that Freddie's understanding (whether by knowledge of theory or by a great musical ear, or both) of more complex chord progressions..etc..etc.. exceed the other 3, but of course, more complex doesn't always mean better.
But please go as far in depth as time allows you to
Thank you very much.
Yes, I would also like to see Sebastian's opinions on this: strengths and weaknesses of all four band members in songwriting.
Strengths and weaknesses, briefly:
Of course the four of them were extraordinary songwriters. Queen were probably the only band for which all members wrote (separately) at least two #1 hits. Maurice Gibb'd never got sole credit for a #1, although I'm not sure about Ringo: the legend states that Don't Pass Me By was #1 in Poland, but that's most likely an urban legend without any serious support.
Freddie's biggest strengths were of course the clever use of non-repetitive (and at the same time catchy) melodies, unpredictable structures and extended harmonic and rhythmic material (albeit there are of course several composers more advanced). His only (debatable) weakness would probably be that he sometimes repeated himself a lot, as in some melodic bits or some chord progressions.
Brian was a very meticulous arranger, and what I admire the most about his songwriting is that he's so bloody brilliant emulating styles. If you listen to a song like '39, it's hard to believe he wasn't an experienced and consumated skiffle composer. Or if you listen to Good Company, Teo Torriatte, Dragon Attack or Scandal. Very versatile songwriter. He even imitated Freddie's style perfectly with 'No One But You'.
John's song catalogue doesn't even get to a score, sadly, so it's hard to know as deep about his style as it happens with the others, each of which has composed over 50 released songs.
Roger was more creative when he wrote at the piano, while at the guitar he was sometimes quite predictable. Not always of course. I think he'd got a great sense of melody and was a wonderful lyricist. If he had wanted to, imo, he could have been one of the best English poets of the century, but that way we'd have missed his voice and his instruments :)
All in all, they were all quite different and especially in the Miracle-Innuendo era they were already mature and independent songwriters, which made it easier for me to find specific trademarks and try to conclude who-composed-what.
Of course the four of them were extraordinary songwriters. Queen were probably the only band for which all members wrote (separately) at least two #1 hits. Maurice Gibb'd never got sole credit for a #1, although I'm not sure about Ringo: the legend states that Don't Pass Me By was #1 in Poland, but that's most likely an urban legend without any serious support.
Freddie's biggest strengths were of course the clever use of non-repetitive (and at the same time catchy) melodies, unpredictable structures and extended harmonic and rhythmic material (albeit there are of course several composers more advanced). His only (debatable) weakness would probably be that he sometimes repeated himself a lot, as in some melodic bits or some chord progressions.
Brian was a very meticulous arranger, and what I admire the most about his songwriting is that he's so bloody brilliant emulating styles. If you listen to a song like '39, it's hard to believe he wasn't an experienced and consumated skiffle composer. Or if you listen to Good Company, Teo Torriatte, Dragon Attack or Scandal. Very versatile songwriter. He even imitated Freddie's style perfectly with 'No One But You'.
John's song catalogue doesn't even get to a score, sadly, so it's hard to know as deep about his style as it happens with the others, each of which has composed over 50 released songs.
Roger was more creative when he wrote at the piano, while at the guitar he was sometimes quite predictable. Not always of course. I think he'd got a great sense of melody and was a wonderful lyricist. If he had wanted to, imo, he could have been one of the best English poets of the century, but that way we'd have missed his voice and his instruments :)
All in all, they were all quite different and especially in the Miracle-Innuendo era they were already mature and independent songwriters, which made it easier for me to find specific trademarks and try to conclude who-composed-what.
Thanks Sebastian. I found really funny that you only found one weakenes in one band member(Freddie) and that it was debatable.:)
I don't know why, but I don't seem to enjoy too much the folky side of Brian's so versatile and wonderful songwriting skills. For example: Long away, some day one day, etc. Find it repetitive and boring( it's just my opinion)...can this be due in part to less harmonic changes and less melodic interest or less elaborate arrangements ? What do you think?
I don't know why, but I don't seem to enjoy too much the folky side of Brian's so versatile and wonderful songwriting skills. For example: Long away, some day one day, etc. Find it repetitive and boring( it's just my opinion)...can this be due in part to less harmonic changes and less melodic interest or less elaborate arrangements ? What do you think?
I don't think 'Long Away' and the others would be more interesting with more chords. There are many songs catchy enough with even a simpler harmony. Perhaps Brian's weakness in some of those ('She Makes Me', for instance), is the fact that the melody is quite plain (and sometimes chord-driven). Not a problem with chords or arrangement imo.
I'm sure I recall Greg Brooks saying that there is a version of Innuendo with Rog on vocal (maybe a guide vocal for Fred) also wasn't Fred writting songs like:
Delilah
Delilah Delilah
Oh my oh my oh my you're irresistible
You make me smile when I'm just about to cry
You bring me hope you make me laugh - and I like it
You get away with murder so innocent
But when you throw a moody you're all claws and you bite
That's all right
Delilah Delilah
Oh my oh my oh my you're unpredictable
You make me so very happy
When you cuddle up and go to sleep beside me
And then you make me slightly mad
When you pee all over my Chippendale suite
Delilah Delilah
Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
You take over my house and home
You even try to answer my telephone
Delilah you're the apple of my eye
Meeow meeow meeow
Delilah I love you Delilah
Oh you make me so very happy
You give me kisses and I go out of my mind ooh
Meeow meeow meeow
You're irresistible - I love you Delilah
Delilah I love you
Hah hah
You make me very happy
Oh yeah - I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your your your kisses
I love your kisses
possibly queen worst moment (with Fred) sorry Fred!!!
Delilah
Delilah Delilah
Oh my oh my oh my you're irresistible
You make me smile when I'm just about to cry
You bring me hope you make me laugh - and I like it
You get away with murder so innocent
But when you throw a moody you're all claws and you bite
That's all right
Delilah Delilah
Oh my oh my oh my you're unpredictable
You make me so very happy
When you cuddle up and go to sleep beside me
And then you make me slightly mad
When you pee all over my Chippendale suite
Delilah Delilah
Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
You take over my house and home
You even try to answer my telephone
Delilah you're the apple of my eye
Meeow meeow meeow
Delilah I love you Delilah
Oh you make me so very happy
You give me kisses and I go out of my mind ooh
Meeow meeow meeow
You're irresistible - I love you Delilah
Delilah I love you
Hah hah
You make me very happy
Oh yeah - I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your your your kisses
I love your kisses
possibly queen worst moment (with Fred) sorry Fred!!!
I don't think 'Long Away' and the others would be more interesting with more chords. There are many songs catchy enough with even a simpler harmony. Perhaps Brian's weakness in some of those ('She Makes Me', for instance), is the fact that the melody is quite plain (and sometimes chord-driven). Not a problem with chords or arrangement imo.
Thanks, I always wondered why was that, necuase I usually like that style of songwriting in other writers, not in Brian, anyways.
Do you think that Fred had in general more melodic genius than Brian?
I find his melodies are almost always pretty long and innovative, quite unpredictable sometimes, and I truly love that.
Was it Montserrat the one who praised Freddie's melodic skills?
I'm sure I recall Greg Brooks saying that there is a version of Innuendo with Rog on vocal (maybe a guide vocal for Fred) also wasn't Fred writting songs like:
Delilah
Delilah Delilah
Oh my oh my oh my you're irresistible
You make me smile when I'm just about to cry
You bring me hope you make me laugh - and I like it
You get away with murder so innocent
But when you throw a moody you're all claws and you bite
That's all right
Delilah Delilah
Oh my oh my oh my you're unpredictable
You make me so very happy
When you cuddle up and go to sleep beside me
And then you make me slightly mad
When you pee all over my Chippendale suite
Delilah Delilah
Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
You take over my house and home
You even try to answer my telephone
Delilah you're the apple of my eye
Meeow meeow meeow
Delilah I love you Delilah
Oh you make me so very happy
You give me kisses and I go out of my mind ooh
Meeow meeow meeow
You're irresistible - I love you Delilah
Delilah I love you
Hah hah
You make me very happy
Oh yeah - I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your your your kisses
I love your kisses
possibly queen worst moment (with Fred) sorry Fred!!!
Is it maybe that your profile page says that Roger is your favorite member, and therefore you overlook facts to root for the Queen member you want to be the songs writer??
Facts:
* Innuendo is out of Roger's league musically.
* Roger's 2 biggest hits of the 1980's would not have became what they were without Freddie taking them over...to the point of where Brian and John both felt Freddie should have taken co-writing credit on Radio Ga Ga and A Kind of Magic.
* Freddie was also writing songs like Innuendo, I'm Going Slightly MAd, All Gods People, Hitman, and being that Freddie wrote more of Queen's hits and songs then any of the others, I think it would be dumb to think that he didn't contribute lyrically and musically to the other songs on Innuendo.
Lets just presume on the Innuendo that Freddie just wrote and contributed to the songs we know...thats Innuendo, I'm Going Slightly Mad, All Gods People, Hitman, Delilah, and Bijou (yep, Bijou is Freddie's)......so while just months away from dying from AIDS, Freddie wrote 6 of the 12 Innuendo tracks... and no doubt contributed to others.
You tell me who Queen's chief songwriter was?
anyone who knows the history of queen knows who the cheif songwriter of queen was. It's been proven over the last 15 years since freddies death. I believe from 1988 to 1991 was possibly freddies best period, outside of the first five albums. check this out all you non believers! freddie in his last the years: Innuendo, slightly mad, don't try so hard, all gods people, delilah, hitman, bijou, a winter's tale, mother love, barcelona (whole album) was it all worth it, the miracle. Need I say more!
I think you're trying to discuss about the sex of angels..
Just listening to Queen members' solo albums you'll realise that they're all excellent songwriters, but, in the meanwhile, you'll recognize that Queen songs have got a specific identity that comes out from the 'inter-action' of all the bandmembers. (Only exception, perhaps, Brian's Back to the Light, which sometimes really seems to me like a kind of Queen album, only without Freddie on vocals!)
This said... I do really think that the idea of crediting Queen songs - since the Miracle - only to Queen, reflected also a change in their songwriting. In my opinion, in facts, many songs especially from Innuendo, are a result of a co-writing, and co-arrangement of the 4 members.
Innuendo, more specifically, is a complex intersection of different elements... I would not be surprised to learn that it's a team work.
Just listening to Queen members' solo albums you'll realise that they're all excellent songwriters, but, in the meanwhile, you'll recognize that Queen songs have got a specific identity that comes out from the 'inter-action' of all the bandmembers. (Only exception, perhaps, Brian's Back to the Light, which sometimes really seems to me like a kind of Queen album, only without Freddie on vocals!)
This said... I do really think that the idea of crediting Queen songs - since the Miracle - only to Queen, reflected also a change in their songwriting. In my opinion, in facts, many songs especially from Innuendo, are a result of a co-writing, and co-arrangement of the 4 members.
Innuendo, more specifically, is a complex intersection of different elements... I would not be surprised to learn that it's a team work.
ps. the Poison song is not 'ride the wild wing', but 'ride the wind', from 'Flesh & Blood', 1990.
Typical american glam-rock song, nice to listen when you're at the seaside ;-)
Typical american glam-rock song, nice to listen when you're at the seaside ;-)
> I always wondered why was that, necuase I usually like that style of songwriting in other writers, not in Brian, anyways.
Brian had imo some very good moments and some rather poor bits as well. I absolutely love his solo career (more than Queen) but why a shitty track like 'I'm Scared' got a spot in such a brilliant album is beyond me.
> Do you think that Fred had in general more melodic genius than Brian?
No. But Freddie'd got a more effective quality control approach, which allowed him to be averagely more catchy (charts show how most of the hits were his) and much less repetitive in spite of the fact he wrote more songs.
> I find his melodies are almost always pretty long and innovative, quite unpredictable sometimes, and I truly love that.
That's right. No wonder why he said he focused on that first, and then the structure (another very clever aspect of his compositions).
> Was it Montserrat the one who praised Freddie's melodic skills?
Yes, and many others. I remember Roger saying he was the one with the idea of releasing 'Bo Rhap' as a single because when he heard it he thought the melody was beautiful.
> I'm sure I recall Greg Brooks saying that there is a version of Innuendo with Rog on vocal (maybe a guide vocal for Fred)
Greg has made terrible mistakes in the past (read his book and you'll find scores of them). Even if there's a demo version sung by Roger it's not neccesarily a guide vocal. We don't know how long is that alleged take and what does it say. It can be Roger trying out the words he penned on the melody Freddie wrote.
> also wasn't Fred writting songs like Delilah
What you posted are the lyrics. And indeed 'Innuendo' is chiefly Roger's (lyrically). But judging Fred's 100+ tracks just because of 'Delilah' is just as absurd as thinking all Brian's songs have lyrics like 'Sweet Lady' or all Roger's songs are similar to 'Interlude In Constantinople', in such case there's no way he could have written 'Days Of Our Lives' ;)
> Lets just presume on the Innuendo that Freddie just wrote and contributed to the songs we know...thats Innuendo, I'm Going Slightly Mad, All Gods People, Hitman, Delilah, and Bijou
And Don't Try So Hard.
> freddie in his last the years: Innuendo, slightly mad, don't try so hard, all gods people, delilah, hitman, bijou, a winter's tale, mother love, barcelona (whole album) was it all worth it, the miracle. Need I say more!
Mother Love's music is Brian's, and the entire Barcelona album co-credits Mike Moran, although Montserrat's comments imply somehow that Freddie did write the songs (i.e. chords, lyrics, melody), so probably what Mike did was scoring the orchestral parts (with Freddie) and the two of them decided the structure. Hard to tell...
> Just listening to Queen members' solo albums you'll realise that they're all excellent songwriters, but, in the meanwhile, you'll recognize that Queen songs have got a specific identity that comes out from the 'inter-action' of all the bandmembers.
Not really. It's unfair to draw such conclusions considering that both Freddie's solo efforts were deliberately made parallel to Queen, and they intended to be very different to the band's sound. Same for Roger's. Brian's solo albums were obviously trying to keep the Queen sound, but if Roger, Freddie or John had wanted to make solo records sounding like Queen they could have.
> I do really think that the idea of crediting Queen songs - since the Miracle - only to Queen, reflected also a change in their songwriting.
Lyrically, yes. But as you can see all of the songs did have one main songwriter for the chords. The fact that they all four were in the credits solved the royalty thing and (probably) avoided a lot of fights, but still they composed separately.
> In my opinion, in facts, many songs especially from Innuendo, are a result of a co-writing, and co-arrangement of the 4 members.
John barely contribut
Brian had imo some very good moments and some rather poor bits as well. I absolutely love his solo career (more than Queen) but why a shitty track like 'I'm Scared' got a spot in such a brilliant album is beyond me.
> Do you think that Fred had in general more melodic genius than Brian?
No. But Freddie'd got a more effective quality control approach, which allowed him to be averagely more catchy (charts show how most of the hits were his) and much less repetitive in spite of the fact he wrote more songs.
> I find his melodies are almost always pretty long and innovative, quite unpredictable sometimes, and I truly love that.
That's right. No wonder why he said he focused on that first, and then the structure (another very clever aspect of his compositions).
> Was it Montserrat the one who praised Freddie's melodic skills?
Yes, and many others. I remember Roger saying he was the one with the idea of releasing 'Bo Rhap' as a single because when he heard it he thought the melody was beautiful.
> I'm sure I recall Greg Brooks saying that there is a version of Innuendo with Rog on vocal (maybe a guide vocal for Fred)
Greg has made terrible mistakes in the past (read his book and you'll find scores of them). Even if there's a demo version sung by Roger it's not neccesarily a guide vocal. We don't know how long is that alleged take and what does it say. It can be Roger trying out the words he penned on the melody Freddie wrote.
> also wasn't Fred writting songs like Delilah
What you posted are the lyrics. And indeed 'Innuendo' is chiefly Roger's (lyrically). But judging Fred's 100+ tracks just because of 'Delilah' is just as absurd as thinking all Brian's songs have lyrics like 'Sweet Lady' or all Roger's songs are similar to 'Interlude In Constantinople', in such case there's no way he could have written 'Days Of Our Lives' ;)
> Lets just presume on the Innuendo that Freddie just wrote and contributed to the songs we know...thats Innuendo, I'm Going Slightly Mad, All Gods People, Hitman, Delilah, and Bijou
And Don't Try So Hard.
> freddie in his last the years: Innuendo, slightly mad, don't try so hard, all gods people, delilah, hitman, bijou, a winter's tale, mother love, barcelona (whole album) was it all worth it, the miracle. Need I say more!
Mother Love's music is Brian's, and the entire Barcelona album co-credits Mike Moran, although Montserrat's comments imply somehow that Freddie did write the songs (i.e. chords, lyrics, melody), so probably what Mike did was scoring the orchestral parts (with Freddie) and the two of them decided the structure. Hard to tell...
> Just listening to Queen members' solo albums you'll realise that they're all excellent songwriters, but, in the meanwhile, you'll recognize that Queen songs have got a specific identity that comes out from the 'inter-action' of all the bandmembers.
Not really. It's unfair to draw such conclusions considering that both Freddie's solo efforts were deliberately made parallel to Queen, and they intended to be very different to the band's sound. Same for Roger's. Brian's solo albums were obviously trying to keep the Queen sound, but if Roger, Freddie or John had wanted to make solo records sounding like Queen they could have.
> I do really think that the idea of crediting Queen songs - since the Miracle - only to Queen, reflected also a change in their songwriting.
Lyrically, yes. But as you can see all of the songs did have one main songwriter for the chords. The fact that they all four were in the credits solved the royalty thing and (probably) avoided a lot of fights, but still they composed separately.
> In my opinion, in facts, many songs especially from Innuendo, are a result of a co-writing, and co-arrangement of the 4 members.
John barely contribut
Sebastian, what about "Rock In Rio Blues"? Although that's an improvisation, but is it more in Freddie's style, Brian's, Roger's, John's?
I don't quite remember, but doesn't it use cliché chord progressions? if so, then actually nobody composed the chords, and most likely each one improvised his own parts.
I'm sure I recall Greg Brooks saying that there is a version of Innuendo with Rog on vocal (maybe a guide vocal for Fred) also wasn't Fred writting songs like:
Delilah
Delilah Delilah
Oh my oh my oh my you're irresistible
You make me smile when I'm just about to cry
You bring me hope you make me laugh - and I like it
You get away with murder so innocent
But when you throw a moody you're all claws and you bite
That's all right
Delilah Delilah
Oh my oh my oh my you're unpredictable
You make me so very happy
When you cuddle up and go to sleep beside me
And then you make me slightly mad
When you pee all over my Chippendale suite
Delilah Delilah
Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh
You take over my house and home
You even try to answer my telephone
Delilah you're the apple of my eye
Meeow meeow meeow
Delilah I love you Delilah
Oh you make me so very happy
You give me kisses and I go out of my mind ooh
Meeow meeow meeow
You're irresistible - I love you Delilah
Delilah I love you
Hah hah
You make me very happy
Oh yeah - I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your kisses
I love your your your kisses
I love your kisses
possibly queen worst moment (with Fred) sorry Fred!!!
Is it maybe that your profile page says that Roger is your favorite member, and therefore you overlook facts to root for the Queen member you want to be the songs writer??
Facts:
* Innuendo is out of Roger's league musically.
* Roger's 2 biggest hits of the 1980's would not have became what they were without Freddie taking them over...to the point of where Brian and John both felt Freddie should have taken co-writing credit on Radio Ga Ga and A Kind of Magic.
* Freddie was also writing songs like Innuendo, I'm Going Slightly MAd, All Gods People, Hitman, and being that Freddie wrote more of Queen's hits and songs then any of the others, I think it would be dumb to think that he didn't contribute lyrically and musically to the other songs on Innuendo.
Lets just presume on the Innuendo that Freddie just wrote and contributed to the songs we know...thats Innuendo, I'm Going Slightly Mad, All Gods People, Hitman, Delilah, and Bijou (yep, Bijou is Freddie's)......so while just months away from dying from AIDS, Freddie wrote 6 of the 12 Innuendo tracks... and no doubt contributed to others.
You tell me who Queen's chief songwriter was?
u dont seem like a Queen fan ur a Freddie fan , do u have anything positive to say about any of the other members?? Queen was a success becuz of all 4 members , they were who they were cuz of all 4 them together , Freddie wasnt as big on his own so that should tell u that he needed the others as well as they needed him.Roger is an intelligent man and musician so y think he couldnt have come up wit a great song like Innuendo , even IF Freddie wrote most of it.He contributed somewhere so in a way it was Rogers song too.