Jansen, cool it down.
I know you felt offended but don't take it to hard by just throwing insults. I also disagree and I have to say that nowhere in the Bible there's a straight interpretation that condemns homosexuality as a sin. There's a couple of passages (most specifically about 'Sodom and Gomorrah'), but I think it rather condemns rape adultery as a sin. One thing that I have no doubt about is that promiscuity and any kind of sex without love is a sin, and that goes for both gay and straight people.
Here's a very good link about the issue:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm
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I forgot to mention another way you interpret normal, harmless things into a way of accepting gay society: food. I remember way back when I was a kid how there used to be 7 lucky charms (in the cereal). Makes sense, with seven being the notoriously famous lucky number. Anyhow, when I was a kid they added an 8th one, the rainbow. So beware ultra-conservative parents! Don't feed your kids evil food!
Whoa jasen...apparently you're too blind to read the rest of my post. Everyone sins, dude. Every last one of us.
If you ask me, you're a fucking hypocrite. Because you're gonna get pissed at me for what you would call "shoving" my beliefs down your throat. But you want to shove yours as hard as it will go. What the hell is your problem? I have a lot of respect and love for gay people...I tried to explain that. But it doesn't seem like you have very much respect for me at all.
So in the words of Freddie Mercury (whom I idolize, by the way), "If you don't get it, then fuck you, darling."
If you ask me, you're a fucking hypocrite. Because you're gonna get pissed at me for what you would call "shoving" my beliefs down your throat. But you want to shove yours as hard as it will go. What the hell is your problem? I have a lot of respect and love for gay people...I tried to explain that. But it doesn't seem like you have very much respect for me at all.
So in the words of Freddie Mercury (whom I idolize, by the way), "If you don't get it, then fuck you, darling."
U r cool Mr.Jingles!!
To Jasen & Superfrodo - hey guys chill out! Don't you see that by you guys getting angry at each other that you are validating these "ultra conservatives" (I am loathe to call them true Christians)? At the end of the day - WHO CARES what their opinions are??? If you are a decent person and try to do the right thing throughout your life then I think that is all God wants us to do.
And may I say, and probably will attract criticism here but I don't really give a rats, the Bible is basically just a certain group of people's interpretation of God's rules and history. One must remember that the people of that age were quite superstitious and ritualistic. The Old Testament was their way of explaining certain events in the way they comprehended at the time. Take for instance, the common everyday household item, the lightbulb. Now to us, its just that. Take it back in time to Old Testament society and it would have been beyond their comprehension - and most things were then put into two baskets - a miracle from God or the work of the devil. SO, the point I'm trying to make is maybe we shouldn't be looking so much as to how to apply the majority of the Old Testament to our lives as we live in a different time. If one is looking for answers then maybe they should look at the New Testament and the simple messages of Christ's teachings which are still relavent today.
And may I say, and probably will attract criticism here but I don't really give a rats, the Bible is basically just a certain group of people's interpretation of God's rules and history. One must remember that the people of that age were quite superstitious and ritualistic. The Old Testament was their way of explaining certain events in the way they comprehended at the time. Take for instance, the common everyday household item, the lightbulb. Now to us, its just that. Take it back in time to Old Testament society and it would have been beyond their comprehension - and most things were then put into two baskets - a miracle from God or the work of the devil. SO, the point I'm trying to make is maybe we shouldn't be looking so much as to how to apply the majority of the Old Testament to our lives as we live in a different time. If one is looking for answers then maybe they should look at the New Testament and the simple messages of Christ's teachings which are still relavent today.
You know guys...i'm actually a nice person....i'm just gay...I was born that way...and i don't want to be looked at as a "sinner" or "dammed"! Why?
The reason why I get so upset is because people say they dont hate gays but they still feel homosexuality is wrong and a sin! That is a complete contradiction in my mind...and is very insulting. Like saying I "have nothing against jews but they are damned because they deny Jesus"...
How the hell can a "sexuality" be wrong??...i mean it's the way you're made....either straight or gay...I'm tired of being judged...I'm tired of people telling me I'm going to hell just because I was born a certain way.
The reason why I get so upset is because people say they dont hate gays but they still feel homosexuality is wrong and a sin! That is a complete contradiction in my mind...and is very insulting. Like saying I "have nothing against jews but they are damned because they deny Jesus"...
How the hell can a "sexuality" be wrong??...i mean it's the way you're made....either straight or gay...I'm tired of being judged...I'm tired of people telling me I'm going to hell just because I was born a certain way.
PS. I agree with you 100% mr jingles
I, personally, have never sinned. *worships false idol*
I too agree with jasen. Good point. I guess the Bible is a one way ticket to Heaven while ignoring the personality of a gay person.
That didn't really make sense when I thought of it.
I too agree with jasen. Good point. I guess the Bible is a one way ticket to Heaven while ignoring the personality of a gay person.
That didn't really make sense when I thought of it.
Wouldn't life be a lot easier without the bible? Personally I'm not religious. I respect everyone who respects me and I don't care about their religion, their colour, nationality or sexual preferance. I support the Dutch law of allowing gay marriages and abortion. I mean, everbody has the right to live their life the way they want to, don't they?
Wouldn't life be a lot easier without the bible? Personally I'm not religious. I respect everyone who respects me and I don't care about their religion, their colour, nationality or sexual preferance. I support the Dutch law of allowing gay marriages and abortion. I mean, everbody has the right to live their life the way they want to, don't they?
The Bible is just history+guidlines to help. Everyone can still live how they want cos they have free will. :-)
And may I say, and probably will attract criticism here but I don't really give a rats, the Bible is basically just a certain group of people's interpretation of God's rules and history. One must remember that the people of that age were quite superstitious and ritualistic. The Old Testament was their way of explaining certain events in the way they comprehended at the time. So, the point I'm trying to make is maybe we shouldn't be looking so much as to how to apply the majority of the Old Testament to our lives as we live in a different time. If one is looking for answers then maybe they should look at the New Testament and the simple messages of Christ's teachings which are still relavent today.
I so totally agree with you on that one.
I mean, it doesn't make much sense to me that The Bible says that the Hebrews were the people prefered and chosen by God, and then somewhere else it says that God loves everybody equally.
Also why is war, death, and destruction justified during so many passages of The Bible, and then comes Jesus to preach non-violence and to turn the other cheek.
I for once think that I can't rely on many things in the Old Testament, and I think the majority of it was indeed written by people who made up their own interpretations and not because God spoke to them. The New Testament makes a lot more sense to me, and it's perhaps why I consider myself a christian.
Also going back to the topic of homosexuality as a sin. I seriously doubt it is and I can't see why could it possible be a sin. For my part I have nothing but respect for gay people who have decent love relationships in a serious form of commitment, just like any other straight couple.
However, let's say homosexuality is a sin. Who are we to judge people who in any possible way are harming us, or anyone else? I mean, you could judge someone who is doing something bad to you or another person, but in this case it's God's only choice to judge.
However, let's say homosexuality is a sin. Who are we to judge people who in any possible way are harming us, or anyone else? I mean, you could judge someone who is doing something bad to you or another person, but in this case it's God's only choice to judge.
Well said.
The only gospel in which Jesus preaches Tolerance and acceptance (The Gospel Of Thomas) was left out of the Bible. I should say that says enough about fundamentalist views on these isues.
Check chapter 6 of Luke for the "love your enemies" teachings (which my signature is based on).
And you can't attribute the lacking of Thomas in the NT to fundamentalists... fundamentalism is a 20th Century (or perhaps late 19th Century) creation. To a great extent, Constantine was responsible for what was canonized and what was not, and that fourth Century mentality was certainly not really reminiscent of today's fundamentalist thinking (although sometimes I'll beg to differ).
Mary Magline wasn't a prostitue.That's just a rumor.
Oh, how nice it is to know we have a scholar at Queenzone, especially one who can spell the name of the ancient person they have been studying for the last 20 years of their life. Spare us of your uneducated blasphemy, please.
Judy prooved her point in a very good way, and even though I don't particularly share all her views, she did it in such a great way that she makes you listen and think.
Agreed, it was an excellent post overall. But I can't help but reply to this part:
I have always understood tolerance to mean that I do not force my views, opinions, and beliefs on those around me. In my day to day life, I rarely bring up my convictions, especially verbally. Unless I am asked, it is very out of character for me to state my convictions and beliefs in casual conversation. I have learned, over the years, to avoid bringing up my Christianity because invariably, I am attacked.
That's the problem these days... far too many people aren't willing to speak openly about their political and/or religious beliefs, so they become accustomed to having little to no intelligent discussion on the subjects. Furthermore, if you notice that most people will attack you because of your faith convictions, shouldn't that tell you where the minds of people are heading in the 21st century? It's slowly moving away from the theistic style faith that was once comfortable, because with the help of science and thinking for oneself, more and more people are realizing that the old faith just isn't working anymore. To many people, traditional Christianity is starting to become a thought of the past, and the Bible is slowly starting to be seen a document of a time in history, not an eternal truth for all times.
Christianity is slowly dying, except for in fundamentalism, which is in my eyes, that one last gasp (a huge last gasp, mind you!). In two or three generations, I forsee the protestant church (which consists mostly of people over the age of 60 - censuses can't lie) being dead - unless of course, there is a major reformation. Anyone interested in such an idea should read any material by Bishop John Shelby Spong. While you may not agree with everything he says, he is a brilliant man. Here are three of his books I've read:
Why Christianity Must Change Or Die
A New Christianity For A New World
Liberating The Gospels (this one I recommend the most, as he presents much biblical evidence as to how NT writers used OT stories as platforms for their stories, rather than being historical events)
Any ambitious (and mentally/emotionally ready) readers should check out anything written by Don Cupitt whom, in my eyes, is one of our time's greatest thinkers. A true genius of 21st Century philosophy, and where we should be going.
You wanna hear something ultra-conservative? Well, there's this lady at my church whom I absolutely CANNOT stand. She's a total fundamentalist - I swear, the woman has two kids but she still acts like the freaking Virgin Mary. She only lets her kids listen to contemporary Christian music - no other music of any kind (except maybe classical). So one day I was over at the church helping set up for some fundraiser or something, and I was bored so I went over to the house and got a Queen CD to play while we were setting up. And the lady totally FLEW off the handle at me and told me that they weren't listening to my devil music. My dad's the pastor, and he bought the CD for me for Christ's sake. That bitch!
I can relate to that! I'm a guitar teacher, and one of my ten-year-old students is in that exact lifestyle. He had never heard of The Beatles until I mentioned them, and so I gave him a Rubber Soul cd to listen to. His father told me to consult him in the future when giving his son music to listen to, because they are "heavily involved with the church and all that". I told him that I run a seccular classroom, and if I feel one of my students should hear a certain piece of music to help on his/her musical journey, then it is at my discretion what music it is. If you don't like it, then I suggest you find a Christian guitar instructor". I'm still teaching this kid, and I'll be seeing him tonight.