Do you support President Bush?

S

Saint Jiub 04 August 2005 15:48 · Member since July 2001

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:

There is no talking with you. You are pathetic. You suck. You and people like you are the reason why there is intolerance, lack of open dialogue, and war in this world.

Cute and ironic statement, sir.

T

The Real Wizard 04 August 2005 16:14 · Member since August 2002

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:
There is no talking with you. You are pathetic. You suck. You and people like you are the reason why there is intolerance, lack of open dialogue, and war in this world.

Cute and ironic statement, sir.

Ironic how? I initiated the dialogue, and she chose to ignore all positive elements of it and turn the tables completely. This is not a case of the paradox of being intolerant of someone else's intolerance. I could not even enter dialogue with her to get to that point, because she refused to speak about the subject at hand. It is a very typical and almost clever way for someone to avoid discussing something where they know they cannot offer a valid and related comment.

M

Mr.Jingles 04 August 2005 16:15 · Member since January 2002

FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:
Guy wrote:
If every country in the world had to listen to what every other country in the world had to say, we wouldn't get anywhere.

100% disagree. If every country listened to every other country, then we would at least have a world where everyone understood the worldview of everyone else. Everyone would build tolerance and understanding of differences. There would be much less war, because we wouldn't attack people for "being different" than us. And there certainly wouldn't be bigotry in the masses towards other countries, because our politicians would be the ones telling us to be accepting of others, even though we don't agree with or understand the culture, mentality, and history of some countries and their people.

So... let's see... during World War II everyone should have just stood around "understanding the worldview" of Hitler?

That would have REALLY helped.

What you don't seem to understand is that the reason why Bush invaded Iraq wasn't "liberating Iraq" as you and the rest of the conservatives put it. It was all about the WMDs and the Al-Qaeda links, neither of one existed in the first place. So after finding NOTHING in Iraq, the Bush administration had no other choice but to pull out the "freedom" flag and make the United States the "heros who liberated Iraq". What makes me sick of the stomach about right and left wing extremists is that they claim to be "freedom fighters" when all they do is opress people to the extreme. Can't tell which one is worse. Both are the scum of humanity.

Oh, and btw mind me if I ask once again what is Halliburton doing in Iraq?

S

Saint Jiub 04 August 2005 17:21 · Member since July 2001

Sir - Please tell me how your personal attacks help foster "open dialogue" (as you so eloquently put it).

Why did you not respond to FGT's Hitler comparison?

Why is ok to depose barbaric European dictators, but not ok to depose 3rd world barbaric dictators?

Who is doing the vast majority of killing in Iraq and Afghanistan NOW? AlQaeda, Bathists and the Taliban - All brutal thugs. But yet, the terrorist's actions are 100% Bush's fault.

G

Guy 04 August 2005 17:35 · Member since July 2003

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:
Guy wrote:
If every country in the world had to listen to what every other country in the world had to say, we wouldn't get anywhere.

100% disagree. If every country listened to every other country, then we would at least have a world where everyone understood the worldview of everyone else. Everyone would build tolerance and understanding of differences. There would be much less war, because we wouldn't attack people for "being different" than us. And there certainly wouldn't be bigotry in the masses towards other countries, because our politicians would be the ones telling us to be accepting of others, even though we don't agree with or understand the culture, mentality, and history of some countries and their people.

We have different points of view, obviously. As much as I'd like to have world peace, it's just not going to happen. One word springs to mind... Utopy.

Besides, what is a country supposed to do when 2 countries suggest opposite things? Take Iran and the States for example. Their views regarding Muslim terror are clearly not the same... Right?

People misinterpret religion and do deadly things. I bet anyone other than Bob is wondering what the hell I'm talking about. Well, it always comes down to religion. As somebody previously said, religion doesn't fuck people up, people fuck religion up. Almost every single conflict in the world is somehow related to religion... Why? I honestly don't know, but it's been that way for centuries, and it's very likely not to change any time soon.

A very recent example?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/608864.html

G

geeksandgeeks 04 August 2005 20:16 · Member since October 2002

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:
FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:
So... let's see... during World War II everyone should have just stood around "understanding the worldview" of Hitler?

That would have REALLY helped.

Typical fucking conservative. Ignoring ALL possible positives of someone's comment, and picking out the one possible exception that is entirely negative, hoping to make them feel like their suggestion is pointless in all cases.

There is no talking with you. You are pathetic. You suck. You and people like you are the reason why there is intolerance, lack of open dialogue, and war in this world.

Actually, I think the reason for that is either that we continue to allow men (who, let's face it, have a much bigger fascination with guns, weapons, power, and beating each other up than women, even from birth) to rule most of the world, or that NO ONE will listen to anyone else. He was trying to make a point. She was trying to make a point. Whenever someone makes a valid point on here, everyone starts spitting at them.

Sir GH, I'm not entirely sure why you reacted so violently to that - in a debate, which is what some of us are trying to have, the POINT is to shoot holes in what the other person says, not to have as loud projectile-vomiting contest where we trade "you suck"s.

I think I know the answer to this question, but is there any possibility at all that we could try and talk about this reasonably, with a little less spewing of venom? God, we have more reasonable discussions than this on the IMDb horror movie fan boards, and half of the folks on there are under thirteen.

That said - I can't stand Bush, and I think the war in Iraq, regardless of his motive, was depraved and wrong. I thought the same thing about Clinton's various bombing campaigns in Iraq and Kosovo, because I believe that all war and violence is wrong. So don't go saying I'm a conservative or an apologist for the conservatives, because then my only recourse will be to laugh my ass off.

T

The Real Wizard 05 August 2005 02:23 · Member since August 2002

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
Sir - Please tell me how your personal attacks help foster "open dialogue" (as you so eloquently put it).

I was expressing frustration at the fact that I was not able to enter the dialogue in the first place, because she changed the subject as she did. If she was not willing to enter the dialogue at all, then how could I be at fault for merely reacting to that? I stand by the things I said. You can't possibly think that people who try their best to understand the worldviews of those different than them are the perpetrators of major conflicts, can you? If you're in your right mind, then the answer should be no. People who do not work like that are political dictators who kill people needlessly, religious fanatics who judge people endlessly, and any others who think it is their worldview that should be the optimal one for everyone.

Why did you not respond to FGT's Hitler comparison?

You're asking me why I didn't respond to her question, yet you're not asking her why she failed to respond to what I initially said. Nice show of equality there. Nonetheless, I'll do my part and answer.

Of course Hitler is a grave exception to the idea I've suggested, but I was just speaking of an ideal. Of course my suggestion isn't entirely practical, because there are far too many countries led by either dictators or religion that wouldn't allow such open dialogue and understanding to happen. But that doesn't mean it can't be possible on a smaller scale with those who are willing to give it a try. In fact, most of those who are able to do it are doing it. Not on the list: United States Of America.

Guy wrote:
We have different points of view, obviously. As much as I'd like to have world peace, it's just not going to happen. One word springs to mind... Utopy.

Utopia is an ideal, not a practical plan. However, we can slowly move in that direction, one person at a time. One person who tries their best to understand another person whose worldview is different than theirs has helped humanity move one small step closer to that ideal Utopia. Tolerance has nothing to do with condoning or agreeing. Far too many people in this world do not understand that simple difference.

T

The Mir@cle 05 August 2005 02:48 · Member since December 2003

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:
FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:
So... let's see... during World War II everyone should have just stood around "understanding the worldview" of Hitler?

That would have REALLY helped.

Typical fucking conservative. Ignoring ALL possible positives of someone's comment, and picking out the one possible exception that is entirely negative, hoping to make them feel like their suggestion is pointless in all cases.

There is no talking with you. You are pathetic. You suck. You and people like you are the reason why there is intolerance, lack of open dialogue, and war in this world.

You're so right Bob... If you don't even try to understand others, you're not gonna bring peace to this world. We have to live with each other instead of destroying each other. And the only possibility to realise that is to respect each other.

The Hitler argument doesn't makes any sense at all...

G

Guy 05 August 2005 03:07 · Member since July 2003

The Mir@cle wrote:

You're so right Bob... If you don't even try to understand others, you're not gonna bring peace to this world. We have to live with each other instead of destroying each other. And the only possibility to realise that is to respect each other.

I respect anyone I meet, until he (or she) proves he's not worthy of my respect. Respect me, and I'll respect you. It doesn't work any other way.

Face it, there are plenty of assholes in this world and we can't be nice to everyone all the time, because these assholes don't deserve our respect.

T

The Mir@cle 05 August 2005 03:21 · Member since December 2003

I have to agree with you this time Guy. I wouldn't mind if Bush is gonna kick the ass of the leaders of Iran... They deserve it. There's no way to respect such people.

But you can't just ignore people because they have a different way of life or different opinions.

G

Guy 05 August 2005 03:59 · Member since July 2003

The Mir@cle wrote:

But you can't just ignore people because they have a different way of life or different opinions.

I never said that... I'm right-wing but I have family members friends who are left-wing. Hell, my girlfriend doesn't give a damn about politics. There are some extreme examples of people I would never be friends with, such as neo-nazis or people who support terror, but that's about it. I don't push anyone away from me merely because they don't think the same as I do - that's stupidity.

T

The Mir@cle 05 August 2005 04:04 · Member since December 2003

I wasn't pointing at you Guy!! I meant it in general.

G

Guy 05 August 2005 07:30 · Member since July 2003

The Mir@cle wrote:
I wasn't pointing at you Guy!! I meant it in general.

Okay then :)

F

FreddiesGhettoTrench 05 August 2005 08:02 · Member since December 2002

Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:
FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:
So... let's see... during World War II everyone should have just stood around "understanding the worldview" of Hitler?

That would have REALLY helped.

Typical fucking conservative. Ignoring ALL possible positives of someone's comment, and picking out the one possible exception that is entirely negative, hoping to make them feel like their suggestion is pointless in all cases.

There is no talking with you. You are pathetic. You suck. You and people like you are the reason why there is intolerance, lack of open dialogue, and war in this world.

Oh, yeah... I'M intolerant.

Yet "typical conservative". "People like you"

Now if you were to put any other group of people - homosexual, African-American, Hispanic, etc. after "typical", that would be obvious prejudice. But it's fine for you to say "typical conservative", and then say I'M intolerant?

Sure.

G

Guy 05 August 2005 08:08 · Member since July 2003

FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:
Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote:
FreddiesGhettoTrench wrote:
So... let's see... during World War II everyone should have just stood around "understanding the worldview" of Hitler?

That would have REALLY helped.

Typical fucking conservative. Ignoring ALL possible positives of someone's comment, and picking out the one possible exception that is entirely negative, hoping to make them feel like their suggestion is pointless in all cases.

There is no talking with you. You are pathetic. You suck. You and people like you are the reason why there is intolerance, lack of open dialogue, and war in this world.

Oh, yeah... I'M intolerant.

Yet "typical conservative". "People like you"

Now if you were to put any other group of people - homosexual, African-American, Hispanic, etc. after "typical", that would be obvious prejudice. But it's fine for you to say "typical conservative", and then say I'M intolerant?

Sure.

Don't take it personally... Bob doesn't like conservatism, it's nothing against you :)

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