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Why Doesn't The U.S. Get It?

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Ok, it seems that it's always fighting around here. So here I go:

Zeni wrote:
This looks like fun.

PainPleasure wrote:

Good one. I'm sorry, but I'm studying history in University. And for your information, if you don't know history, that's your problem, both of you.


I can only hope I have enough training in American history to match wits.

PainPleasure wrote:

Before 1763, France was in possession of at least half of the North American which is the US nowadays. All the states that are near the Mississippi river were French territories.

Zeni wrote:

France was in possession of much of modern-day Canada and the Mississippi valley region. Saying they controlled half is nuts. The eastern seaboard was populated by the English, the Southwest was littered with Spanish missions and forts, and there is no way the French were ever going to conquer the Indians of the Plains. Save for Louisiana, St. Louis, and Canada, it's difficult to argue that France controlled half of the states.

The territories of the 13 colonies were a tiny stip that didn't go beyond the Alleghany mountains, if you know what they are.

The territories of France were extended from the rocky mountains, as the French didn't explore what was beyond until around 1743 when La Vérendrye explored beyond it with is sons. So, French territories went from the Rocky Mountains in the west, thru the Alleghanys in the east, thru The Hudson Bay in the North and the Gulf of Mexico in the South.


PainPleasure wrote:

A frenchman sailed from the great lakes to the golf of Mexico during the 1600s and his name was Cavelier de la Salle. And I could go on and on.

Zeni wrote:

And a Spaniard was the first to reach Kansas almost a century before that. So what?

Yeah, and did he take possession of the territories in the name of Spain?




PainPleasure wrote:

So, don't come here giving me lessons about history, especially the one about New France, which is my speciality!!!

Zeni wrote:

But it does seem that you need to do a little more studying.

Sadly, I think the same can be said of you.

PainPleasure wrote:

And to you know about the Lousiana purchase in 1803. Most Americans are aware about that sale and most of them also are aware that they're was a french presence in N-A before 1763, which is the Treaty of Paris.

Zeni wrote:

The French lost all their land east of the Mississippi River with the Treaty of 1763, while the Spanish lost Florida. Years later, after the United States had been founded, it bought the Louisiana Purchase from Napolean. As I'm sure you are aware, Napolean had designs on establishing a French empire in North America, but lost too many troops to disease in Haiti that he was forced to sell off the land to fund his European wars.


But that's not the issue.

You said earlier that America was settled by Purtians, which is not the case. Yes, New England had a large Puritan population, but that was it. Explain how many of our Founding Fathers (George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, etc) were from the South and did not have a single Puritan bone in their body?

Event if the Puritans didn't settle most of the colonies, they were the most dominant ones, way of thinking, economy, religion, etc, so their philosophy was spreaded everywhere in the US, so this, why religion, even today is so important to the Americans.

Zeni wrote:

And you said that it was an ''error in history'' that gave North America to England. Well, since you are a Francophile, I guess you have the right to call a milita
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scott__mercury wrote:
Typical Canadian coward's wrong facts.
canada was french and thats why there cowards. Put up the white surrender flags.
America was found by Columbus and then the English settled. Americans went there own way and became the greatest nation ever on earth. Canadians like PainPleasure, grantcdn, boy of destiny, smileexpert and teleman all come on bashing Americans when they wish they were American.
Wake up! There are American Queen fans posting here. You can't say we don't get it. So stop envius canadians bashing America all the time.


And you little boy, do you have greater arguments? Worthless arguying with someone like you, leave it to the big ones.
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GET BACK ON TOPIC!
*wallops all involved parties with lacrosse mallet*
HE ROCKS US STILL. Proud Supporter of the Queen Lives Compilation
M
I'll try to cut this down into a post that can be read.
PainPleasure wrote:

The territories of the 13 colonies were a tiny stip that didn't go beyond the Alleghany mountains, if you know what they are.


Which, most importanly, is where the majority of the European population happened to live.

PainPleasure wrote:

The territories of France were extended from the rocky mountains, as the French didn't explore what was beyond until around 1743 when La Vérendrye explored beyond it with is sons. So, French territories went from the Rocky Mountains in the west, thru the Alleghanys in the east, thru The Hudson Bay in the North and the Gulf of Mexico in the South.


But what was the French presence in this land? A few fur trappers, perhaps. France could claim anything they wanted, but the fact of the matter is they controlled far less than you want to believe. Again, their permanent establishments were few and far between.

PainPleasure wrote:

Yeah, and did he take possession of the territories in the name of Spain?


I'm not exactly sure what Coronado claimed during that trip, but the Spanish did claim much of the American Southwest. Again, what they claimed and what they controlled were two different things. If anyone can make a legitimate claim to owning half of North America, it was the Spanish.

PainPleasure wrote:

Event if the Puritans didn't settle most of the colonies, they were the most dominant ones, way of thinking, economy, religion, etc, so their philosophy was spreaded everywhere in the US, so this, why religion, even today is so important to the Americans.


Just because you want to believe it does not make it true. Puritans did have an influence, but so did the Anglicans, Baptists, Presbyterians, and Methodists. Puritans abolished slavery, yet slavery dominated American politics until 1865. New York became the leading port in the US, and it was far removed from Puritan New England. More immigrants in the seventeenth century went to Virginia than Massachusettes. I could go on, but it seems evidence will not convince you.

It's a copout to blame American values on Puritanism. If you seriously want to study the history of American religious values, then you have to look at the Great Awakenings of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

PainPleasure wrote:

I think I have a lot more patience than you and my goal is not of bashing the US, if you can see it.


I'm not the one who posted "That is despotism and the US suck real hard." Nor did I insult Canada or France in any way. I think I'm a pretty patient person, except when I see ignorance being flauted as education.

PainPleasure wrote:

Ok, so what makes you so sure of that just by seeing the wrong facts you're giving?

So, in conclusion, I can see that your exposé is just about saying wrong things, just for the sake of having the last word? Or maybe, just to shut up
a french speaking person, because like most of WASP people, you believe that everything that's not white and doesn't speak english is not valuable.


Tell me, what's factually wrong there? Nothing. You are the one making claims that overstate your case. I'm not the one playing the race card, nor have I dragged Protestantism into the issue either. In fact, you're the one making the assumption that I am white and Protestant.

You are restating nothing more than common myths about American history that have little to do with the reality of the situation.

I don't want to shut you up, just to educate you.
DJ's the man we love the most
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rockyracoon wrote:

Just out of curiosity, what is your background, education, age, etc?


Currently at work on a PhD in American History, of all things.
DJ's the man we love the most
S
I didn't slam Americans or their country...I simply put my own opinion out there as to WHY I think Music has become a popularity contest.

I simply use a couple of American artists - tho the same could easily be said for some British and/or Canadian artists quite easily - to demonstrate my point.

Case example for how music became a popularity contest in England...Victoria Beckham's solo record.

Case example for how music became a popularity contest in Canada...Ryan Malcom's (our first Canadian Idol) solo record.

There - ya happy now? I've made my case for other countries. i.e. this popularity contest notion is EVERYWHERE.

Andrew

ps...Canada is and forever will be the best country in the world...and we have the best beer and the best Hockey Team!!
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scott__mercury

Show me anywhere that I have done any bashing of the U.S. You won't find it.
On the other hand you have done nothing but take pot shots at Canada.
Personally I love the country I live in and think it would be nice for anyone to visit. It isn't perfect but it is my home and I look at all Canadians as being family.

smileexpert wrote:


Case example for how music became a popularity contest in Canada...Ryan Malcom's (our first Canadian Idol) solo record.



This is for my fellow canucks

There was a bomb scare in Toronto..............
Somebody found Ryan Malcom's CD LOL
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And we still have the best beer and the best hockey team in the world!!

:)
S
Hooray for Canadians!
And Brits like us more. ^_^
HE ROCKS US STILL. Proud Supporter of the Queen Lives Compilation
R
I am an Australian who thinks that the aussie culture is by far the best ( obviously ).

but I lived in England and I must admit I love the culture there. Especially the music. I used to watch Music channels in England and hey would do a countdown of the hundred greatest songs ever voted by the public. While I wouldn't agree with everything on it i must say i was astounded to how much better the lists were than US lists I had seen, and they had Bo Rap number 1!

British music is generally much better than anyone elses. even today while r 'n' b and Hip Hop is taking over the world britain is resisting, they are still providing good rock bands like the Darkness and Coldplay. We need more of them! The Brits love a good rock song.
im growing my hair like Brian May...
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Zeni,

Thanks for responding. Your education is manifesting itself, whether you intended that or not. You know what you're talking about, and you write very well.

Thanks for contributing to this board. Unfortunately, about a third of the people on this board can't write, can't spell, and make ridiculous mistakes of grammar or syntax. And altogether too many of them don't know what they're talking about. You, on the other hand, are a breath of fresh air.

Rocky
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Thanks for the kind words, Rocky.
DJ's the man we love the most
G
Hey Scott,

I'm actually not bashing Americans...if anything it's the people at the top making the decision in record companies and magazines and radio stations to play crap all the time and not to play Queen enough and give Queen the respect they deserve.....It may so happen that those people making that decision may be Americans but even I'm not so sure about that....the problem is there is crap on the radio, and the world (in particular in the US because that is where the power and money is), is seeking prettier people, simpler music, and what ever it takes to make money faster.....I quite like Americans and have always liked Americans and enjoyed partying with them and I quite like all of North America some of my favourite states would include California, Florida, Maine, Arizona and Utah....am I envious?? not a chance, after all we do have better hockey and better beer.... I'd still take Canadian beer over McDonalds anyday....no offense intended...
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rockyracoon wrote:
Unfortunately, about a third of the people on this board can't write, can't spell, and make ridiculous mistakes of grammar or syntax.


I sure does hate dat. It be so tru.
Q
from what i have seen in my offical queen book the usa will only have two show.
i wish they would have more because i would like to see a queen show
there can be only one from highlander queen and hayden christensen rules