[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Bohemian<br><font size=1>777 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]@Haystacks
Banning someone may be a solution for "wrestlers" living in and defending "the spirit" of a communist country like China...
Never knew up until now that Ohio (or Pennsylvania?) can already be counted as part of the "greater Beijing metropolitan-area"?! ;-)
LOL! Yes I forgot to reply to that part of the thread. The idea of banning her is absurd. Even if none of us believed Arlene's good intentions that still wouldn't be a reason to ban anyone!!
@YourValentine & Fairy
Very well said Barbara(?) and Francesca... couldn´t have said it or expressed my thoughts any better...!!![/QUOTE]
Thanks Frank dear!!! :-)
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Posts in chronological order
Boy, I started a shit storm, didn't I????
This is the jist of what I am saying. There is ample opportunity in this country to find work. It may not be the kind of work that you like, it may not be the kind of work that you went to college for, but there is plenty of work out there.
Arlene is, without a doubt, in a terrible pickle. Apparently, she has nothing lined up in terms of a dependable job, and lives in an area that she, simply put, can no longer afford to live in. Added to that, she also cannot afford to move to a more affordable area.
My point was that instead of posting on here, and then shooting down the offers of help by us, perhaps she should have planned for this YEARS AGO. She, at some point, must assume personal responsibility for the situation that she finds herself in.
There. Now, regarding the America bashing thing. John, I was responding to our dear social worker, not to you. I, personally, think that the US is the best country in the world. Others do not share that opinion, and they have every right to do that. However, when you have someone like her, using all the sweeping, and frankly ignorant generalizations that the media force feeds her, it needs to be called out.
My point about "This is America, for Christ's sake", in simple terms, is that there is opportunity here for everyone, but it is up to the individual to make the proper choices in life in order to be successful. It is not governments fault if you make bad choices and screw things up. That said, there are numerous programs out there to help those folks who do foul thier lives up. Welfare, charity, food stamps, rent vouchers, all of those are good things, neccesary things. Unfortunately, there are many who play the system, which really screws things up for people like Arlene, who really needs help, but cannot get it.
This is the jist of what I am saying. There is ample opportunity in this country to find work. It may not be the kind of work that you like, it may not be the kind of work that you went to college for, but there is plenty of work out there.
Arlene is, without a doubt, in a terrible pickle. Apparently, she has nothing lined up in terms of a dependable job, and lives in an area that she, simply put, can no longer afford to live in. Added to that, she also cannot afford to move to a more affordable area.
My point was that instead of posting on here, and then shooting down the offers of help by us, perhaps she should have planned for this YEARS AGO. She, at some point, must assume personal responsibility for the situation that she finds herself in.
There. Now, regarding the America bashing thing. John, I was responding to our dear social worker, not to you. I, personally, think that the US is the best country in the world. Others do not share that opinion, and they have every right to do that. However, when you have someone like her, using all the sweeping, and frankly ignorant generalizations that the media force feeds her, it needs to be called out.
My point about "This is America, for Christ's sake", in simple terms, is that there is opportunity here for everyone, but it is up to the individual to make the proper choices in life in order to be successful. It is not governments fault if you make bad choices and screw things up. That said, there are numerous programs out there to help those folks who do foul thier lives up. Welfare, charity, food stamps, rent vouchers, all of those are good things, neccesary things. Unfortunately, there are many who play the system, which really screws things up for people like Arlene, who really needs help, but cannot get it.
BTW, I wasn't serious about banning Arlene, but I just do not see what good it does to have 16 pages on the subject. I liked it better when she was posting her articles....
Obviously, I was wrong, as this topic has turned into a firestorm as well.
" You can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!!!"
Otter
Obviously, I was wrong, as this topic has turned into a firestorm as well.
" You can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America!!!"
Otter
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zeni wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Haystacks Calhoun wrote: [/QUOTENAME] I said before, you will find that in America, a lot of your "professional students", as Arlene is, tend to have the hardest time finding and keeping a decent job. Why do you think that is?
[/QUOTE]
You tell me.
By all means, define "professional student." And, unless I missed something, how is Arlene a "professional student"? She said she has two degrees, which could mean she had a double major for that matter. I suppose that under your definition I am a "professional student" which must mean I can't find and hold down a decent job.
I find your assumptions about "professional students" rather ignorant. Sure, there are individuals who use school to avoid responsiblities, but then there are also non-academic people who bounce from job to job with the same mentality.
Or do you just have some hidden contempt for higher education? Not unusual, at all. Many middle-class conservatives find higher education too elitist and liberal for their liking.
[/QUOTE]
Talk about sweeping generalizations...
I is a colledge edukated boy, first of all, and have nothing but hte utmost respect for those who choose to better themselves, and enhance their future opportunities by educating themselves.
That said, at some point, be it fresh out of high school, or after 8 years of college, you have to find a job, and stick with it. That, to my mind, is the single best way to assure success later in life.
In my business, I see people all the time who jump from job to job every 3-6 months, looking for the fast buck, and when the first sign of adversity pops up, they move on. Now, simply judging my what Arlene has told us about her situation, with the education she has, it seemed to me that she may well fit that bill.
To further illustrate, I went to college, majored in Elementary Education at Miami University. Now, almost 9 1/2 years later, the only people that I have to answer to where I work are the owners. I started here after college in the summer of '96, and stayed. I had ample opportunity to move on, but chose to stay in one place. I could have made the choice to bounce from place to place, but instead picked the conservative option, if you will. Not the job I thought that I would be doing when I graduated, but seeing opportunity and grabbing it is crucial to overall success in life.
Sadly, I make more than double the salary of a teacher, but that is another indictment altogether. When a Sales Manager makes more than a Teacher, some priority somewhere is seriously flawed.....
[/QUOTE]
You tell me.
By all means, define "professional student." And, unless I missed something, how is Arlene a "professional student"? She said she has two degrees, which could mean she had a double major for that matter. I suppose that under your definition I am a "professional student" which must mean I can't find and hold down a decent job.
I find your assumptions about "professional students" rather ignorant. Sure, there are individuals who use school to avoid responsiblities, but then there are also non-academic people who bounce from job to job with the same mentality.
Or do you just have some hidden contempt for higher education? Not unusual, at all. Many middle-class conservatives find higher education too elitist and liberal for their liking.
[/QUOTE]
Talk about sweeping generalizations...
I is a colledge edukated boy, first of all, and have nothing but hte utmost respect for those who choose to better themselves, and enhance their future opportunities by educating themselves.
That said, at some point, be it fresh out of high school, or after 8 years of college, you have to find a job, and stick with it. That, to my mind, is the single best way to assure success later in life.
In my business, I see people all the time who jump from job to job every 3-6 months, looking for the fast buck, and when the first sign of adversity pops up, they move on. Now, simply judging my what Arlene has told us about her situation, with the education she has, it seemed to me that she may well fit that bill.
To further illustrate, I went to college, majored in Elementary Education at Miami University. Now, almost 9 1/2 years later, the only people that I have to answer to where I work are the owners. I started here after college in the summer of '96, and stayed. I had ample opportunity to move on, but chose to stay in one place. I could have made the choice to bounce from place to place, but instead picked the conservative option, if you will. Not the job I thought that I would be doing when I graduated, but seeing opportunity and grabbing it is crucial to overall success in life.
Sadly, I make more than double the salary of a teacher, but that is another indictment altogether. When a Sales Manager makes more than a Teacher, some priority somewhere is seriously flawed.....
"When a Sales Manager makes more than a Teacher, some priority somewhere is seriously flawed....."
Agree! Same happens here. I'm a MSc, a damned high class engineer and... Well, I don't want to complain...
Agree! Same happens here. I'm a MSc, a damned high class engineer and... Well, I don't want to complain...
Barbara, you've made some excellent points. However, something in your post bothered me.
People were not treated as people before Bush was elected. The only difference is now the media is much more free to report about such things.
You are right, of course, in some of the things you say, but not regarding the war on terror. Extreme measures have been taken in the attempts to arrest terrorists all over the world. Fortunately, few countries in the world experienced such a high level of terrorism as the USA did, so they do not fully understand the meaning of terror.
What would have happened if German athletes had been murdered as well in the 1972 Munich Olympics? I have no doubt you would think otherwise. People look at things differently when they get hurt.
People were not treated as people before Bush was elected. The only difference is now the media is much more free to report about such things.
You are right, of course, in some of the things you say, but not regarding the war on terror. Extreme measures have been taken in the attempts to arrest terrorists all over the world. Fortunately, few countries in the world experienced such a high level of terrorism as the USA did, so they do not fully understand the meaning of terror.
What would have happened if German athletes had been murdered as well in the 1972 Munich Olympics? I have no doubt you would think otherwise. People look at things differently when they get hurt.
What bothered me the most about what Barbara said is that America is put at the same level as brutal regimes. I think this is absurd, no matter what one thinks of the war and of Bush. Facts speak for themselves, and comparing the US to North Korea and China is absurd.
Again, it doesn't matter how much one dislikes Bush or the States. There is simply no comparison, and such statements that go against common sense are offensive to Americans and also to any person willing to see things objectively.
Again, it doesn't matter how much one dislikes Bush or the States. There is simply no comparison, and such statements that go against common sense are offensive to Americans and also to any person willing to see things objectively.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Fairy wrote: [/QUOTENAME]What bothered me the most about what Barbara said is that America is put at the same level as brutal regimes. I think this is absurd, no matter what one thinks of the war and of Bush. Facts speak for themselves, and comparing the US to North Korea and China is absurd.
Again, it doesn't matter how much one dislikes Bush or the States. There is simply no comparison, and such statements that go against common sense are offensive to Americans and also to any person willing to see things objectively.
[/QUOTE]
That's correct. Somehow, I overlooked that part.
Again, it doesn't matter how much one dislikes Bush or the States. There is simply no comparison, and such statements that go against common sense are offensive to Americans and also to any person willing to see things objectively.
[/QUOTE]
That's correct. Somehow, I overlooked that part.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Guy wrote:
Extreme measures have been taken in the attempts to arrest terrorists all over the world. Fortunately, few countries in the world experienced such a high level of terrorism as the USA did, so they do not fully understand the meaning of terror.
[/QUOTE]
I think you may need to revise this Guy. As far as I know, the level of terrorism meted out at the USA tragically occured during the 911 attacks.
By comparison, apart from the tragic bombings in London earlier this year, the UK (including Northern Ireland) spent at least 20 years under the shadow of IRA terroism, in part sponsored by US funding.
Spain, Greece, Israel, Bali, parts of Africa and even Australia have all been blighted by terrorism in recent times.
So to say "few countries in the world experienced such a high level of terrorism as the USA", really is either very FAR from the mark indeed - or you know very little regarding the rest of the world.
Extreme measures have been taken in the attempts to arrest terrorists all over the world. Fortunately, few countries in the world experienced such a high level of terrorism as the USA did, so they do not fully understand the meaning of terror.
[/QUOTE]
I think you may need to revise this Guy. As far as I know, the level of terrorism meted out at the USA tragically occured during the 911 attacks.
By comparison, apart from the tragic bombings in London earlier this year, the UK (including Northern Ireland) spent at least 20 years under the shadow of IRA terroism, in part sponsored by US funding.
Spain, Greece, Israel, Bali, parts of Africa and even Australia have all been blighted by terrorism in recent times.
So to say "few countries in the world experienced such a high level of terrorism as the USA", really is either very FAR from the mark indeed - or you know very little regarding the rest of the world.
...and again everyone forgot about 1000 killed Russian children in the terrorist attack in Beslan...
It's OK to demand fairness for trials, good treatment for prisoners, transparency...But I always have the impression that all these legitimate concerns too often overshadow the crimes these individuals have committed, and the atrocious deeds their evil minds have been capable of planning (and with no remorse they would and will plan more). Sept. 11th is mentioned so seldom...Bashing Bush is fashionable...I'm just amazed to see so little indignation about what has been done to us (us = any righteous person in the world no matter where they live).
After Sept. 11th, the rules have changed. Mentality has changed. And I'm sorry, but even though Western Governments have made mistakes and still do, the major blame is on those who started it all.
Sure, the reasons for terrorism are complex and we all have our share of fault, but NOTHING can justify hijacking of planes with innocent civilians used to kill other innocent civilians, and this on purpose, to target the innocent.
After Sept. 11th, the rules have changed. Mentality has changed. And I'm sorry, but even though Western Governments have made mistakes and still do, the major blame is on those who started it all.
Sure, the reasons for terrorism are complex and we all have our share of fault, but NOTHING can justify hijacking of planes with innocent civilians used to kill other innocent civilians, and this on purpose, to target the innocent.
So Barry your theory is: let them alone so they won't attack us? Let the US fight alone because it's their business? In the Twin Towers there were people of all nationalities and religions. Don't tell me you seriously think Sept. 11th was just an attack to the US, do you?
Oh OK you said you won't post in this thread anymore LOL.
Oh OK you said you won't post in this thread anymore LOL.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Serry<h6>Inventor of terrible English wrote: [/QUOTENAME]...and again everyone forgot about 1000 killed Russian children in the terrorist attack in Beslan...[/QUOTE]
I haven't......
If I recall, Putin dealt with those responsible.
I haven't......
If I recall, Putin dealt with those responsible.
I come from Colombia, and I know for a fact that the anti-American sentiment spread by the left wing in Latin America is completely biased and based on pure bitterness.
Government universities for low income students are the most common place where young people get brainwashed into believing that all Americans are evil, greedy, arrogant, selfish, and power hungry. My cousin goes to one of those universities and she's already brainwashed into believing a whole bunch of extreme left wing crap. It makes me sick to the stomach to realize that she has become one of those idiots who idolize Che Guevara.
Last christmas we had this Cuban guy who is a friend of my brother in law. He told us that his grandfather was a Cuban residing in Spain, and he joined Castro during the Cuban Revolution. Then, when Castro came into power, his grandfather wanted to go back to Spain, but Castro wouldn't allow him and he ended up being tortured when he made an attempt to flee Cuba. So you see, there's nothing more hypocritical than when both the extreme left and right wing go waving their "freedom flags" when in fact they are the nothing but opressors.
Government universities for low income students are the most common place where young people get brainwashed into believing that all Americans are evil, greedy, arrogant, selfish, and power hungry. My cousin goes to one of those universities and she's already brainwashed into believing a whole bunch of extreme left wing crap. It makes me sick to the stomach to realize that she has become one of those idiots who idolize Che Guevara.
Last christmas we had this Cuban guy who is a friend of my brother in law. He told us that his grandfather was a Cuban residing in Spain, and he joined Castro during the Cuban Revolution. Then, when Castro came into power, his grandfather wanted to go back to Spain, but Castro wouldn't allow him and he ended up being tortured when he made an attempt to flee Cuba. So you see, there's nothing more hypocritical than when both the extreme left and right wing go waving their "freedom flags" when in fact they are the nothing but opressors.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Now you say you are not responsible because you did not vote for Bush and his approval rate is on an all time low. But isn't that the same lazy attitude you blame Arlene for in the other thread? You are citizens of this beautiful country and you are the ones who have to make the difference.[/QUOTE]
I still don't know what I personally or anyone else could have done to make a difference. The man was elected, well..technically he WASN'T on his first term..., so what could be done? There were plenty of people that were extremely upset by Bush's re-election. And it seems to me that almost everyone in the entire country agrees that he is an inarticulate moron. All I can do is show up to the polls and cast my vote. Other than that, I am clueless. If I were to stand on the street corner of anywhere in South Carolina (a VERY RED, VERY conservative state) protesting Bush, I'm liable to get hurt..:-S
I still don't know what I personally or anyone else could have done to make a difference. The man was elected, well..technically he WASN'T on his first term..., so what could be done? There were plenty of people that were extremely upset by Bush's re-election. And it seems to me that almost everyone in the entire country agrees that he is an inarticulate moron. All I can do is show up to the polls and cast my vote. Other than that, I am clueless. If I were to stand on the street corner of anywhere in South Carolina (a VERY RED, VERY conservative state) protesting Bush, I'm liable to get hurt..:-S