I hate people that think all Muslims are Terrorists people who think like that should be locked up
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Haruko Aozora wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Haruko Aozora wrote: [/QUOTENAME]The Romans (and the ancient Greeks) were quite open with other religions than their... they borrowed a lot of gods from everywhere. THe problem with christianity was that it was too different and it was a possible danger...[/QUOTE]
A) Neither actually adopted foreign deities into their own religion; they just ALLOWED other religions PROVIDING their practicioners would still comply to all the demands made by the state religion. So in fact, it would be something like the US allowing you to practice any religion you like, as long as you are a protestant as well.
B) The problem with Christianity was that it refused to accept other religions. That's why they clashed with the authorities. Judaism had the same thing, but since they did not attempt to convert others, they were left alone (by the Romans, at least).[/QUOTE]
hm...
A) Well they officially adopted deities from the Greeks (Zeus & co), Egiptians (what about the myth of Isis which was very popular in Roman times). Oh, and the greeks, they adopted Dyonissos (who some of you might know as Bacchus - the Roman version), and many many others... Cybele... just check the history of the greek/roman gods and you'll see.
I agree with B)[/QUOTE]
It doesn't seem, to me, at least, that a lot of the racism from the Romans had grounds in religion. I think it moreso stemmed from the grounds of, "We are so much better than everyone else because of our superior strength."[/QUOTE]
well their strength was based mostly on the army and the violence I'd say... more developed peoples who were far superior than the Greeks or the Romans perished due to that. Sadly... :-(
A) Neither actually adopted foreign deities into their own religion; they just ALLOWED other religions PROVIDING their practicioners would still comply to all the demands made by the state religion. So in fact, it would be something like the US allowing you to practice any religion you like, as long as you are a protestant as well.
B) The problem with Christianity was that it refused to accept other religions. That's why they clashed with the authorities. Judaism had the same thing, but since they did not attempt to convert others, they were left alone (by the Romans, at least).[/QUOTE]
hm...
A) Well they officially adopted deities from the Greeks (Zeus & co), Egiptians (what about the myth of Isis which was very popular in Roman times). Oh, and the greeks, they adopted Dyonissos (who some of you might know as Bacchus - the Roman version), and many many others... Cybele... just check the history of the greek/roman gods and you'll see.
I agree with B)[/QUOTE]
It doesn't seem, to me, at least, that a lot of the racism from the Romans had grounds in religion. I think it moreso stemmed from the grounds of, "We are so much better than everyone else because of our superior strength."[/QUOTE]
well their strength was based mostly on the army and the violence I'd say... more developed peoples who were far superior than the Greeks or the Romans perished due to that. Sadly... :-(
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's not a matter of religion... it's matter of tolerance and acceptance. [/QUOTE]
It's a matter of control, and religion is the best way to control people. Their souls are at stake. Tell them they'll reach the promised land if only they... fill in the blank ...and they will. For salvation. If it means torturing people in the name of whatever God they happen to believe in, then that's what they'll do, that's what they've done (through the centuries) and that's what they'll continue to do.
IMO, religion - and how some in power manipulate it - is the greatest hatemonger in the world.[/QUOTE]
What some people seem to have been ignoring here is that there are still a lot of people who do good deeds in the name of religion.
Sure, there are tons of religious zealots who do nothing but spread hatred against anyone who doesn't share their same views.
I can't deny the fact that religion has been used as a tool of fear and power, but why only see the ugly side of religion?
What about all the charity organizations and people who based on their faith believe on helping others? [/QUOTE]
Why only see the ugly side of religion? I can only answer for me. I was raised roman catholic. In other words, I was raised to be afraid. I was raised to feel guilty for everything except praying. A child who falls asleep each night in tears while praying so hard for forgiveness of sins s/he might have committed that will get him/her thrown into the fiery depths of hell, grows into an angry, resentful adult. At least that's how it was in my case. Add to that trauma of childhood, current world events and doctrines, and you cannot help but see only the ugly side.
Faith-based charities don't attract me. Perhaps they're doing good deeds, perhaps they're spreading their warped and narrow beliefs. I neither know nor care because my experience with faith has been torturous. I do not support any faith-based charities and in fact go out of my way to make sure when I sponsor something it is in no way connected to any church or religion.
I feel only fury when religion is discussed. Religion, IMO, cuckolds the human race. Destroys dreams and potential in the name of all that is holy. Fuck that. Why see only the ugly side of religion? Because, as history and current events prove, religion soils the world.
[/QUOTE]
I was raised Roman Catholic as well, and while I do understand why you've turned your back to any religion, it's not fair to single out anyone who follows a faith under the same category as fundamentalists, zealots and hypocrites.
I consider myself a christian, and I don't follow any religious institution in particular. Many of my friends happen to be agnostic or atheist. Yet, I don't go around telling them what to believe in, and neither they do criticize what I believe in. All I know is that they're kind people who believe that we were put into this world to help each other, to understand, to be compassionate, and forgiving.
Little does it matter whether they think Jesus is the son of God or not. Never once I thought that they should become christian in order to save their souls and go to heaven (if there's such thing).
I know I'm not the only christian who accepts and embraces those who think different. My grandma for instance is very devout Catholic, and while we disagree on certain things, there's more in common than what we think. As an old lady
In the end, there's no difference between whether someone is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Atheist, or Agnostic. As corny as this might sound, all that matter is what's on everyone's heart.
Please don't misjudge everyone who chooses to have a faith. I suggest you get to know people better because not everyone who follows some sort of religion is as close
It's a matter of control, and religion is the best way to control people. Their souls are at stake. Tell them they'll reach the promised land if only they... fill in the blank ...and they will. For salvation. If it means torturing people in the name of whatever God they happen to believe in, then that's what they'll do, that's what they've done (through the centuries) and that's what they'll continue to do.
IMO, religion - and how some in power manipulate it - is the greatest hatemonger in the world.[/QUOTE]
What some people seem to have been ignoring here is that there are still a lot of people who do good deeds in the name of religion.
Sure, there are tons of religious zealots who do nothing but spread hatred against anyone who doesn't share their same views.
I can't deny the fact that religion has been used as a tool of fear and power, but why only see the ugly side of religion?
What about all the charity organizations and people who based on their faith believe on helping others? [/QUOTE]
Why only see the ugly side of religion? I can only answer for me. I was raised roman catholic. In other words, I was raised to be afraid. I was raised to feel guilty for everything except praying. A child who falls asleep each night in tears while praying so hard for forgiveness of sins s/he might have committed that will get him/her thrown into the fiery depths of hell, grows into an angry, resentful adult. At least that's how it was in my case. Add to that trauma of childhood, current world events and doctrines, and you cannot help but see only the ugly side.
Faith-based charities don't attract me. Perhaps they're doing good deeds, perhaps they're spreading their warped and narrow beliefs. I neither know nor care because my experience with faith has been torturous. I do not support any faith-based charities and in fact go out of my way to make sure when I sponsor something it is in no way connected to any church or religion.
I feel only fury when religion is discussed. Religion, IMO, cuckolds the human race. Destroys dreams and potential in the name of all that is holy. Fuck that. Why see only the ugly side of religion? Because, as history and current events prove, religion soils the world.
[/QUOTE]
I was raised Roman Catholic as well, and while I do understand why you've turned your back to any religion, it's not fair to single out anyone who follows a faith under the same category as fundamentalists, zealots and hypocrites.
I consider myself a christian, and I don't follow any religious institution in particular. Many of my friends happen to be agnostic or atheist. Yet, I don't go around telling them what to believe in, and neither they do criticize what I believe in. All I know is that they're kind people who believe that we were put into this world to help each other, to understand, to be compassionate, and forgiving.
Little does it matter whether they think Jesus is the son of God or not. Never once I thought that they should become christian in order to save their souls and go to heaven (if there's such thing).
I know I'm not the only christian who accepts and embraces those who think different. My grandma for instance is very devout Catholic, and while we disagree on certain things, there's more in common than what we think. As an old lady
In the end, there's no difference between whether someone is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Atheist, or Agnostic. As corny as this might sound, all that matter is what's on everyone's heart.
Please don't misjudge everyone who chooses to have a faith. I suggest you get to know people better because not everyone who follows some sort of religion is as close
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
In the end, there's no difference between whether someone is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Atheist, or Agnostic. As corny as this might sound, all that matter is what's on everyone's heart.
Please don't misjudge everyone who chooses to have a faith. I suggest you get to know people better because not everyone who follows some sort of religion is as close minded as you think they are. [/QUOTE]
Please understand, I don't automatically judge believers. If someone's faith gives them strength in times of need, then more power to them. I know there are extremists/purists in everything and I don't feel someone who goes to church every Sunday is one of them. But I do feel religion has caused more grief and terror than any other ONE thing throughout history. AND someone who feels the need to beat me with their preaching is someone who will indeed be beaten back.
Regarding your comment about what matters is what's in a person's heart... that is something I absolutely agree with. That's what we've taught our daughter. I will not allow her to go to bed at night afraid of an afterlife punishment for having had an angry thought during the day. Instead, she's been taught to consider the opinions and feelings of others in her everyday interactions. I guess if we have any 'faith', it's in The Golden Rule.
So no, I don't sneer at or insult someone of a faith simply because they're believers, and I know not all are closed-minded. But when I hear of war or threats or fighting in the name of god, I can't help but roll my eyes in utter disgust - for them, for their religion and for their 'god'.
In the end, there's no difference between whether someone is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Atheist, or Agnostic. As corny as this might sound, all that matter is what's on everyone's heart.
Please don't misjudge everyone who chooses to have a faith. I suggest you get to know people better because not everyone who follows some sort of religion is as close minded as you think they are. [/QUOTE]
Please understand, I don't automatically judge believers. If someone's faith gives them strength in times of need, then more power to them. I know there are extremists/purists in everything and I don't feel someone who goes to church every Sunday is one of them. But I do feel religion has caused more grief and terror than any other ONE thing throughout history. AND someone who feels the need to beat me with their preaching is someone who will indeed be beaten back.
Regarding your comment about what matters is what's in a person's heart... that is something I absolutely agree with. That's what we've taught our daughter. I will not allow her to go to bed at night afraid of an afterlife punishment for having had an angry thought during the day. Instead, she's been taught to consider the opinions and feelings of others in her everyday interactions. I guess if we have any 'faith', it's in The Golden Rule.
So no, I don't sneer at or insult someone of a faith simply because they're believers, and I know not all are closed-minded. But when I hear of war or threats or fighting in the name of god, I can't help but roll my eyes in utter disgust - for them, for their religion and for their 'god'.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
In the end, there's no difference between whether someone is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Atheist, or Agnostic. As corny as this might sound, all that matter is what's on everyone's heart.
Please don't misjudge everyone who chooses to have a faith. I suggest you get to know people better because not everyone who follows some sort of religion is as close minded as you think they are. [/QUOTE]
Please understand, I don't automatically judge believers. If someone's faith gives them strength in times of need, then more power to them. I know there are extremists/purists in everything and I don't feel someone who goes to church every Sunday is one of them. But I do feel religion has caused more grief and terror than any other ONE thing throughout history. AND someone who feels the need to beat me with their preaching is someone who will indeed be beaten back.
Regarding your comment about what matters is what's in a person's heart... that is something I absolutely agree with. That's what we've taught our daughter. I will not allow her to go to bed at night afraid of an afterlife punishment for having had an angry thought during the day. Instead, she's been taught to consider the opinions and feelings of others in her everyday interactions. I guess if we have any 'faith', it's in The Golden Rule.
So no, I don't sneer at or insult someone of a faith simply because they're believers, and I know not all are closed-minded. But when I hear of war or threats or fighting in the name of god, I can't help but roll my eyes in utter disgust - for them, for their religion and for their 'god'.
[/QUOTE]
Good for you! I get what both of you are saying here, really I do. Mr. Jingles has a point...not all religious people or people who have faith are close minded bigots. But I also get what MagicalFreddieMercury is saying. Especially on this college campus, you get so many of the religious bigots. We've actually got a guy, nicknamed "Preacher Rick" who stands in the middle of campus and screams at people as they walk by about how we are all going to hell unless we believe just like he does. (I've actually had some friends get into theological debates with him, and it's entertaining to watch him trip up over the hypocrises there) Personally, I'm not really religious either. I started seeing the hypocracies pretty early, and decided that I couldn't stick to any religion that said that a certain group was destined to go to hell (non-believers, homosexuals, etc) while at the same time professing "Judge not, lest ye be judged." I decided I was just going to try and do that, not judge, and to heck with the rest of the crap. Plus, I don't think one can really be a historian and see what religion has done in the past and still maintain faith.
I also roll my eyes and those who hijack faith in the name of whoever, and use it as an excuse to murder. If there is a hell, those are the people who wind up there I'm sure. Unfortunately, humans have changed very little in the last millenia, and I don't think we can get rid of those people.
In the end, there's no difference between whether someone is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Atheist, or Agnostic. As corny as this might sound, all that matter is what's on everyone's heart.
Please don't misjudge everyone who chooses to have a faith. I suggest you get to know people better because not everyone who follows some sort of religion is as close minded as you think they are. [/QUOTE]
Please understand, I don't automatically judge believers. If someone's faith gives them strength in times of need, then more power to them. I know there are extremists/purists in everything and I don't feel someone who goes to church every Sunday is one of them. But I do feel religion has caused more grief and terror than any other ONE thing throughout history. AND someone who feels the need to beat me with their preaching is someone who will indeed be beaten back.
Regarding your comment about what matters is what's in a person's heart... that is something I absolutely agree with. That's what we've taught our daughter. I will not allow her to go to bed at night afraid of an afterlife punishment for having had an angry thought during the day. Instead, she's been taught to consider the opinions and feelings of others in her everyday interactions. I guess if we have any 'faith', it's in The Golden Rule.
So no, I don't sneer at or insult someone of a faith simply because they're believers, and I know not all are closed-minded. But when I hear of war or threats or fighting in the name of god, I can't help but roll my eyes in utter disgust - for them, for their religion and for their 'god'.
[/QUOTE]
Good for you! I get what both of you are saying here, really I do. Mr. Jingles has a point...not all religious people or people who have faith are close minded bigots. But I also get what MagicalFreddieMercury is saying. Especially on this college campus, you get so many of the religious bigots. We've actually got a guy, nicknamed "Preacher Rick" who stands in the middle of campus and screams at people as they walk by about how we are all going to hell unless we believe just like he does. (I've actually had some friends get into theological debates with him, and it's entertaining to watch him trip up over the hypocrises there) Personally, I'm not really religious either. I started seeing the hypocracies pretty early, and decided that I couldn't stick to any religion that said that a certain group was destined to go to hell (non-believers, homosexuals, etc) while at the same time professing "Judge not, lest ye be judged." I decided I was just going to try and do that, not judge, and to heck with the rest of the crap. Plus, I don't think one can really be a historian and see what religion has done in the past and still maintain faith.
I also roll my eyes and those who hijack faith in the name of whoever, and use it as an excuse to murder. If there is a hell, those are the people who wind up there I'm sure. Unfortunately, humans have changed very little in the last millenia, and I don't think we can get rid of those people.
The good thing about religious hypocrites is that the shit they spew out of their mouths is ridiculously funny.
I'm starting to think that 'The 700 Club' is a funnier show than 'The Daily Show'... (Sorry, Jon Stewart).
Btw, your posts are always great, Maggie. Keep it up!
I'm starting to think that 'The 700 Club' is a funnier show than 'The Daily Show'... (Sorry, Jon Stewart).
Btw, your posts are always great, Maggie. Keep it up!
Reflecting back on things, in the Church I had gone to for the greater part of my life, which is a Roman Catholic Church, I am proud to say that I have never once heard homosexuals being denounced or unwelcome in the community; it was not stressed that non-believers will go to Hell (only the positive was stressed - that good deeds and a belief in Jesus Christ will grant you an eternity in Heaven); everyone was welcome in the Church regardless of faith, and it was hardly (if at all) recognized. The Church existed as a community first, and a religion second.
I think that this is the kind of Christianity that is currently growing and becoming prevalent in the United States and everywhere (I admit, probably moreso in the Blue states - I am from a Blue state - than in the Reds). It may not be obvious, and it won't ever get any media attention, but I think that this is how things are in a lot of Christian Churches and households, and the numbers must be growing.
However, this still didn't stop me from hating going to Church, which, forgive me for saying this, I thought was a waste of time. And super boring. Especially Sunday school (CCD as we knew it). It was kind of like when I tried out football. It was just boring and I couldn't be bothered. So that's how I became agnostic. Apathy.
I think that this is the kind of Christianity that is currently growing and becoming prevalent in the United States and everywhere (I admit, probably moreso in the Blue states - I am from a Blue state - than in the Reds). It may not be obvious, and it won't ever get any media attention, but I think that this is how things are in a lot of Christian Churches and households, and the numbers must be growing.
However, this still didn't stop me from hating going to Church, which, forgive me for saying this, I thought was a waste of time. And super boring. Especially Sunday school (CCD as we knew it). It was kind of like when I tried out football. It was just boring and I couldn't be bothered. So that's how I became agnostic. Apathy.
I used to go to Sunday School because I had a crush on a girl who used to go there.
That was when I was a pre-teen and my hormones started kicking.
But can God blame me? He's the one who made us horny.
That was when I was a pre-teen and my hormones started kicking.
But can God blame me? He's the one who made us horny.
Hey, being a Lutheran got me $4 a month car insurance
Thats God showing he loves us
Thats God showing he loves us
Thanks for the compliment, Dan! :-)
Someone mentioned going to a Catholic Church that was all positive...that's excellent. But not all Catholic Churches are that way. Not all Churches of any denomination are that way. I decided a long time ago that if being a "Good Christian" meant that I had to become a homophobic, sexist bigot then I wasn't interested.
I haven't gone to church in 2 years (not even for Christmas service....advantage to working night shift), but I remember going when I was younger. Like Dan, I remember going just because I had a crush on a guy two grades above me in school who also went to the church. He stopped going....I pretty quickly lost interest. **smirks**
Someone mentioned going to a Catholic Church that was all positive...that's excellent. But not all Catholic Churches are that way. Not all Churches of any denomination are that way. I decided a long time ago that if being a "Good Christian" meant that I had to become a homophobic, sexist bigot then I wasn't interested.
I haven't gone to church in 2 years (not even for Christmas service....advantage to working night shift), but I remember going when I was younger. Like Dan, I remember going just because I had a crush on a guy two grades above me in school who also went to the church. He stopped going....I pretty quickly lost interest. **smirks**
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]In a way, I'm like Death: everybody knows I'm coming, but no one knows when, and they aren't exactly eager for me to drop by either![/QUOTE]
Hahaha... brilliant!
Hahaha... brilliant!
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Thanks for the compliment, Dan! :-)
Someone mentioned going to a Catholic Church that was all positive...that's excellent. But not all Catholic Churches are that way. Not all Churches of any denomination are that way. I decided a long time ago that if being a "Good Christian" meant that I had to become a homophobic, sexist bigot then I wasn't interested.
I haven't gone to church in 2 years (not even for Christmas service....advantage to working night shift), but I remember going when I was younger. Like Dan, I remember going just because I had a crush on a guy two grades above me in school who also went to the church. He stopped going....I pretty quickly lost interest. **smirks**[/QUOTE]
I was simply pointing out that most Churches are like that, and it is of growing prevalence. I don't EVER recall a priest promoting homophobia, sexism, or bigotry in any Church I have ever been in (given, I haven't been in too many!). I have only ever heard the exact opposite.
But, when you say not all Catholic Churches are that way...that's true. Not all chess clubs endorse good chess strategy...not all student councils promote student government...not all colleges teach their students well...there's no such thing as perfection all across the board.
Someone mentioned going to a Catholic Church that was all positive...that's excellent. But not all Catholic Churches are that way. Not all Churches of any denomination are that way. I decided a long time ago that if being a "Good Christian" meant that I had to become a homophobic, sexist bigot then I wasn't interested.
I haven't gone to church in 2 years (not even for Christmas service....advantage to working night shift), but I remember going when I was younger. Like Dan, I remember going just because I had a crush on a guy two grades above me in school who also went to the church. He stopped going....I pretty quickly lost interest. **smirks**[/QUOTE]
I was simply pointing out that most Churches are like that, and it is of growing prevalence. I don't EVER recall a priest promoting homophobia, sexism, or bigotry in any Church I have ever been in (given, I haven't been in too many!). I have only ever heard the exact opposite.
But, when you say not all Catholic Churches are that way...that's true. Not all chess clubs endorse good chess strategy...not all student councils promote student government...not all colleges teach their students well...there's no such thing as perfection all across the board.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]The Artist Formerly Known As Paul JR wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Hey, being a Lutheran got me $4 a month car insurance[/QUOTE]
Anybody willing to convert me to Lutheranism? Yeah, good ol' Martin Luther. What a guy.
I haven't had any wrecks or tickets in the last three years either.
Anybody willing to convert me to Lutheranism? Yeah, good ol' Martin Luther. What a guy.
I haven't had any wrecks or tickets in the last three years either.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]CMU HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Thanks for the compliment, Dan! :-)
Someone mentioned going to a Catholic Church that was all positive...that's excellent. But not all Catholic Churches are that way. Not all Churches of any denomination are that way. I decided a long time ago that if being a "Good Christian" meant that I had to become a homophobic, sexist bigot then I wasn't interested.
I haven't gone to church in 2 years (not even for Christmas service....advantage to working night shift), but I remember going when I was younger. Like Dan, I remember going just because I had a crush on a guy two grades above me in school who also went to the church. He stopped going....I pretty quickly lost interest. **smirks**[/QUOTE]
I was simply pointing out that most Churches are like that, and it is of growing prevalence. I don't EVER recall a priest promoting homophobia, sexism, or bigotry in any Church I have ever been in (given, I haven't been in too many!). I have only ever heard the exact opposite.
But, when you say not all Catholic Churches are that way...that's true. Not all chess clubs endorse good chess strategy...not all student councils promote student government...not all colleges teach their students well...there's no such thing as perfection all across the board.[/QUOTE]
Indeed there is not. There is no such thing as perfection across the board. Basically, everyone just needs to look at everything as it comes. Your experience with the Church has been different from mine, and that's fine. They are both our experiences, and neither is more valid than the other.
Someone mentioned going to a Catholic Church that was all positive...that's excellent. But not all Catholic Churches are that way. Not all Churches of any denomination are that way. I decided a long time ago that if being a "Good Christian" meant that I had to become a homophobic, sexist bigot then I wasn't interested.
I haven't gone to church in 2 years (not even for Christmas service....advantage to working night shift), but I remember going when I was younger. Like Dan, I remember going just because I had a crush on a guy two grades above me in school who also went to the church. He stopped going....I pretty quickly lost interest. **smirks**[/QUOTE]
I was simply pointing out that most Churches are like that, and it is of growing prevalence. I don't EVER recall a priest promoting homophobia, sexism, or bigotry in any Church I have ever been in (given, I haven't been in too many!). I have only ever heard the exact opposite.
But, when you say not all Catholic Churches are that way...that's true. Not all chess clubs endorse good chess strategy...not all student councils promote student government...not all colleges teach their students well...there's no such thing as perfection all across the board.[/QUOTE]
Indeed there is not. There is no such thing as perfection across the board. Basically, everyone just needs to look at everything as it comes. Your experience with the Church has been different from mine, and that's fine. They are both our experiences, and neither is more valid than the other.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mircrowave! wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]The Artist Formerly Known As Paul JR wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Hey, being a Lutheran got me $4 a month car insurance[/QUOTE]
Anybody willing to convert me to Lutheranism? Yeah, good ol' Martin Luther. What a guy.
I haven't had any wrecks or tickets in the last three years either.[/QUOTE]
He, much like Giecko blesses people who convert to him with cheap car insurance
Anybody willing to convert me to Lutheranism? Yeah, good ol' Martin Luther. What a guy.
I haven't had any wrecks or tickets in the last three years either.[/QUOTE]
He, much like Giecko blesses people who convert to him with cheap car insurance