fuck terrorists...you guys can suck on my chocolate salty balls.
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Take the blinders off, folks.....
We have been in the middle of WWIII since 9/12/2001. Thankfully, we have leaders that, regardless of public opinion, realize what is at stake, and have put us in prime position to be ready for the next step in this war.
Don't kid yourselves, people. The War in Iraq is just a battle in the broader war that is still in its infancy. Take a good look at what is happening.
It is going to be a very, very long time before it gets better. How anyone can not see this is simply mind-blowing.
Also, I have been BOWLED over at the response from the radicals on this, just filling the airways with their rebuking of the suicide bombers-to-be.
Pretty soon, you'll have the New York Times running front page stories about how Britain trampled on the rights of the would be bombers.
Sadly, though, the liberal wing around the world keeps singing the same old song and dance. What will it take for them to remove the blinders?????
We have been in the middle of WWIII since 9/12/2001. Thankfully, we have leaders that, regardless of public opinion, realize what is at stake, and have put us in prime position to be ready for the next step in this war.
Don't kid yourselves, people. The War in Iraq is just a battle in the broader war that is still in its infancy. Take a good look at what is happening.
It is going to be a very, very long time before it gets better. How anyone can not see this is simply mind-blowing.
Also, I have been BOWLED over at the response from the radicals on this, just filling the airways with their rebuking of the suicide bombers-to-be.
Pretty soon, you'll have the New York Times running front page stories about how Britain trampled on the rights of the would be bombers.
Sadly, though, the liberal wing around the world keeps singing the same old song and dance. What will it take for them to remove the blinders?????
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=red>Flash! wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
I HOPE THESE MEN ROT IN HELL FOR ETERNITY.
What sick-minded BASTARD would want to kill so many innocent people for no REAL purpose?
[/QUOTE]
Because our so called "leaders" are also responsible for killing innocent people.[/QUOTE]
To give them the benefit of the doubt, using the deaths of innocent people as a means to an end (such as Hitler did, as that seems to be a popular topic), which is what terrorists do, is far worse than accidentally incurring the deaths of innocent people as the aftermath of a means that was not necessarily well thought out, as is the result of the actions of the United States and Great Britain. We must not forget that intent should be weighed far more considerably than result.[/QUOTE]
When someone's loved ones have been killed by "accident", there's little difference between what's either done on purpose or putting civilians lives in danger for the sake of killing terrorists. Especially when it comes to unjustified conflicts like in Iraq or Lebanon.
Our leaders might apologize for accidental loss of human lives, but I seriously doubt that they give a shit.[/QUOTE]
The justification for the conflict in Iraq is still up to debate, so to assume that there is a clear conclusion is not very wise. However, regardless of how things are perceived in the eyes of the victim, my point still stands...
For example, if I got hit in the head from a home-run baseball from a local stadium, it is almost expected that I would be angry at the stadium, or the teams playing, or the hitter of the ball, for this. However, it is not really reasonable to place a large degree of blame on them.
I HOPE THESE MEN ROT IN HELL FOR ETERNITY.
What sick-minded BASTARD would want to kill so many innocent people for no REAL purpose?
[/QUOTE]
Because our so called "leaders" are also responsible for killing innocent people.[/QUOTE]
To give them the benefit of the doubt, using the deaths of innocent people as a means to an end (such as Hitler did, as that seems to be a popular topic), which is what terrorists do, is far worse than accidentally incurring the deaths of innocent people as the aftermath of a means that was not necessarily well thought out, as is the result of the actions of the United States and Great Britain. We must not forget that intent should be weighed far more considerably than result.[/QUOTE]
When someone's loved ones have been killed by "accident", there's little difference between what's either done on purpose or putting civilians lives in danger for the sake of killing terrorists. Especially when it comes to unjustified conflicts like in Iraq or Lebanon.
Our leaders might apologize for accidental loss of human lives, but I seriously doubt that they give a shit.[/QUOTE]
The justification for the conflict in Iraq is still up to debate, so to assume that there is a clear conclusion is not very wise. However, regardless of how things are perceived in the eyes of the victim, my point still stands...
For example, if I got hit in the head from a home-run baseball from a local stadium, it is almost expected that I would be angry at the stadium, or the teams playing, or the hitter of the ball, for this. However, it is not really reasonable to place a large degree of blame on them.
There's a HUGE difference between common accidents and war.
War is absolutely the last resolve to put an end to a conflict. By now we all know that the war in Iraq was completely unjustified. 40,000 civilians lives lost, over 2,000 American soldiers dead, and hundreds of thousands of innocent people injured were not worth taking Saddam Hussein out. Especially when we know now that he was far less the kind of threat that the Bush Admnistration made us believe he was.
War is absolutely the last resolve to put an end to a conflict. By now we all know that the war in Iraq was completely unjustified. 40,000 civilians lives lost, over 2,000 American soldiers dead, and hundreds of thousands of innocent people injured were not worth taking Saddam Hussein out. Especially when we know now that he was far less the kind of threat that the Bush Admnistration made us believe he was.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Haystacks Calhounski wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Take the blinders off, folks.....
We have been in the middle of WWIII since 9/12/2001. Thankfully, we have leaders that, regardless of public opinion, realize what is at stake, and have put us in prime position to be ready for the next step in this war.
Don't kid yourselves, people. The War in Iraq is just a battle in the broader war that is still in its infancy. Take a good look at what is happening.
It is going to be a very, very long time before it gets better. How anyone can not see this is simply mind-blowing.
Also, I have been BOWLED over at the response from the radicals on this, just filling the airways with their rebuking of the suicide bombers-to-be.
Pretty soon, you'll have the New York Times running front page stories about how Britain trampled on the rights of the would be bombers.
Sadly, though, the liberal wing around the world keeps singing the same old song and dance. What will it take for them to remove the blinders?????[/QUOTE]
Let's see what the conservative/right wing has to offer to make the world a better place?... the same as the radical left... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Has Iraq made the world a safer place?... NO
Why is Osama Bin Laden still on the run?... GOD KNOWS WHY!
Are we safer now than since September 11th?... Obviously not, and chances are the things will get nothing but worse.
Instead of making things worse overseas, why not spend more time tackling terrorist cells within our borders? It is well known that there are hundreds of Al-Qaeda cells worldwide. Why not make a plead of cooperation with other nations to find them, instead of bombing a village where there are potential terrorists, but end up killing more civilians along the way.
Our Middle East policy has done nothing but to provoke radicals even more, and at the same time make more Middle Easterns hold much more hatred against us than they had before.
Think for once about the thousands of children who have been victims and witnesses of the mayhem caused in Iraq. Right there we have tons of kids who hold so much hatred in their hearts that they are very likely to grow up to become terrorists.
Is it justified?... Of course not, but neither was our response by starting a pre-emptive attack on a nation that had nothing to be with 9/11.
Sorry but your post above seems quite blind from reality and significantly ignorant.
We have been in the middle of WWIII since 9/12/2001. Thankfully, we have leaders that, regardless of public opinion, realize what is at stake, and have put us in prime position to be ready for the next step in this war.
Don't kid yourselves, people. The War in Iraq is just a battle in the broader war that is still in its infancy. Take a good look at what is happening.
It is going to be a very, very long time before it gets better. How anyone can not see this is simply mind-blowing.
Also, I have been BOWLED over at the response from the radicals on this, just filling the airways with their rebuking of the suicide bombers-to-be.
Pretty soon, you'll have the New York Times running front page stories about how Britain trampled on the rights of the would be bombers.
Sadly, though, the liberal wing around the world keeps singing the same old song and dance. What will it take for them to remove the blinders?????[/QUOTE]
Let's see what the conservative/right wing has to offer to make the world a better place?... the same as the radical left... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Has Iraq made the world a safer place?... NO
Why is Osama Bin Laden still on the run?... GOD KNOWS WHY!
Are we safer now than since September 11th?... Obviously not, and chances are the things will get nothing but worse.
Instead of making things worse overseas, why not spend more time tackling terrorist cells within our borders? It is well known that there are hundreds of Al-Qaeda cells worldwide. Why not make a plead of cooperation with other nations to find them, instead of bombing a village where there are potential terrorists, but end up killing more civilians along the way.
Our Middle East policy has done nothing but to provoke radicals even more, and at the same time make more Middle Easterns hold much more hatred against us than they had before.
Think for once about the thousands of children who have been victims and witnesses of the mayhem caused in Iraq. Right there we have tons of kids who hold so much hatred in their hearts that they are very likely to grow up to become terrorists.
Is it justified?... Of course not, but neither was our response by starting a pre-emptive attack on a nation that had nothing to be with 9/11.
Sorry but your post above seems quite blind from reality and significantly ignorant.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME]There's a HUGE difference between common accidents and war.
War is absolutely the last resolve to put an end to a conflict. By now we all know that the war in Iraq was completely unjustified. 40,000 civilians lives lost, over 2,000 American soldiers dead, and hundreds of thousands of innocent people injured were not worth taking Saddam Hussein out. Especially when we know now that he was far less the kind of threat that the Bush Admnistration made us believe he was.[/QUOTE]
Well, in real terms it was unjustified. But in situational terms, the fact is that there were some pretty glaring arrows pointing at an imminent threat from Iraq. In truth, there was no imminent threat. With 20/20 hindsight, going to war was obviously a terrible idea. However, at the time, there was intelligence that indicated a threat. There is no evidence to indicate that the administration exaggerated - they just told it as best as they knew it, which led to the current administration and the vast majority of the country's decision to go to war.
You have to consider that a great majority of those who are currently against the war were at one time in support of it. It surprises me how many people blame the current administration for the war when all of them witnessed the almost blatant unanimity that supported the war at the time of its inception.
In conclusion, it was reasonable to start the war; it is now reasonable to conclude that the war was, in fact, completely unnecessary.
I'm not saying that this exonerates the administration. However, I do attack any baseless claims that the administration is somehow a force of evil, that is totally corrupt and amoral. Such accusations simply spew with ignorance, and are founded entirely upon conjectures based on a disagreement in terms of political ideas (for example, that the current administration is Republican, which is apparently the party of pure evil).
War is absolutely the last resolve to put an end to a conflict. By now we all know that the war in Iraq was completely unjustified. 40,000 civilians lives lost, over 2,000 American soldiers dead, and hundreds of thousands of innocent people injured were not worth taking Saddam Hussein out. Especially when we know now that he was far less the kind of threat that the Bush Admnistration made us believe he was.[/QUOTE]
Well, in real terms it was unjustified. But in situational terms, the fact is that there were some pretty glaring arrows pointing at an imminent threat from Iraq. In truth, there was no imminent threat. With 20/20 hindsight, going to war was obviously a terrible idea. However, at the time, there was intelligence that indicated a threat. There is no evidence to indicate that the administration exaggerated - they just told it as best as they knew it, which led to the current administration and the vast majority of the country's decision to go to war.
You have to consider that a great majority of those who are currently against the war were at one time in support of it. It surprises me how many people blame the current administration for the war when all of them witnessed the almost blatant unanimity that supported the war at the time of its inception.
In conclusion, it was reasonable to start the war; it is now reasonable to conclude that the war was, in fact, completely unnecessary.
I'm not saying that this exonerates the administration. However, I do attack any baseless claims that the administration is somehow a force of evil, that is totally corrupt and amoral. Such accusations simply spew with ignorance, and are founded entirely upon conjectures based on a disagreement in terms of political ideas (for example, that the current administration is Republican, which is apparently the party of pure evil).
It's time we employed 'proper' war time measures. If that means searching every detail of every Muslim in the UK so be it.
Of course there wil be complaints about human rights, cost, effort etc but the means justify the ends.
It's time for the population to choose allegiances to their nation or their religion. I don't give a shit if you're a Pakistani or an Eskimo, if you enjoy the benefits of living here, you should put that nation first. If you don't like it fuck off somewhere else and don't come back.
Of course there wil be complaints about human rights, cost, effort etc but the means justify the ends.
It's time for the population to choose allegiances to their nation or their religion. I don't give a shit if you're a Pakistani or an Eskimo, if you enjoy the benefits of living here, you should put that nation first. If you don't like it fuck off somewhere else and don't come back.
Of course the usual apologists will scream 'racism' etc.
Typical tatic of the left, more interested in shouting down the right than offering solutions.
Typical tatic of the left, more interested in shouting down the right than offering solutions.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir Archie Leach wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's time we employed 'proper' war time measures. If that means searching every detail of every Muslim in the UK so be it.
[/QUOTE]
How exactly will you do that? It's not like you can instantly recognise a muslim on the street.
[/QUOTE]
How exactly will you do that? It's not like you can instantly recognise a muslim on the street.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Mr.Jingles wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Haystacks Calhounski wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Take the blinders off, folks.....
We have been in the middle of WWIII since 9/12/2001. Thankfully, we have leaders that, regardless of public opinion, realize what is at stake, and have put us in prime position to be ready for the next step in this war.
Don't kid yourselves, people. The War in Iraq is just a battle in the broader war that is still in its infancy. Take a good look at what is happening.
It is going to be a very, very long time before it gets better. How anyone can not see this is simply mind-blowing.
Also, I have been BOWLED over at the response from the radicals on this, just filling the airways with their rebuking of the suicide bombers-to-be.
Pretty soon, you'll have the New York Times running front page stories about how Britain trampled on the rights of the would be bombers.
Sadly, though, the liberal wing around the world keeps singing the same old song and dance. What will it take for them to remove the blinders?????[/QUOTE]
Let's see what the conservative/right wing has to offer to make the world a better place?... the same as the radical left... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Has Iraq made the world a safer place?... NO
Why is Osama Bin Laden still on the run?... GOD KNOWS WHY!
Are we safer now than since September 11th?... Obviously not, and chances are the things will get nothing but worse.
Instead of making things worse overseas, why not spend more time tackling terrorist cells within our borders? It is well known that there are hundreds of Al-Qaeda cells worldwide. Why not make a plead of cooperation with other nations to find them, instead of bombing a village where there are potential terrorists, but end up killing more civilians along the way.
Our Middle East policy has done nothing but to provoke radicals even more, and at the same time make more Middle Easterns hold much more hatred against us than they had before.
Think for once about the thousands of children who have been victims and witnesses of the mayhem caused in Iraq. Right there we have tons of kids who hold so much hatred in their hearts that they are very likely to grow up to become terrorists.
Is it justified?... Of course not, but neither was our response by starting a pre-emptive attack on a nation that had nothing to be with 9/11.
Sorry but your post above seems quite blind from reality and significantly ignorant.[/QUOTE]
So, in your mind, we are NOT in the middle of WWIII?
I think that is the biggest problem of those on the left, who wish to play partisan politics out of Iraq. Have there been mistakes, sure. You have them in every war. But the constant drumbeat of the radical left, both in this country, and abroad, they DO have the "We Hate Bush" blinderson to the reality of what it happening in the Middle East.
Your blather above is the same blather that the left has been bleating for years now.
We have been in the middle of WWIII since 9/12/2001. Thankfully, we have leaders that, regardless of public opinion, realize what is at stake, and have put us in prime position to be ready for the next step in this war.
Don't kid yourselves, people. The War in Iraq is just a battle in the broader war that is still in its infancy. Take a good look at what is happening.
It is going to be a very, very long time before it gets better. How anyone can not see this is simply mind-blowing.
Also, I have been BOWLED over at the response from the radicals on this, just filling the airways with their rebuking of the suicide bombers-to-be.
Pretty soon, you'll have the New York Times running front page stories about how Britain trampled on the rights of the would be bombers.
Sadly, though, the liberal wing around the world keeps singing the same old song and dance. What will it take for them to remove the blinders?????[/QUOTE]
Let's see what the conservative/right wing has to offer to make the world a better place?... the same as the radical left... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Has Iraq made the world a safer place?... NO
Why is Osama Bin Laden still on the run?... GOD KNOWS WHY!
Are we safer now than since September 11th?... Obviously not, and chances are the things will get nothing but worse.
Instead of making things worse overseas, why not spend more time tackling terrorist cells within our borders? It is well known that there are hundreds of Al-Qaeda cells worldwide. Why not make a plead of cooperation with other nations to find them, instead of bombing a village where there are potential terrorists, but end up killing more civilians along the way.
Our Middle East policy has done nothing but to provoke radicals even more, and at the same time make more Middle Easterns hold much more hatred against us than they had before.
Think for once about the thousands of children who have been victims and witnesses of the mayhem caused in Iraq. Right there we have tons of kids who hold so much hatred in their hearts that they are very likely to grow up to become terrorists.
Is it justified?... Of course not, but neither was our response by starting a pre-emptive attack on a nation that had nothing to be with 9/11.
Sorry but your post above seems quite blind from reality and significantly ignorant.[/QUOTE]
So, in your mind, we are NOT in the middle of WWIII?
I think that is the biggest problem of those on the left, who wish to play partisan politics out of Iraq. Have there been mistakes, sure. You have them in every war. But the constant drumbeat of the radical left, both in this country, and abroad, they DO have the "We Hate Bush" blinderson to the reality of what it happening in the Middle East.
Your blather above is the same blather that the left has been bleating for years now.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Haystacks Calhounski wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
So, in your mind, we are NOT in the middle of WWIII?
I think that is the biggest problem of those on the left, who wish to play partisan politics out of Iraq. Have there been mistakes, sure. You have them in every war. But the constant drumbeat of the radical left, both in this country, and abroad, they DO have the "We Hate Bush" blinderson to the reality of what it happening in the Middle East.
Your blather above is the same blather that the left has been bleating for years now. [/QUOTE]
WWIII? I've been saying no to people who say that because I don't see us (the 'good' guys) at war with a country but with individuals. Maybe it is WWIII after all since it's still all of us against all of them.
The problem is the 'mistakes' that have been made by US and how they strengthen THEM. Those mistakes - I don't agree they were mistakes, btw, but deliberate actions carried out by arrogant leaders - sent those in the middle over to the other side. Those mistakes cost innocent lives. Casualties of war are a fact. Casualties of arrogance and disdain are what leads to more anger. Right now, the anger directed at the west - even from some within the west - is palpable. We are less safe now than we were before. Our country should be strengthened. Our focus should be on our ports and borders.
Our military is stretched thin and their recruiting is way down. When things get tougher, as everyone predicts they will, who will protect us? Who will fight for the country who sent our troops into an unnecessary war? Who will trust us when we say we need to do this when the last time we said it it was a lie? And it was a lie. The world knows that.
Instead of fighting those who planned 9/11 we went into another country whose leader had tortured his people for decades. Those people deserved to be freed from their dictator but not in the way it was done. The reasons for doing it changed weekly - WMD's, proliferation, "this is the man who tried to kill my daddy", humanitarian obligations.
You don't beat bullies by being meaner bullies. You beat them by convincing the majority that this is what needs to be done. You don't use scare tactics but logic. You enlist the aid of friends, you don't insult and threaten them when they voice an opposing view.
The 'Bush blinders' as you call them are not blinders at all but an aid to see things as they really are. And that, sadly, is much worse than they were.
So, in your mind, we are NOT in the middle of WWIII?
I think that is the biggest problem of those on the left, who wish to play partisan politics out of Iraq. Have there been mistakes, sure. You have them in every war. But the constant drumbeat of the radical left, both in this country, and abroad, they DO have the "We Hate Bush" blinderson to the reality of what it happening in the Middle East.
Your blather above is the same blather that the left has been bleating for years now. [/QUOTE]
WWIII? I've been saying no to people who say that because I don't see us (the 'good' guys) at war with a country but with individuals. Maybe it is WWIII after all since it's still all of us against all of them.
The problem is the 'mistakes' that have been made by US and how they strengthen THEM. Those mistakes - I don't agree they were mistakes, btw, but deliberate actions carried out by arrogant leaders - sent those in the middle over to the other side. Those mistakes cost innocent lives. Casualties of war are a fact. Casualties of arrogance and disdain are what leads to more anger. Right now, the anger directed at the west - even from some within the west - is palpable. We are less safe now than we were before. Our country should be strengthened. Our focus should be on our ports and borders.
Our military is stretched thin and their recruiting is way down. When things get tougher, as everyone predicts they will, who will protect us? Who will fight for the country who sent our troops into an unnecessary war? Who will trust us when we say we need to do this when the last time we said it it was a lie? And it was a lie. The world knows that.
Instead of fighting those who planned 9/11 we went into another country whose leader had tortured his people for decades. Those people deserved to be freed from their dictator but not in the way it was done. The reasons for doing it changed weekly - WMD's, proliferation, "this is the man who tried to kill my daddy", humanitarian obligations.
You don't beat bullies by being meaner bullies. You beat them by convincing the majority that this is what needs to be done. You don't use scare tactics but logic. You enlist the aid of friends, you don't insult and threaten them when they voice an opposing view.
The 'Bush blinders' as you call them are not blinders at all but an aid to see things as they really are. And that, sadly, is much worse than they were.
It amazes me to see how many people on this board still link 9-11 to Iraq. If memory serves (and I'm sure it does), 9-11 happend almost 2 years before the invasion of Iraq. To those who say, "Almost all of the people against the war now were for it in the beginning"....you are missing a very important point. Everyone was for the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan. It's when the war was expanded to include Iraq that people started scratching their heads. Granted, the reasons for invading Iraq were cooked up, but we need to remember that WE put Saddam in power in Iraq, because he was supposed to be the "lesser of the two evils" and would keep Iran in check, which he did until we took him out.
You better believe our foreign policies made our country less safe today than it was before, but those policies were made long before Iraq...they are completely unrelated. Bin Laden is in his fifties, and has been spewing hatred at the West since he was in his twenties....that's 30 years at least of screw ups. And BOTH Democrats and Republicans are responsible for those foreign policies. As long as the perception exists in the Arab World that it's "Us against them", we will have to deal with these terrorists. Whether or not it's actually true is a moot point...all that anyone can judge the real world by is their perception of it, so perception is everything.
Once the politicians get that through their heads (on both sides of the partisan divide), maybe they can figure out how to defeat the ideology of terrorism. You don't kill an ideology by killing all of the people in it, as Israel will find out in 10 years. Killing Lebanese Civilians is just making their problem worse, because that's at least one person for every civilian killed who is more suseptible, in their pain, to the "death to the west" brainwashing of the terrorists. Deal with the perception, stamping out the root of the terrorists before it can bloom.
You better believe our foreign policies made our country less safe today than it was before, but those policies were made long before Iraq...they are completely unrelated. Bin Laden is in his fifties, and has been spewing hatred at the West since he was in his twenties....that's 30 years at least of screw ups. And BOTH Democrats and Republicans are responsible for those foreign policies. As long as the perception exists in the Arab World that it's "Us against them", we will have to deal with these terrorists. Whether or not it's actually true is a moot point...all that anyone can judge the real world by is their perception of it, so perception is everything.
Once the politicians get that through their heads (on both sides of the partisan divide), maybe they can figure out how to defeat the ideology of terrorism. You don't kill an ideology by killing all of the people in it, as Israel will find out in 10 years. Killing Lebanese Civilians is just making their problem worse, because that's at least one person for every civilian killed who is more suseptible, in their pain, to the "death to the west" brainwashing of the terrorists. Deal with the perception, stamping out the root of the terrorists before it can bloom.
People did indeed start scratching their heads during the inception of the Iraq war, however, it wasn't until some amount of time into the war that the majority of the country turned around and decided that it was a bad idea.
I'm definitely not saying that the war was a good idea, I am merely pointing out that, instead of making SCAPEGOATS out of Bush and Blair - which is all (both liberals and conservatives) are doing these days - we should rather find a solution to this crisis as it stands right now. To this day I have yet to hear a good idea come from any liberal or conservative.
Many liberals say, "Remove all the troops from Iraq immediately," but that's not necessarily a good idea, and a potentially dangerous one. When this is pointed out to them, all they can respond to is, "Well, we shouldn't have been there in the first place!" Needless to say, this does not help AT ALL.
Conservatives will say, "Let's keep on this war until we find every single terrorist and put them down!" They do not realize that such efforts merely breed more terrorists, and we will therefore NEVER find every single one of them. This simply pushes us further in the wrong direction.
I'm not saying there even is a solution, but I am very certain that NOTHING anyone is saying is helping AT ALL. We need to stop bashing Bush as a SCAPEGOAT, and instead, we have to work together to find a SOLUTION.
I'm definitely not saying that the war was a good idea, I am merely pointing out that, instead of making SCAPEGOATS out of Bush and Blair - which is all (both liberals and conservatives) are doing these days - we should rather find a solution to this crisis as it stands right now. To this day I have yet to hear a good idea come from any liberal or conservative.
Many liberals say, "Remove all the troops from Iraq immediately," but that's not necessarily a good idea, and a potentially dangerous one. When this is pointed out to them, all they can respond to is, "Well, we shouldn't have been there in the first place!" Needless to say, this does not help AT ALL.
Conservatives will say, "Let's keep on this war until we find every single terrorist and put them down!" They do not realize that such efforts merely breed more terrorists, and we will therefore NEVER find every single one of them. This simply pushes us further in the wrong direction.
I'm not saying there even is a solution, but I am very certain that NOTHING anyone is saying is helping AT ALL. We need to stop bashing Bush as a SCAPEGOAT, and instead, we have to work together to find a SOLUTION.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color=666600>Music Man wrote: [/QUOTENAME]People did indeed start scratching their heads during the inception of the Iraq war, however, it wasn't until some amount of time into the war that the majority of the country turned around and decided that it was a bad idea.
I'm definitely not saying that the war was a good idea, I am merely pointing out that, instead of making SCAPEGOATS out of Bush and Blair - which is all (both liberals and conservatives) are doing these days - we should rather find a solution to this crisis as it stands right now. To this day I have yet to hear a good idea come from any liberal or conservative.
Many liberals say, "Remove all the troops from Iraq immediately," but that's not necessarily a good idea, and a potentially dangerous one. When this is pointed out to them, all they can respond to is, "Well, we shouldn't have been there in the first place!" Needless to say, this does not help AT ALL.
Conservatives will say, "Let's keep on this war until we find every single terrorist and put them down!" They do not realize that such efforts merely breed more terrorists, and we will therefore NEVER find every single one of them. This simply pushes us further in the wrong direction.
I'm not saying there even is a solution, but I am very certain that NOTHING anyone is saying is helping AT ALL. We need to stop bashing Bush as a SCAPEGOAT, and instead, we have to work together to find a SOLUTION.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Iraq is simply a battle in the greater WWIII. History will prove that out, as we are in all reality just beginning this struggle.
That is my entire point. I simply cannot understand for the life of me why some don't see the big picture.
I'm definitely not saying that the war was a good idea, I am merely pointing out that, instead of making SCAPEGOATS out of Bush and Blair - which is all (both liberals and conservatives) are doing these days - we should rather find a solution to this crisis as it stands right now. To this day I have yet to hear a good idea come from any liberal or conservative.
Many liberals say, "Remove all the troops from Iraq immediately," but that's not necessarily a good idea, and a potentially dangerous one. When this is pointed out to them, all they can respond to is, "Well, we shouldn't have been there in the first place!" Needless to say, this does not help AT ALL.
Conservatives will say, "Let's keep on this war until we find every single terrorist and put them down!" They do not realize that such efforts merely breed more terrorists, and we will therefore NEVER find every single one of them. This simply pushes us further in the wrong direction.
I'm not saying there even is a solution, but I am very certain that NOTHING anyone is saying is helping AT ALL. We need to stop bashing Bush as a SCAPEGOAT, and instead, we have to work together to find a SOLUTION.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Iraq is simply a battle in the greater WWIII. History will prove that out, as we are in all reality just beginning this struggle.
That is my entire point. I simply cannot understand for the life of me why some don't see the big picture.
I'm all in agreement with you guys. Bush and v Blair are scapegoats, as would be any other person who happend to be in office when all of this went down. That's the beauty of politics. If good stuff happens when you are in office, even if you have nothing to do with it, you get the credit. If bad stuff happens, again, even if you had nothing to do with it, you get the blame. We are in this mess now, and there really isn't a good way to get out of it. Pulling out now wouldn't stop the problem (indeed it would probably make it worse), but keeping at it forever isn't the answer either, as MusicMan pointed out. Like it or not, the mess we created needs to be cleaned up, and I'm guessing it will take a good long time to do that. Good point on the WWIII by the way. Anyone who has ever read George Orwell's book "1984" can definately see the parallels between the events in that book and the War on Terror.