"Jimmy Page is the worst guitar player ever."
I don't think anyone was claiming that he was the best... and if they were, they're full of rocks.
But he ain't the worst. Go look up those guys from Oasis...
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But there's a difference between playing easy things and playing things you just can't play.
Jimmy Page can't play his own songs, and they're easy as shit
Jimmy Page can't play his own songs, and they're easy as shit
If Jimmy's stuff is as easy as learning to ride a bike, then I would say that Brian's stuff is as easy as learning to walk.
But the real point is, how easy or difficult or simple or complex a player's works are has no bearing on whether or not one should like or value it. Some people like Jimmy, some people like Brian, some people - like me - like both of them. And some people don't even like either of them.
As to the topic: When it comes to music, ability is a subjective idea that many people like to pretend can be objectively measured. Music is what sounds good. This can be done with all the scales in the world, or just a few notes. It can be done at lightning fast speeds, or at speeds surpassed by tortoises. Etc.
But the real point is, how easy or difficult or simple or complex a player's works are has no bearing on whether or not one should like or value it. Some people like Jimmy, some people like Brian, some people - like me - like both of them. And some people don't even like either of them.
As to the topic: When it comes to music, ability is a subjective idea that many people like to pretend can be objectively measured. Music is what sounds good. This can be done with all the scales in the world, or just a few notes. It can be done at lightning fast speeds, or at speeds surpassed by tortoises. Etc.
Both! Both fantastic but different. However, if I was judging both of them in their prime I would say both are as good as each other, today I think Brian plays better. I don't think either play as well as they did in the heyday of Queen/Zep but Jimmy's playing has deterioated more(all the high living of the 70s finally catching up with him?).
Anyone who thinks JP is crap however and always has been has no idea. Just accept he's not to your taste and move on. There are people I admire technically but I don't like their music. Just get over it.
Anyone who thinks JP is crap however and always has been has no idea. Just accept he's not to your taste and move on. There are people I admire technically but I don't like their music. Just get over it.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Bob-Plant wrote: [/QUOTENAME]At one time, Jimmy Page was probably the best guitar player alive, even better than Clapton.[/QUOTE]
I hope you're talking exclusively about rock guitarists, because there were country, jazz, and other non-mainstream players who could destroy Page even in his prime. While he was a great player, he was only playing major and pentatonic scales - but creatively. Jazz players of his time (and any time) could play circles around him. Page was a rock player, so he happened to be in the mainstream, which gave him his popularity. Most people don't look beyond the mainstream for quality music, and so they are blinded by the mainstream, and think it contains all the quality music out there. Of course, they're far off the mark, as players like Jeff Beck and Frank Zappa, both of whom were around when Page was at his peak, and were always far better players.
Speed does not equal quality (and Page was often a very sloppy player, even in his best days). That aside, I'll still disagree with Page being even the best rock guitarist. He never could top Hendrix, and by the time Hendrix died, Steve Howe joined Yes, who is a far better player.
[QUOTE]I do feel that Jimmy really stopped getting better as a player by the end of LZ (1980) and both his song writing and actual playing deteriorated as the years have gone by.[/QUOTE]
Page was doing the drugs by 75, and his playing suffered horribly. The good Zeppelin concerts became more and more rare from then onward. His playing was at its peak in 72-73.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I was considering only rock guitarists. One could name better players in specific styles (Clapton/blues, Beck/fusion/ Van Halen/speed, Clarke/jazz etc.), or even players so technically talented (like Steve Howe) but I really can't think of anyone who could do all of them as well as Page, and of course his song writing ability in most cases (ratio of good-to-bad) buries most everybody (our Brian being an exception).
The problem, obviously, is that there is no "best", because it's all so subjective. I would not dispute the general consensus that Hnedrix is "the best", but he is not my favorite. Same thing with bands-the Beatles would have to be the greatest band ever, but there not my favorite, you know?
I hope you're talking exclusively about rock guitarists, because there were country, jazz, and other non-mainstream players who could destroy Page even in his prime. While he was a great player, he was only playing major and pentatonic scales - but creatively. Jazz players of his time (and any time) could play circles around him. Page was a rock player, so he happened to be in the mainstream, which gave him his popularity. Most people don't look beyond the mainstream for quality music, and so they are blinded by the mainstream, and think it contains all the quality music out there. Of course, they're far off the mark, as players like Jeff Beck and Frank Zappa, both of whom were around when Page was at his peak, and were always far better players.
Speed does not equal quality (and Page was often a very sloppy player, even in his best days). That aside, I'll still disagree with Page being even the best rock guitarist. He never could top Hendrix, and by the time Hendrix died, Steve Howe joined Yes, who is a far better player.
[QUOTE]I do feel that Jimmy really stopped getting better as a player by the end of LZ (1980) and both his song writing and actual playing deteriorated as the years have gone by.[/QUOTE]
Page was doing the drugs by 75, and his playing suffered horribly. The good Zeppelin concerts became more and more rare from then onward. His playing was at its peak in 72-73.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I was considering only rock guitarists. One could name better players in specific styles (Clapton/blues, Beck/fusion/ Van Halen/speed, Clarke/jazz etc.), or even players so technically talented (like Steve Howe) but I really can't think of anyone who could do all of them as well as Page, and of course his song writing ability in most cases (ratio of good-to-bad) buries most everybody (our Brian being an exception).
The problem, obviously, is that there is no "best", because it's all so subjective. I would not dispute the general consensus that Hnedrix is "the best", but he is not my favorite. Same thing with bands-the Beatles would have to be the greatest band ever, but there not my favorite, you know?
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]M a t i a s M a y<h6><i>QZ's Rainmaker wrote: [/QUOTENAME]But there's a difference between playing easy things and playing things you just can't play.
Jimmy Page can't play his own songs, and they're easy as shit[/QUOTE]
Why the rancor directed at Page? You don't have to like him or Zeppelin, but it seems almost personal...
Jimmy Page can't play his own songs, and they're easy as shit[/QUOTE]
Why the rancor directed at Page? You don't have to like him or Zeppelin, but it seems almost personal...
I just don't like when a poor musician is considered to be a musical genious.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]M a t i a s M a y<h6><i>QZ's Rainmaker wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I just don't like when a poor musician is considered to be a musical genious.[/QUOTE]
Understandable, I guess, if that's the way you feel. Though I really like Zeppelin, I'll be the first to admit that the one criticism that can not be argued with is that he is a "sloppy" player. I still like him though.
Understandable, I guess, if that's the way you feel. Though I really like Zeppelin, I'll be the first to admit that the one criticism that can not be argued with is that he is a "sloppy" player. I still like him though.
I was talking about rock guitarists myself. The best guitarist I ever heard was Jimi Hendrix but other styles had great guitar players too. Robert Johnson was a great blues guitar player as was B B King. Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson were geat country guitar players. The list is endless.
MatiaMay think he are sooo good to insult great Jimmy Page but MatiasMay not so good on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qXY50Ml8Y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qXY50Ml8Y0
no, I don't think I'm so good
I think HE is NOT good
which is different
:)
BTW, Led Zep has one hell of a drummer, an awesome singer and an excellent bass player, but Page sucks.
I think HE is NOT good
which is different
:)
BTW, Led Zep has one hell of a drummer, an awesome singer and an excellent bass player, but Page sucks.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]M a t i a s M a y<h6><i>QZ's Rainmaker wrote: [/QUOTENAME]no, I don't think I'm so good
I think HE is NOT good
which is different
:)
BTW, Led Zep has one hell of a drummer, an awesome singer and an excellent bass player, but Page sucks.[/QUOTE]
John Bonham = God. lol =P
I think HE is NOT good
which is different
:)
BTW, Led Zep has one hell of a drummer, an awesome singer and an excellent bass player, but Page sucks.[/QUOTE]
John Bonham = God. lol =P
I can't elaborate enough on how many arguments I've had with people over this. Okay...Page had an influence on Brian...but mind you he was just an influence. Page is one of the all-time great riff writers, but even in his prime he was never better than Brian May. Jimmy Page in my opinion was a damn good guitarist...but, as other people have already stated; the drugs killed his songwriting and playing ability. I've never been that big of a Jimmy Page fan...because I've heard a lot of very similar riffs played by old bluesmen like Son House, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Robert Johnson, etc...his style was unique however because he fused british blues and rock 'n roll with middle eastern modes. None of his stuff was ever all that complex. Brian May's stuff on the other hand...listen to Good Company, Brighton Rock, and the Prophet's Song, and at least another 6 or 7 songs; and clearly Brian again puts Jimmy to shame. I like Jimmy Page's style and playing...however I feel he is so grossly overrated for his musicianship. People are stupid enough to confuse a guitarist's influence with their talent. The two greatest talents in Led Zeppelin were John Bonham and John Paul Jones. Jimmy Page and Robert Plant comprise one of the greatest songwriting teams of all time, but that doesn't automatically dub them the most talented people in the group. When it comes to really saying who the better guitarist is...or even getting bigger than that and comparing Zeppelin to Queen; its like comparing apples and oranges. Its impossible and an absolute waste of time to compare the two.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]redspecial85 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I can't elaborate enough on how many arguments I've had with people over this. Okay...Page had an influence on Brian...but mind you he was just an influence. Page is one of the all-time great riff writers, but even in his prime he was never better than Brian May. Jimmy Page in my opinion was a damn good guitarist...but, as other people have already stated; the drugs killed his songwriting and playing ability. I've never been that big of a Jimmy Page fan...because I've heard a lot of very similar riffs played by old bluesmen like Son House, Blind Lemon Jefferson, Robert Johnson, etc...his style was unique however because he fused british blues and rock 'n roll with middle eastern modes. None of his stuff was ever all that complex. Brian May's stuff on the other hand...listen to Good Company, Brighton Rock, and the Prophet's Song, and at least another 6 or 7 songs; and clearly Brian again puts Jimmy to shame. I like Jimmy Page's style and playing...however I feel he is so grossly overrated for his musicianship. People are stupid enough to confuse a guitarist's influence with their talent. The two greatest talents in Led Zeppelin were John Bonham and John Paul Jones. Jimmy Page and Robert Plant comprise one of the greatest songwriting teams of all time, but that doesn't automatically dub them the most talented people in the group. When it comes to really saying who the better guitarist is...or even getting bigger than that and comparing Zeppelin to Queen; its like comparing apples and oranges. Its impossible and an absolute waste of time to compare the two.[/QUOTE]
THANK YOU! :D ^ Heck yes. Agreed. Agreed. And AGREED.
THANK YOU! :D ^ Heck yes. Agreed. Agreed. And AGREED.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]M a t i a s M a y<h6><i>QZ's Rainmaker wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I just don't like when a poor musician is considered to be a musical genious.[/QUOTE]
Ah so you're BITTER!
I get that feeling a lot looking at some of the people who rake in musical accolades these days... but one would do best to let it go.
After all, no one said 'genius' came with doing difficult things. I reckon Achilles Last Stand was a piece of genius - I don't know who wrote the guitar parts, but they were executed well enough. Not too showy, not too fast - just... done well.
Ah so you're BITTER!
I get that feeling a lot looking at some of the people who rake in musical accolades these days... but one would do best to let it go.
After all, no one said 'genius' came with doing difficult things. I reckon Achilles Last Stand was a piece of genius - I don't know who wrote the guitar parts, but they were executed well enough. Not too showy, not too fast - just... done well.