[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sparrow wrote: [/QUOTENAME]from what i understand the definition of a 'virgin' back in the day usually referred to someone who was 'not married yet' and not nessesarily saying that someone hasnt had sex yet[/QUOTE]
Actually, the focus on Mary's virginity came from a mistranslation. In the late first century, the gospel writers were using a Greek translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. At the time it was written, the Greek word "parthenos" meant "young woman", but over time, it evolved to mean "virgin". Anyone who has studied ancient Greek knows that... as long as they don't let their traditional beliefs hinder their work. And that's the problem... you'll have a tough time finding someone who can properly translate ancient Greek for this reason. Most books will report that "parthenos" means "virgin", but they will omit that it originally meant "young woman". Even most of the scholars are trying to protect what's left of Christianity.
[QUOTE]im going to hell...anyway...[/QUOTE]
Only if you believe it exists... which it doesn't. Christianity invented the idea of hell. Read the history books... it didn't "exist" before.
And Thomas... thanks for the links on "Gnostic John". Fascinating stuff.
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i was joking about the hell thing, since i made a joke about mary and god. i really dont believe that exists either. if anything, limbo would be hell IMO. i dont truly believe in living in some fiery inferno for eternity or any of that.
but thats interesting about the mistranslation, i never knew that. so i guess i was sorta close? :p
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sparrow wrote: [/QUOTENAME]but thats interesting about the mistranslation, i never knew that. so i guess i was sorta close? :p[/QUOTE]
Sure thing, boss... I'll give you two points.
Sure thing, boss... I'll give you two points.
Oh, Bob, Hell did exist before Christianity.
In fact, it was named after a Norse goddess 'Hel' (who was a daughter of Loki, and therefore not really a god, as Loki himself was a descendant from the Giants, but was allowed to reside in Asgaard anyway, and for some reason equal in status to the Gods, a weird, long story). There is no doubt that she ruled something that was a true hell, as Nivlgard existed of cold, poisonous myst. There is, however, quite a lot of doubt as to who actually went there.
Also, Judaïsm (though originally devoid of any sort of afterlife) mentions 'hades' several times in what we call the Old Testament.
Then there were the ancient Greeks, who had three sections in the afterlife: Elysion, where the heroes resided (heaven), Tartaros, where the wicked were punished, and some weird meadow ruled by Hypnos and Thanatos where the rest of 'em flew around as some kind of bats for all of eternity.
In fact, it was named after a Norse goddess 'Hel' (who was a daughter of Loki, and therefore not really a god, as Loki himself was a descendant from the Giants, but was allowed to reside in Asgaard anyway, and for some reason equal in status to the Gods, a weird, long story). There is no doubt that she ruled something that was a true hell, as Nivlgard existed of cold, poisonous myst. There is, however, quite a lot of doubt as to who actually went there.
Also, Judaïsm (though originally devoid of any sort of afterlife) mentions 'hades' several times in what we call the Old Testament.
Then there were the ancient Greeks, who had three sections in the afterlife: Elysion, where the heroes resided (heaven), Tartaros, where the wicked were punished, and some weird meadow ruled by Hypnos and Thanatos where the rest of 'em flew around as some kind of bats for all of eternity.
bah. how come this thread won't die...?
okay. wrong question to ask when this forum is filled with people against christianity so, nevermind.
okay. wrong question to ask when this forum is filled with people against christianity so, nevermind.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="indigo"><b>friedchicken \m/ wrote: [/QUOTENAME]bah. how come this thread won't die...?
okay. wrong question to ask when this forum is filled with people against christianity so, nevermind.[/QUOTE]
Are you really so damn stupid?
A sensible debate is not anti-Christian. Anti-CLERICAL perhaps, yes, but then again, all sensible folks are anti-clerical.
okay. wrong question to ask when this forum is filled with people against christianity so, nevermind.[/QUOTE]
Are you really so damn stupid?
A sensible debate is not anti-Christian. Anti-CLERICAL perhaps, yes, but then again, all sensible folks are anti-clerical.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Oh, Bob, Hell did exist before Christianity.
In fact, it was named after a Norse goddess 'Hel' (who was a daughter of Loki, and therefore not really a god, as Loki himself was a descendant from the Giants, but was allowed to reside in Asgaard anyway, and for some reason equal in status to the Gods, a weird, long story). There is no doubt that she ruled something that was a true hell, as Nivlgard existed of cold, poisonous myst. There is, however, quite a lot of doubt as to who actually went there.
Also, Judaïsm (though originally devoid of any sort of afterlife) mentions 'hades' several times in what we call the Old Testament.
Then there were the ancient Greeks, who had three sections in the afterlife: Elysion, where the heroes resided (heaven), Tartaros, where the wicked were punished, and some weird meadow ruled by Hypnos and Thanatos where the rest of 'em flew around as some kind of bats for all of eternity.[/QUOTE]
Again, fascinating stuff. The bottom line is, there's almost always a way to explain how ancient theories and fables came to be. Wherever there's a student, there's a teacher. It still astonishes me how most people (even many very intelligent people) are so uncritical of their spiritual heritage and just believe what's conventionally told. Most people just don't know how to balance the weakness and crutch of their beliefs with new information.
In fact, it was named after a Norse goddess 'Hel' (who was a daughter of Loki, and therefore not really a god, as Loki himself was a descendant from the Giants, but was allowed to reside in Asgaard anyway, and for some reason equal in status to the Gods, a weird, long story). There is no doubt that she ruled something that was a true hell, as Nivlgard existed of cold, poisonous myst. There is, however, quite a lot of doubt as to who actually went there.
Also, Judaïsm (though originally devoid of any sort of afterlife) mentions 'hades' several times in what we call the Old Testament.
Then there were the ancient Greeks, who had three sections in the afterlife: Elysion, where the heroes resided (heaven), Tartaros, where the wicked were punished, and some weird meadow ruled by Hypnos and Thanatos where the rest of 'em flew around as some kind of bats for all of eternity.[/QUOTE]
Again, fascinating stuff. The bottom line is, there's almost always a way to explain how ancient theories and fables came to be. Wherever there's a student, there's a teacher. It still astonishes me how most people (even many very intelligent people) are so uncritical of their spiritual heritage and just believe what's conventionally told. Most people just don't know how to balance the weakness and crutch of their beliefs with new information.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color="indigo"><b>friedchicken \m/ wrote: [/QUOTENAME]bah. how come this thread won't die...?
okay. wrong question to ask when this forum is filled with people against christianity so, nevermind.[/QUOTE]
Are you really so damn stupid?
[/QUOTE]
i'm sorry. please don't be too hostile... sheesh.
okay. wrong question to ask when this forum is filled with people against christianity so, nevermind.[/QUOTE]
Are you really so damn stupid?
[/QUOTE]
i'm sorry. please don't be too hostile... sheesh.
Take it from me, 'Hell' as an idea would've existed as long as we have.
I'm not a parent, I'm just an uncle, but it's a lot easier to control people when you have something threatening like ghosts/hell/etcetera on your side. So I'm sure it would've been invented rather early on, to control primitive people who'd go for any old guff.
I'm not a parent, I'm just an uncle, but it's a lot easier to control people when you have something threatening like ghosts/hell/etcetera on your side. So I'm sure it would've been invented rather early on, to control primitive people who'd go for any old guff.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Take it from me, 'Hell' as an idea would've existed as long as we have.
I'm not a parent, I'm just an uncle, but it's a lot easier to control people when you have something threatening like ghosts/hell/etcetera on your side. So I'm sure it would've been invented rather early on, to control primitive people who'd go for any old guff.
[/QUOTE]
'Afterlife' as a human invention (since we don't *know* whether it actually is there, it is a human invention) is a very fine example of law-management. It has the added benefit that you do not need violence (or the threat of it) to maintain yourself, thus enabling a relatively low-cost way of keeping the order.
I'm not a parent, I'm just an uncle, but it's a lot easier to control people when you have something threatening like ghosts/hell/etcetera on your side. So I'm sure it would've been invented rather early on, to control primitive people who'd go for any old guff.
[/QUOTE]
'Afterlife' as a human invention (since we don't *know* whether it actually is there, it is a human invention) is a very fine example of law-management. It has the added benefit that you do not need violence (or the threat of it) to maintain yourself, thus enabling a relatively low-cost way of keeping the order.
You are dissing Jesus and offending Christians, showing Christ zero respect... which makes you cool as hell in my book. Who knows what Jesus was or wasn't, but Freddie is at the very least a musical messiah. For me, belief in a higher power doesn't come from a fisherman turned prophet/messiahm an instrument of goodwill twisted and perverted into a multitude of religious factions who have killed through acts of war more numbers in Jesus's name than in any other being in history. However, Freddie and his band's music have caused no death, and in it's beauty I see a reason to believe in something grand beyond this world, or else how could such beauty just randomly exist?
In short, I applaude anyone willing to bash religion, humanity's worst disease.
In short, I applaude anyone willing to bash religion, humanity's worst disease.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Zebonka12 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Take it from me, 'Hell' as an idea would've existed as long as we have.
I'm not a parent, I'm just an uncle, but it's a lot easier to control people when you have something threatening like ghosts/hell/etcetera on your side. So I'm sure it would've been invented rather early on, to control primitive people who'd go for any old guff.[/QUOTE]
When you put it in that perspective, we haven't really advanced at all in 2000 years. Sure, we are more technologically able, but as long as we still think one invisible man in the sky is better than another, we are no better than our ancient ancestors. Very little around us is going to improve on a grand scale until this idea dies, because at the moment, very few people are willing to give up their traditions no matter what peace it would bring.
I'm not a parent, I'm just an uncle, but it's a lot easier to control people when you have something threatening like ghosts/hell/etcetera on your side. So I'm sure it would've been invented rather early on, to control primitive people who'd go for any old guff.[/QUOTE]
When you put it in that perspective, we haven't really advanced at all in 2000 years. Sure, we are more technologically able, but as long as we still think one invisible man in the sky is better than another, we are no better than our ancient ancestors. Very little around us is going to improve on a grand scale until this idea dies, because at the moment, very few people are willing to give up their traditions no matter what peace it would bring.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Very little around us is going to improve on a grand scale until this idea dies, because at the moment, very few people are willing to give up their traditions no matter what peace it would bring.
[/QUOTE]
Too many people feel the only way peace can come about is if everyone else believes in their god. They will never see THEIR religion as being the cause of grief or anger. It's always the fault of other religions or of the non-believers. Someone right here in this thread said something to that very effect - that the problems with his country (the USA, I believe) are such because people have turned away from "god". As long as there are extreme and warped perceptions such as that, peace will forever be out of our reach.
Very little around us is going to improve on a grand scale until this idea dies, because at the moment, very few people are willing to give up their traditions no matter what peace it would bring.
[/QUOTE]
Too many people feel the only way peace can come about is if everyone else believes in their god. They will never see THEIR religion as being the cause of grief or anger. It's always the fault of other religions or of the non-believers. Someone right here in this thread said something to that very effect - that the problems with his country (the USA, I believe) are such because people have turned away from "god". As long as there are extreme and warped perceptions such as that, peace will forever be out of our reach.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sir GH<br><h6>ah yeah</h6> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Very little around us is going to improve on a grand scale until this idea dies, because at the moment, very few people are willing to give up their traditions no matter what peace it would bring.
[/QUOTE]
Too many people feel the only way peace can come about is if everyone else believes in their god. They will never see THEIR religion as being the cause of grief or anger. It's always the fault of other religions or of the non-believers. Someone right here in this thread said something to that very effect - that the problems with his country (the USA, I believe) are such because people have turned away from "god". As long as there are extreme and warped perceptions such as that, peace will forever be out of our reach.
[/QUOTE]
Ahhhh.......So what will it take to bring peace?
Very little around us is going to improve on a grand scale until this idea dies, because at the moment, very few people are willing to give up their traditions no matter what peace it would bring.
[/QUOTE]
Too many people feel the only way peace can come about is if everyone else believes in their god. They will never see THEIR religion as being the cause of grief or anger. It's always the fault of other religions or of the non-believers. Someone right here in this thread said something to that very effect - that the problems with his country (the USA, I believe) are such because people have turned away from "god". As long as there are extreme and warped perceptions such as that, peace will forever be out of our reach.
[/QUOTE]
Ahhhh.......So what will it take to bring peace?
Religion don't kill man... Man with religion kill man.