I guess the reason Queen II seems prog to me is because Side Black could qualify as a loose concept album.
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In a nutshell, a Hard Rock band who liked to experiment. Some of the 80'S stuff was pop pap I'm sorry to say!
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]goinback wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I guess the reason Queen II seems prog to me is because Side Black could qualify as a loose concept album.[/QUOTE]
Just because songs segue into each other doesn't make it concept.
A concept album has an overall theme (or story) and recurring musical patterns. Queen II isn't a concept album. Not even the black side.
Also Sgt Peppers isn't a concept album. Listen to stuff like "Tommy" or "The lamb lies down on Broadway"
Just because songs segue into each other doesn't make it concept.
A concept album has an overall theme (or story) and recurring musical patterns. Queen II isn't a concept album. Not even the black side.
Also Sgt Peppers isn't a concept album. Listen to stuff like "Tommy" or "The lamb lies down on Broadway"
Es Lammeth Liegeth Neer Op Den Breede Weghe _O_
Oh man _O_
Wat een helden die Pim & Niek :D
Wat een helden die Pim & Niek :D
> A concept album has an overall theme (or story) and recurring musical patterns
Actually, according to that, 'II' is indeed a concept album. The theme is represented by black and white sides, and the recurring musical patterns can be found too: 'Procession' takes some lines off 'Father to Son' and re-arranges them (Brian would use the same trick for 'Races Overture' and 'White Man'), 'Black Queen' foreshadows the motif from 'Funny' (during the climax). Certain details such as "rule with my left hand" bit in 'Black Queen' and the harpsichord solo in 'Masterstroke' being mostly done over one same chord ("i" function in both cases) is a cross-reference as well.
So, in that matter, 'Queen II' is just as conceptual as 'Dark Side of the Moon' (they both even begin with a heartbeat-like fade in). Same for 'Sgt Pepper' (reprising the title theme, introducing all those sorts of characters).
But still, being "concept" (which is, as you can see, an entirely arbitrary connotation) doesn't mean it's "progressive". Queen had less than 10 songs (out of 150+) which could be loosely classified as "prog-rock", so it's incorrect to pigeonhole them as a progressive band.
Likewise, the fact they did 30 seconds of opera in 'Bo Rhap' and a minute in the 'Lap' intro doesn't mean they mixed opera-rock: the remaining 99% of their catalogue doesn't fit into that category (98% if you count 'The Kiss' as opera influenced, which I do not).
Actually, according to that, 'II' is indeed a concept album. The theme is represented by black and white sides, and the recurring musical patterns can be found too: 'Procession' takes some lines off 'Father to Son' and re-arranges them (Brian would use the same trick for 'Races Overture' and 'White Man'), 'Black Queen' foreshadows the motif from 'Funny' (during the climax). Certain details such as "rule with my left hand" bit in 'Black Queen' and the harpsichord solo in 'Masterstroke' being mostly done over one same chord ("i" function in both cases) is a cross-reference as well.
So, in that matter, 'Queen II' is just as conceptual as 'Dark Side of the Moon' (they both even begin with a heartbeat-like fade in). Same for 'Sgt Pepper' (reprising the title theme, introducing all those sorts of characters).
But still, being "concept" (which is, as you can see, an entirely arbitrary connotation) doesn't mean it's "progressive". Queen had less than 10 songs (out of 150+) which could be loosely classified as "prog-rock", so it's incorrect to pigeonhole them as a progressive band.
Likewise, the fact they did 30 seconds of opera in 'Bo Rhap' and a minute in the 'Lap' intro doesn't mean they mixed opera-rock: the remaining 99% of their catalogue doesn't fit into that category (98% if you count 'The Kiss' as opera influenced, which I do not).
I've always counted "Made In Heaven" as a concept album. The theme(s) being: the beginning and the end of life; the joys and sorrows of love; the infinite beauty and the infinite sadness of the world etc.
In that respect it's very much like "Queen II" in that it jumps from black to white from one song to the next.
V.
In that respect it's very much like "Queen II" in that it jumps from black to white from one song to the next.
V.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Certain details such as "rule with my left hand" bit in 'Black Queen' and the harpsichord solo in 'Masterstroke' being mostly done over one same chord ("i" function in both cases) is a cross-reference as well.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget that Father to Son and Funny How Love Is both start with an F.
Don't forget that Father to Son and Funny How Love Is both start with an F.
Indeed.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Queen had less than 10 songs (out of 150+) which could be loosely classified as "prog-rock", so it's incorrect to pigeonhole them as a progressive band.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but so is pigeonholing them in other genres as well. Certain aspects of Queen's music does clearly belong to the progressive movement, certain aspects don't.
Actually, I started writing a thesis (or paper, don't really know the technical terminology in English; "C-uppsats" in Swedish) about Queen's music, where I argued that Queen, in many ways, weren't "art rock" (where they've been placed many times).
[QUOTE]Likewise, the fact they did 30 seconds of opera in 'Bo Rhap' and a minute in the 'Lap' intro doesn't mean they mixed opera-rock: the remaining 99% of their catalogue doesn't fit into that category (98% if you count 'The Kiss' as opera influenced, which I do not).[/QUOTE]
Don't forget the 'Pagliacci' quote in 'Breakthrough' and the Wagner quotation in 'The Wedding March'. And the Barcelona album certainly qualifies as "opera/rock" (whatever that is).
Yes, but so is pigeonholing them in other genres as well. Certain aspects of Queen's music does clearly belong to the progressive movement, certain aspects don't.
Actually, I started writing a thesis (or paper, don't really know the technical terminology in English; "C-uppsats" in Swedish) about Queen's music, where I argued that Queen, in many ways, weren't "art rock" (where they've been placed many times).
[QUOTE]Likewise, the fact they did 30 seconds of opera in 'Bo Rhap' and a minute in the 'Lap' intro doesn't mean they mixed opera-rock: the remaining 99% of their catalogue doesn't fit into that category (98% if you count 'The Kiss' as opera influenced, which I do not).[/QUOTE]
Don't forget the 'Pagliacci' quote in 'Breakthrough' and the Wagner quotation in 'The Wedding March'. And the Barcelona album certainly qualifies as "opera/rock" (whatever that is).
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<b><font color = "crimson"> ThomasQuinn wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]QueenMercury46 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Queen cannot be categorized as one kind of genre. This subject has been discussed many times.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=FF0033 face=symbol>Freddie wrote: [/QUOTENAME]There is no doubt in my mind that Queen were in a class of their own. [/QUOTE]
Oi! You two! Get your stepford heads out of your asses and read the question. This is not about quality, this is not about superceding genres, it is quite simply a question as to whether to file Queen under "prog rock" or whatever.[/QUOTE]
Best post of the thread.
Simple answer: Yes they were, for a brief while. Queen II is as close as they got to prog, but by Sheer Heart Attack, they combined their early sound with a pop sensibility... then found their niche by ANATO.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=FF0033 face=symbol>Freddie wrote: [/QUOTENAME]There is no doubt in my mind that Queen were in a class of their own. [/QUOTE]
Oi! You two! Get your stepford heads out of your asses and read the question. This is not about quality, this is not about superceding genres, it is quite simply a question as to whether to file Queen under "prog rock" or whatever.[/QUOTE]
Best post of the thread.
Simple answer: Yes they were, for a brief while. Queen II is as close as they got to prog, but by Sheer Heart Attack, they combined their early sound with a pop sensibility... then found their niche by ANATO.
" Certain details such as "rule with my left hand" bit in 'Black Queen' and the harpsichord solo in 'Masterstroke' being mostly done over one same chord ("i" function in both cases) is a cross-reference as well."
If the same chord progressions would mean it's a concept album then most of the early Rock 'n Roll albums would be concept.
I don't think a Black and a White side is a concept. It's just the same as A / B but named different.
There are some things that indeed come close to being concept. Like the Procession/Father to Son bit you mentioned. But other than that I can't think of anything else.
A real concept album has a recurring theme. And a recurring theme isn't just a few notes appearing in the next song (like that 'father to father to son' bit in Procession)
If the same chord progressions would mean it's a concept album then most of the early Rock 'n Roll albums would be concept.
I don't think a Black and a White side is a concept. It's just the same as A / B but named different.
There are some things that indeed come close to being concept. Like the Procession/Father to Son bit you mentioned. But other than that I can't think of anything else.
A real concept album has a recurring theme. And a recurring theme isn't just a few notes appearing in the next song (like that 'father to father to son' bit in Procession)
If so, then 'Dark Side' isn't a concept album either (reprising 'Breathe' isn't enough IMO).
Anyway, as I said, the label is subjective: you could interpret 'Opera', for instance, as having a recurring theme: a person who wants revenge ('Two Legs') and eventually executes it ('Bo Rhap'), enjoys driving, biking... is in love with his best friend, a sweet lady who's the love of his life, but after killing a man and listening to a mad man he's got to go join the brave men who went to look for resources somewhere else, and when he comes back his lovely girl has died already. And the order could mean the timeline swerves from present to past (for instance, when he went back at the end of '39 he realises his wife grew old died, so half an hour later he remembers that in 'Love Of My Life' he'd promised her to come back when he grew older he'd be there at her side to remind her how he still loved her).
Well, you get the picture: you can find any sort of meaning you want there. It's as ambiguous and vague as the idea of 'Dark Side' being about problems of modern life or whatever. Plus there are things in 'Opera' (and 'Races') you could read as recurring themes, either lyrical or musical.
Same for 'Jazz' (interpreting the title as "random", not as the genre per se), 'Works', 'Miracle' or 'Innuendo', and of course 'Made in Heaven' as it's been said here. All in all whether the albums are concept or not depends on the way a particular person wants to receive the message (if any).
The error is (IMO) in those people who kneel and worship any self-called concept album just for the sake of it.
Anyway, as I said, the label is subjective: you could interpret 'Opera', for instance, as having a recurring theme: a person who wants revenge ('Two Legs') and eventually executes it ('Bo Rhap'), enjoys driving, biking... is in love with his best friend, a sweet lady who's the love of his life, but after killing a man and listening to a mad man he's got to go join the brave men who went to look for resources somewhere else, and when he comes back his lovely girl has died already. And the order could mean the timeline swerves from present to past (for instance, when he went back at the end of '39 he realises his wife grew old died, so half an hour later he remembers that in 'Love Of My Life' he'd promised her to come back when he grew older he'd be there at her side to remind her how he still loved her).
Well, you get the picture: you can find any sort of meaning you want there. It's as ambiguous and vague as the idea of 'Dark Side' being about problems of modern life or whatever. Plus there are things in 'Opera' (and 'Races') you could read as recurring themes, either lyrical or musical.
Same for 'Jazz' (interpreting the title as "random", not as the genre per se), 'Works', 'Miracle' or 'Innuendo', and of course 'Made in Heaven' as it's been said here. All in all whether the albums are concept or not depends on the way a particular person wants to receive the message (if any).
The error is (IMO) in those people who kneel and worship any self-called concept album just for the sake of it.
It's not really that vague. Compare so called concept albums (I don't know Dark Side of the Moon very well since I only like the first couple of Pink Floyd albums) but real concept albums have a story to it. Like Tommy (The Who).
It's very clear that it has an overall theme to it, musically and storywise. And not something you have to have a huge imagination for, like your example with A Night at the Opera. Cause that way you can find a bigger picture to all the songs every written. And you can even make a concept of all the bands put together if you would have enough spare time.
There aren't really rules when something is a concept album or not, but it's very obvious that Queen never did one. Although some songs come close
It's very clear that it has an overall theme to it, musically and storywise. And not something you have to have a huge imagination for, like your example with A Night at the Opera. Cause that way you can find a bigger picture to all the songs every written. And you can even make a concept of all the bands put together if you would have enough spare time.
There aren't really rules when something is a concept album or not, but it's very obvious that Queen never did one. Although some songs come close
Stretching things a bit, thematically there's no consistency to the white and black sides to Queen II. If white were "goodness and light", and black were "darkness and evil", then you could say there was a concept. But Loser in the End isn't really fitting for side white, and Funny how love is isn't fitting for side black, so that theory goes to hell quickly. Or side white could be the "reality" side, black "fantasy", but again, a few songs don't fit that. I think it was strictly a device to separate the sides. If it were side A and side B, I doubt that any one would refer to it as a concept album.