How about we begin by having a consensus of the definition of a concept album... ?
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]If so, then 'Dark Side' isn't a concept album either (reprising 'Breathe' isn't enough IMO).
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As far as I know Dark Side of the Moon was developed as one piece. Queen II wasn't: White Queen was from 1968, Seven Seas of Rhye had already appeared (in a different version) on the first album etc.
Besides that - Dark Side has more elements that make it a concept album. The talking in between tracks. The starting and ending with a heartbeat. An overall theme, quoting from Wikipedia:
"The Dark Side of the Moon deals conceptually with the pressures of modern life that can drive normal human beings to insanity: materialism, the increased pace of life and travel, the encroachment of old age and death, and the inhumanities of society and armed conflict. These themes are not just delivered by words but are suggested with the sounds of the album."
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As far as I know Dark Side of the Moon was developed as one piece. Queen II wasn't: White Queen was from 1968, Seven Seas of Rhye had already appeared (in a different version) on the first album etc.
Besides that - Dark Side has more elements that make it a concept album. The talking in between tracks. The starting and ending with a heartbeat. An overall theme, quoting from Wikipedia:
"The Dark Side of the Moon deals conceptually with the pressures of modern life that can drive normal human beings to insanity: materialism, the increased pace of life and travel, the encroachment of old age and death, and the inhumanities of society and armed conflict. These themes are not just delivered by words but are suggested with the sounds of the album."
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Pim Derks wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]If so, then 'Dark Side' isn't a concept album either (reprising 'Breathe' isn't enough IMO).
[/QUOTE]
As far as I know Dark Side of the Moon was developed as one piece. Queen II wasn't: White Queen was from 1968, Seven Seas of Rhye had already appeared (in a different version) on the first album etc.[/QUOTE]
'Us and Them' also comes from long before. And then again, it's entirely arbitrary to put the entire project into one single concept. 'Tommy' is indeed much more cohesive (as well as musicals, 'Chess', for instance), but 'Dark Side' isn't actually more "concept" than 'Pepper' or even 'II'. Brian's solo albums could be considered "concept" depending on how we interpret them.
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As far as I know Dark Side of the Moon was developed as one piece. Queen II wasn't: White Queen was from 1968, Seven Seas of Rhye had already appeared (in a different version) on the first album etc.[/QUOTE]
'Us and Them' also comes from long before. And then again, it's entirely arbitrary to put the entire project into one single concept. 'Tommy' is indeed much more cohesive (as well as musicals, 'Chess', for instance), but 'Dark Side' isn't actually more "concept" than 'Pepper' or even 'II'. Brian's solo albums could be considered "concept" depending on how we interpret them.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Pim Derks wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]If so, then 'Dark Side' isn't a concept album either (reprising 'Breathe' isn't enough IMO).
[/QUOTE]
As far as I know Dark Side of the Moon was developed as one piece. Queen II wasn't: White Queen was from 1968, Seven Seas of Rhye had already appeared (in a different version) on the first album etc.[/QUOTE]
'Us and Them' also comes from long before. And then again, it's entirely arbitrary to put the entire project into one single concept. 'Tommy' is indeed much more cohesive (as well as musicals, 'Chess', for instance), but 'Dark Side' isn't actually more "concept" than 'Pepper' or even 'II'. Brian's solo albums could be considered "concept" depending on how we interpret them.[/QUOTE]
Nevertheless, even though Pink Floyd didn't invent the concept album genre, they certainly perfected it with "The Wall". That's probably the quintessential concept album and to my mind all other concept albums should be compared to it.
V.
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As far as I know Dark Side of the Moon was developed as one piece. Queen II wasn't: White Queen was from 1968, Seven Seas of Rhye had already appeared (in a different version) on the first album etc.[/QUOTE]
'Us and Them' also comes from long before. And then again, it's entirely arbitrary to put the entire project into one single concept. 'Tommy' is indeed much more cohesive (as well as musicals, 'Chess', for instance), but 'Dark Side' isn't actually more "concept" than 'Pepper' or even 'II'. Brian's solo albums could be considered "concept" depending on how we interpret them.[/QUOTE]
Nevertheless, even though Pink Floyd didn't invent the concept album genre, they certainly perfected it with "The Wall". That's probably the quintessential concept album and to my mind all other concept albums should be compared to it.
V.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's not really that vague. Compare so called concept albums (I don't know Dark Side of the Moon very well since I only like the first couple of Pink Floyd albums) but real concept albums have a story to it. Like Tommy (The Who).[/QUOTE]
Tommy is not a concept album, it's a rock opera. If you define Tommy as a concept album, then the original cast recording of, say, "Whistle Down the Wind" is too.
Tommy is not a concept album, it's a rock opera. If you define Tommy as a concept album, then the original cast recording of, say, "Whistle Down the Wind" is too.
I think the first 5 Beatles albums were concept albums, since all the songs are about love
Also all the Scorpions albums are concept, cause all the songs on there suck in the same way
Also all the Scorpions albums are concept, cause all the songs on there suck in the same way
Don't forget that ACDC's entire catalogue is concept too: it's all the same bloody song over and over again ;)
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Danne wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]FriedChicken<br><font size=1>The Almighty</font> wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's not really that vague. Compare so called concept albums (I don't know Dark Side of the Moon very well since I only like the first couple of Pink Floyd albums) but real concept albums have a story to it. Like Tommy (The Who).[/QUOTE]
Tommy is not a concept album, it's a rock opera. If you define Tommy as a concept album, then the original cast recording of, say, "Whistle Down the Wind" is too.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to go a bit off-topic here. I just wanted to bring in one part from Wiki regarding Tommy.
"...and it took the idea of thematically based albums to a much higher appreciation by both critics and the public. It was also the first story-based concept album of the rock era (as distinct from the song-cycle style album) to enjoy commercial success."
I think this is half-right. I don't look at Tommy as a concept album at all, as it does above, but I *would* agree with the notion of it being a "thematically-based album" - story-based, if you would. There IS a difference. For a start, I would argue that the latter is much more accessible...much less oblique.
Would one consider Sinatra's "In the Wee Small Hours" a concept album - Wiki and several other sources DO, but again, I don't think it is. It's thematically-based - based on the theme of lost love and Sinatra's own problems with Ava.
BTW, I never liked the phrase "rock-opera". I always felt it to be a cheap title that Kit Lambert thought up to try and make something much more inaccessible and grandiose than it actually is/was.
With regard to Queen, I don't think they ever had anything approaching a concept album - certainly not in the context of The Who's proposed "Lifehouse" (which was the basis of Who's Next), or the work of YES or Rush. Maybe elements of Made in Heaven? But certainly not the whole package.
Anyway, that's just my tuppence worth - I just would agree that the whole notion of "what's concept and what's not" needs to be re-examined.
Tommy is not a concept album, it's a rock opera. If you define Tommy as a concept album, then the original cast recording of, say, "Whistle Down the Wind" is too.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to go a bit off-topic here. I just wanted to bring in one part from Wiki regarding Tommy.
"...and it took the idea of thematically based albums to a much higher appreciation by both critics and the public. It was also the first story-based concept album of the rock era (as distinct from the song-cycle style album) to enjoy commercial success."
I think this is half-right. I don't look at Tommy as a concept album at all, as it does above, but I *would* agree with the notion of it being a "thematically-based album" - story-based, if you would. There IS a difference. For a start, I would argue that the latter is much more accessible...much less oblique.
Would one consider Sinatra's "In the Wee Small Hours" a concept album - Wiki and several other sources DO, but again, I don't think it is. It's thematically-based - based on the theme of lost love and Sinatra's own problems with Ava.
BTW, I never liked the phrase "rock-opera". I always felt it to be a cheap title that Kit Lambert thought up to try and make something much more inaccessible and grandiose than it actually is/was.
With regard to Queen, I don't think they ever had anything approaching a concept album - certainly not in the context of The Who's proposed "Lifehouse" (which was the basis of Who's Next), or the work of YES or Rush. Maybe elements of Made in Heaven? But certainly not the whole package.
Anyway, that's just my tuppence worth - I just would agree that the whole notion of "what's concept and what's not" needs to be re-examined.
Has "concept album" become a term which is completely interchangeable with "progressive rock", or have I just lost a part of this discussion?
Does this now mean that Genesis has done only one progressive rock album? :/
Does this now mean that Genesis has done only one progressive rock album? :/
Rock operas include Tommy, Quadrophenia, The Wall, even Kilroy Was here...they have a story. Concept albums on the other hand have a general theme. (I supposed all rock operas could be considered concept albums, but not all concept albums are rock operas.)
And no prog isn't synonomous with concept albums but many prog bands seem to do that.
And no prog isn't synonomous with concept albums but many prog bands seem to do that.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Tero wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Has "concept album" become a term which is completely interchangeable with "progressive rock", or have I just lost a part of this discussion?
Does this now mean that Genesis has done only one progressive rock album? :/[/QUOTE]
Oh no, certainly not. Although it just seems that select people are not differentiating between the two terms, the simple explanation is "sarcasm". :)
Does this now mean that Genesis has done only one progressive rock album? :/[/QUOTE]
Oh no, certainly not. Although it just seems that select people are not differentiating between the two terms, the simple explanation is "sarcasm". :)
Queen were a jazz band, get over yourselves. They even named an album after it.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]goinback wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Rock operas include Tommy, Quadrophenia, The Wall, even Kilroy Was here...they have a story. Concept albums on the other hand have a general theme. (I supposed all rock operas could be considered concept albums, but not all concept albums are rock operas.)
And no prog isn't synonomous with concept albums but many prog bands seem to do that.[/QUOTE]
i would add a couple of albums to the concept album list....Bat Out Of Hell and maybe Boston's Walk On
- mainly the feel and flow of an album dictates whether it is a concept....the Beatles Sg Pepper is widely accepted as the first concept album, but Macca and Lennon both said it wasn't....i think in the ears of the listener it's all about the feel and flow
And no prog isn't synonomous with concept albums but many prog bands seem to do that.[/QUOTE]
i would add a couple of albums to the concept album list....Bat Out Of Hell and maybe Boston's Walk On
- mainly the feel and flow of an album dictates whether it is a concept....the Beatles Sg Pepper is widely accepted as the first concept album, but Macca and Lennon both said it wasn't....i think in the ears of the listener it's all about the feel and flow
I wonder why no-one mentioned Pink Floyd's The Wall as concept album...