[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Sure John, but not everybody thinks the same. For some, music is some sort of extremist religious doctrine: if you like punk, you can't like metal; if you like Beatles, you can't like Stones; if you like 'macho' bands, you can't like Queen; if you like the so-called 'classic rock', you can't like the 80's, 90's or 00's; if you like classical, you can't like jazz. All of those 'rules' are stupid, but in thousands (or even millions) of cases, they apply, unfortunately.
Denying that the homophobic factor was crucial for Queen's backlash would be ridiculous.
Most people, in the 21st century, when literacy is (relatively) common, when millions of men and women get undegraduate degrees, PhD's and stuff... millions still judge the cake by their bias against the baker, not by its own merit. Racism, xenophobia, elitism, etc. are current phenomena, which have been modernised, but haven't disappeared at all.[/QUOTE]
What hurts me most is - how is it possible to change that?
It hurts me so much in what state our world is today... I'm studying philosophy like mad to change myself, to 'surrender my ego' and become 'good' to help the people...
After all we're living in ONE world, breathing ONE air and have the same range of feeling so that there is literally 'ONE love'...
Sorry to have posted that but I felt the need to do so - as to "Freddie" and "gay" I'm so tired of this topic...
But I feel that there is so much more going on in the music business than we can imagine - probably 'envious and greedy business-sharks' still have more saying than we, ordinary people... (regarding Queen's popularity)
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> If we follow common logic that '...Break Free' was the track which 'killed' Queen in the US (and hence globally) then, I think this is an inaccurate assumption.
I agree.
> I think this decline in sales was (frankly) due to p*sh product - and not sexuality.
I agree.
> Now, I accept your point that '...Break Free' may well have been the cherry on the cake
If by 'you' you mean 'me', that's not (and never was) my point. If not, then skip this line ;)
> But I still say that the 'beginning of the end' had very little to do with sex or homophobia
The 'beginning of the end' would surely be different for each listener. My point is that a strong (not a 100%, not the only) point for the backlash was related to sexuality. Another would be, for instance, Roger's, John's and even Freddie's underrated skills as instrumentalists, or how the audience pigeonholed the band for songs like 'Ga Ga' or 'Break Free' (both of which were composed by heterosexual blokes), etc.
> Sadly, I also expect this 'standard' in others too.
So do I, but in the process I'm only bound to face more and more personal disappointments.
> So to attribute the decline of Queen to Freddie's sexuality - for me - is nonesense.
It is - Queen didn't decline because Fred was gay. Their public image, their prestige and their quality went downhill in a wide complex process, where increasing homophobia (due to sociological factors, rather than musical) was a pivotal feature, but of course not the only.
> I do accept that it may have been a contributory factor, and I also accept that the answer to the question of Queen's decline is both long and complicated. (So I do not really dismiss your views).
I agree with every word.
I agree.
> I think this decline in sales was (frankly) due to p*sh product - and not sexuality.
I agree.
> Now, I accept your point that '...Break Free' may well have been the cherry on the cake
If by 'you' you mean 'me', that's not (and never was) my point. If not, then skip this line ;)
> But I still say that the 'beginning of the end' had very little to do with sex or homophobia
The 'beginning of the end' would surely be different for each listener. My point is that a strong (not a 100%, not the only) point for the backlash was related to sexuality. Another would be, for instance, Roger's, John's and even Freddie's underrated skills as instrumentalists, or how the audience pigeonholed the band for songs like 'Ga Ga' or 'Break Free' (both of which were composed by heterosexual blokes), etc.
> Sadly, I also expect this 'standard' in others too.
So do I, but in the process I'm only bound to face more and more personal disappointments.
> So to attribute the decline of Queen to Freddie's sexuality - for me - is nonesense.
It is - Queen didn't decline because Fred was gay. Their public image, their prestige and their quality went downhill in a wide complex process, where increasing homophobia (due to sociological factors, rather than musical) was a pivotal feature, but of course not the only.
> I do accept that it may have been a contributory factor, and I also accept that the answer to the question of Queen's decline is both long and complicated. (So I do not really dismiss your views).
I agree with every word.
Seb: So at least two of us have some sanity.
Pity about the rest of the board!
(Runs away and hides in some safe underground bunker!)
Pity about the rest of the board!
(Runs away and hides in some safe underground bunker!)
I dont think it would had still saved freddies life if he wasnt gay either,you can still pick up aids from unprotective sex from same or different sexes
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Dusta wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I certainly think that Freddie's sexuality was apparant to folks in the US in 79/80 or thereabouts, and, unfortunately, my observation is that it DID impact their popularity in the US. I'm not certain WHY folks in the US seemed to be more aware, and, obsessed in a negative way with this.[/QUOTE]
have to disagree with you completely. Queen had their biggest-selling US album of all time (the Game) during this period, and the singles Crazy Little Thing...and Another Bites the Dust...both topped the US charts. Queen also topped the dance and R&B charts at this time with these two singles...
the US went off queen NOT because of any gay connotations...but because THEY thought the Hot Space album was shite. from that point on Queen lost the US and NEVER got that audience back
have to disagree with you completely. Queen had their biggest-selling US album of all time (the Game) during this period, and the singles Crazy Little Thing...and Another Bites the Dust...both topped the US charts. Queen also topped the dance and R&B charts at this time with these two singles...
the US went off queen NOT because of any gay connotations...but because THEY thought the Hot Space album was shite. from that point on Queen lost the US and NEVER got that audience back
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]<font color=green>Bren<font color=orange>ski wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Dusta wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I certainly think that Freddie's sexuality was apparant to folks in the US in 79/80 or thereabouts, and, unfortunately, my observation is that it DID impact their popularity in the US. I'm not certain WHY folks in the US seemed to be more aware, and, obsessed in a negative way with this.[/QUOTE]
the US went off queen NOT because of any gay connotations...but because THEY thought the Hot Space album was shite. [/QUOTE]
Lol: Nice turn of phrse there Brenski.
That is the funniest thing I have read on this board for quite a while.
Talk about calling a spade - a spade!
the US went off queen NOT because of any gay connotations...but because THEY thought the Hot Space album was shite. [/QUOTE]
Lol: Nice turn of phrse there Brenski.
That is the funniest thing I have read on this board for quite a while.
Talk about calling a spade - a spade!
A quick answer to the topic question:
No.
No.
Yes, this is what I was trying to say(and, I may have been off by a year or two)...only that it was a contributing factor, at least in the part of the US where I was living at the time(redneckland). I think the change in their music(Radio GaGa, etc), combined with the burgeoning rumours abounding about Freddie's sexuality, along with the lack of touring in the US after that point, all had a part to play. I listen to so many of you talking about seeing Queen live, and, am struck by how very few Americans, in comparison, have seen Queen live. I think that Queen live was a true selling point for the band.
And, I am basing my comments only on personal observations: Things I heard and saw, commonly around that time. I heard and saw a great deal of homophobic commentary, perpetuated, even, by the disc jockies on the radio stations, and, of course, jokes about Queen going disco just when disco was dying, Radio GaGa(which I now LOVE)...
Of course, none of this matters, really, it is just that, occasionally I can't help feeling a bit of regret for what might have been.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]John S Stuart wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Most people, in the 21st century, when literacy is (relatively) common, when millions of men and women get undegraduate degrees, PhD's and stuff... millions still judge the cake by their bias against the baker, not by its own merit. Racism, xenophobia, elitism, etc. are current phenomena, which have been modernised, but haven't disappeared at all.[/QUOTE]
Sadly, this is so true. As a music lover, I can see you are more interested in the art - than the artist. (Although it is interesting to find where the artist draws his inspiration from). Nevertheless, we can both judge art on its own merits - regardless of petty prejudices - or tribal instincts.
Sadly, I also expect this 'standard' in others too. So to attribute the decline of Queen to Freddie's sexuality - for me - is nonesense.
I do accept that it may have been a contributory factor, and I also accept that the answer to the question of Queen's decline is both long and complicated. (So I do not really dismiss your views).
However, I sometimes get frustrated by the glib simplicity of such theories - especially when they are so frequently rolled out as definitive answers.
But I guess that says more about me, than it does about the question![/QUOTE]
And, I am basing my comments only on personal observations: Things I heard and saw, commonly around that time. I heard and saw a great deal of homophobic commentary, perpetuated, even, by the disc jockies on the radio stations, and, of course, jokes about Queen going disco just when disco was dying, Radio GaGa(which I now LOVE)...
Of course, none of this matters, really, it is just that, occasionally I can't help feeling a bit of regret for what might have been.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]John S Stuart wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Sebastian wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Most people, in the 21st century, when literacy is (relatively) common, when millions of men and women get undegraduate degrees, PhD's and stuff... millions still judge the cake by their bias against the baker, not by its own merit. Racism, xenophobia, elitism, etc. are current phenomena, which have been modernised, but haven't disappeared at all.[/QUOTE]
Sadly, this is so true. As a music lover, I can see you are more interested in the art - than the artist. (Although it is interesting to find where the artist draws his inspiration from). Nevertheless, we can both judge art on its own merits - regardless of petty prejudices - or tribal instincts.
Sadly, I also expect this 'standard' in others too. So to attribute the decline of Queen to Freddie's sexuality - for me - is nonesense.
I do accept that it may have been a contributory factor, and I also accept that the answer to the question of Queen's decline is both long and complicated. (So I do not really dismiss your views).
However, I sometimes get frustrated by the glib simplicity of such theories - especially when they are so frequently rolled out as definitive answers.
But I guess that says more about me, than it does about the question![/QUOTE]
I got into Queen and Freddie after the leotards and the ballet shoes! therefore not fully aware.
I first saw Freddie 80's the Stage Person/Rock God/ music genius wowing those crowds with that loud aggressive music pumping that adrenaline, he is in many Rock fans eyes their idol, someone you admire a strong personality to look up to, then you see his campy interviews/general gay antics its like wtf what a disappointment/deception/fraud.
This is what turned a lot of the mainstream away. Nobody would be talking about the Beatles, Elvis, Michael Jackson, as Freddie/Brian/Roger/John were the music maestros of the 20th Century as poll after poll confirms.
I first saw Freddie 80's the Stage Person/Rock God/ music genius wowing those crowds with that loud aggressive music pumping that adrenaline, he is in many Rock fans eyes their idol, someone you admire a strong personality to look up to, then you see his campy interviews/general gay antics its like wtf what a disappointment/deception/fraud.
This is what turned a lot of the mainstream away. Nobody would be talking about the Beatles, Elvis, Michael Jackson, as Freddie/Brian/Roger/John were the music maestros of the 20th Century as poll after poll confirms.
I think the real question here is 'did Queen bomb in the USA in the 80's because of Freddie's image change?'
I'm not American, but I WAS around and a Queen fan in the early 80's
Freddie's sexual ambiguity DID express itself in Queen's music aroundvideo that time: Body Language, Staying Power, then the infamous Living on my Own (admittedly a solo project)
This wasn't frowned upon my most Queen fans but it DID alienate mainstream record buyers (in particular Hot Space - the stylings were just too far away from what was expected of Queen)
In short, it wasn't per se the gay thing (Elton did OK in the USA afterall!), but it was the INFLUENCE it had on the music which ruined their hard-rock reputation.
And the fact that Freddie was so 'in yer face' without ever coming out
I'm not American, but I WAS around and a Queen fan in the early 80's
Freddie's sexual ambiguity DID express itself in Queen's music aroundvideo that time: Body Language, Staying Power, then the infamous Living on my Own (admittedly a solo project)
This wasn't frowned upon my most Queen fans but it DID alienate mainstream record buyers (in particular Hot Space - the stylings were just too far away from what was expected of Queen)
In short, it wasn't per se the gay thing (Elton did OK in the USA afterall!), but it was the INFLUENCE it had on the music which ruined their hard-rock reputation.
And the fact that Freddie was so 'in yer face' without ever coming out
I think the real question here is 'did Queen bomb in the USA in the 80's because of Freddie's image change?'
I'm not American, but I WAS around and a Queen fan in the early 80's
Freddie's sexual ambiguity DID express itself in Queen's music aroundvideo that time: Body Language, Staying Power, then the infamous Living on my Own (admittedly a solo project)
This wasn't frowned upon my most Queen fans but it DID alienate mainstream record buyers (in particular Hot Space - the stylings were just too far away from what was expected of Queen)
In short, it wasn't per se the gay thing (Elton did OK in the USA afterall!), but it was the INFLUENCE it had on the music which ruined their hard-rock reputation.
And the fact that Freddie was so 'in yer face' without ever coming out
I'm not American, but I WAS around and a Queen fan in the early 80's
Freddie's sexual ambiguity DID express itself in Queen's music aroundvideo that time: Body Language, Staying Power, then the infamous Living on my Own (admittedly a solo project)
This wasn't frowned upon my most Queen fans but it DID alienate mainstream record buyers (in particular Hot Space - the stylings were just too far away from what was expected of Queen)
In short, it wasn't per se the gay thing (Elton did OK in the USA afterall!), but it was the INFLUENCE it had on the music which ruined their hard-rock reputation.
And the fact that Freddie was so 'in yer face' without ever coming out
Nevertheless...wether he was gay or not, he still was a great showman and wrote some of the best songs ever written.
Yes, Freddie being gay/bi definitely hurt Queen's popularity in the US. It just did, thats reality.
i think this is a stupid question
freddie`s sexuality had nothing to do with the band`s popularity!!!!!
is the music wich makes popularity!!!!
that`s why the rolling stones are more popular than queen: HIS MUSIC IS MORE SIMPLE AND LESS ELABORATED
many people prefer this kind of music, cause its more comfortable to his ears
i like bands like queen, who makes easy the difficult things!!!
freddie`s sexuality had nothing to do with the band`s popularity!!!!!
is the music wich makes popularity!!!!
that`s why the rolling stones are more popular than queen: HIS MUSIC IS MORE SIMPLE AND LESS ELABORATED
many people prefer this kind of music, cause its more comfortable to his ears
i like bands like queen, who makes easy the difficult things!!!
hey all i wanted to know was what ppl thought