In response to the ones who posted about the "Lost Boys",I have met them and they all have a very good mind set. After they were moved from Africa,many of them came to US. The boys spoke at my old church and were members of it. The boys/young men endured many horrendous events but they are normal functioning guys. They work,they go to school and they lead normal lives. Just because they endured what they did ,doesn't mean they can't be normal functioning people in today's society.
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[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]colfarrell1 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]In response to the ones who posted about the "Lost Boys",I have met them and they all have a very good mind set. After they were moved from Africa,many of them came to US. The boys spoke at my old church and were members of it. The boys/young men endured many horrendous events but they are normal functioning guys. They work,they go to school and they lead normal lives. Just because they endured what they did ,doesn't mean they can't be normal functioning people in today's society.
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Ummm....you are a bit confused. You are talking about the Lost Boys of the Sudan. What we are talking about is the "Lost Boys" who grew up in the Mormon communities in the US (they therefore are US citizens) and are removed from the community once they hit puberty because they represent a "threat" to the older men of the Mormon community, who want the young brides for themselves.
It's an easily understood mistake, but you should check to make sure you are on the same page as the rest of the conversants before posting a response.
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Ummm....you are a bit confused. You are talking about the Lost Boys of the Sudan. What we are talking about is the "Lost Boys" who grew up in the Mormon communities in the US (they therefore are US citizens) and are removed from the community once they hit puberty because they represent a "threat" to the older men of the Mormon community, who want the young brides for themselves.
It's an easily understood mistake, but you should check to make sure you are on the same page as the rest of the conversants before posting a response.
I read what they were talking about..The title 'Lost Boys' does apply to both,doesn't it? Both groups were boys who were alone and only had each other for protection. What I said still applies,A person can have unjust things happen to them but they can rise above and lead a normal life. I know that from personal experience.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Erin wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]HistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's when it's not well regulated it becomes an issue, which as Magical points out is more common in the Bible Belt (which I'm starting to believe Michigan is part of the longer I live here). I surely didn't mean to cause anyone offense and apologize if I did! [/QUOTE]
... I should add my aunt is a religious nutcase, so they are probably incorporating Jesus into the math lessons somehow.
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I think I'd get along well with your aunt. lol
Though I don't incorporate Jesus into the math lessons because, well, I'm Jewish. lol But since maths is probably one of the disciplines I'm most skilled in, and since my whole religious background always encouraged learning and studying, religion actually helped me go through my school years, including the study of the Torah and the prayers and all this nonsense. ;-))
"Religion helped me" means: the practices and costumes and uses associated with my religious background helped me. I'm not saying I was actually rewarded or helped by dear, good old HaShem. But, if I did receive any help there, well, thanks again, Lord. :-)))
lol
I don't know, now trying to behave like an adult, I think this option for homeschooling is so wonderful. I wished there were something like that here! It's a way parents can also help their children scape from private or public institutional shortcomings - lack of quality, corruption, lack of proper values that parents deem important, and so on.
I think, however, that these ideas are always great in abstract, but when it comes to applying them, there are always a lot of shades: good effects can be pointed out, but also not so good, or outright bad effects too.
The fact that the communities you guys are talking about and which I don't know absolutely anything about - degree of financial and political and maybe judicial autonomy, the basic profile of the families, and so on - are involved in all this, just make matters more delicate and difficult to analyse, I think - it's a reality, well, maybe it's a reality very peculiar to the U.S.
[teenager pretending to know anything about the world] :-))
... I should add my aunt is a religious nutcase, so they are probably incorporating Jesus into the math lessons somehow.
[/QUOTE]
I think I'd get along well with your aunt. lol
Though I don't incorporate Jesus into the math lessons because, well, I'm Jewish. lol But since maths is probably one of the disciplines I'm most skilled in, and since my whole religious background always encouraged learning and studying, religion actually helped me go through my school years, including the study of the Torah and the prayers and all this nonsense. ;-))
"Religion helped me" means: the practices and costumes and uses associated with my religious background helped me. I'm not saying I was actually rewarded or helped by dear, good old HaShem. But, if I did receive any help there, well, thanks again, Lord. :-)))
lol
I don't know, now trying to behave like an adult, I think this option for homeschooling is so wonderful. I wished there were something like that here! It's a way parents can also help their children scape from private or public institutional shortcomings - lack of quality, corruption, lack of proper values that parents deem important, and so on.
I think, however, that these ideas are always great in abstract, but when it comes to applying them, there are always a lot of shades: good effects can be pointed out, but also not so good, or outright bad effects too.
The fact that the communities you guys are talking about and which I don't know absolutely anything about - degree of financial and political and maybe judicial autonomy, the basic profile of the families, and so on - are involved in all this, just make matters more delicate and difficult to analyse, I think - it's a reality, well, maybe it's a reality very peculiar to the U.S.
[teenager pretending to know anything about the world] :-))
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]colfarrell1 wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I read what they were talking about..The title 'Lost Boys' does apply to both,doesn't it? Both groups were boys who were alone and only had each other for protection. What I said still applies,A person can have unjust things happen to them but they can rise above and lead a normal life. I know that from personal experience. [/QUOTE]
Of course they can rise above and lead normal lives. It wasn't implied they couldn't... or if it was, I highly doubt it was meant as an insult (which is how I think you may have taken it). Even survivors of the worst abuse can rise above that abuse - think holocaust survivors. But the trauma remains part of who they are, so to come out of a traumatic existence saying they're fine and can move on without addressing what happened to them is denial in its saddest form. Like you, I too know this from personal experience. Sadly, I think many people do.
Of course they can rise above and lead normal lives. It wasn't implied they couldn't... or if it was, I highly doubt it was meant as an insult (which is how I think you may have taken it). Even survivors of the worst abuse can rise above that abuse - think holocaust survivors. But the trauma remains part of who they are, so to come out of a traumatic existence saying they're fine and can move on without addressing what happened to them is denial in its saddest form. Like you, I too know this from personal experience. Sadly, I think many people do.
What you are saying, Cindy, is accurate; in an oblique way. The major difference of course being that many of the "Lost Boys" (Who don't use this name themselves BTW, as the Lost Boys of the Sudan do) from these Mormon cults don't want to live a "normal" life and overcome adversity. Because to them, a normal life is going back to the Mormons, and living that lifestyle. Normal is based on perception; if you want to get philosophical about it. The discussion that we were having concerning these boys was not philosophical. The question was raised of why these boys didn't offer to come forward and help law enforcement with their investigations to stop the abuse and shut down these cults. The reason they don't help and come foward is because they are taught from infancy to view anything outside of the cult as Satanic, and that if they leave the cult they are lost forever in the eyes of God, since salvation lies soley to those members of the cult. Therefore, all they want to do when they are removed from the cult by the older men is to find a bride (the condition they must meet for acceptance back into the community) and return to the community. If they cannot find a bride, they often don't go back to the cult. But they do not go to the police either, for fear of incriminating their family or themselves in illegal activity, not to mention the whole "You will go straight to hell if you do" thing.
This "overcoming adversity" thing you speak of does hold true, but the roles are flipped. To the oustide, the example of them overcoming diversity would be to tell on their family and friends, stay strong through it to stop the abuse, and go on to lead a normal, productive life. But that is not their perception of normal; that is not their perception of overcoming the obstacles. Their example of overcoming the obstacles is to find a bride willing to come back to the Mormon community, bring her back, be accepted back into the community and again gain salvation for their soul in this manner. THIS is the obstacle THEY want to overcome. This is why most of them do not come forward and identify themselves to law enforcement. There are no judgements made that they can or cannot overcome the obstacles in their way; the question is what obstalces and how do they perceive them to overcome them. So be careful when you draw comparisons between things just because they have similiar titles. Just because they are referred to as the same thing doesn't mean the goals are the same.
*BTW, this is not meant to belittle or insult you. I say this in a purely conversational and non-inflammatory manner*
This "overcoming adversity" thing you speak of does hold true, but the roles are flipped. To the oustide, the example of them overcoming diversity would be to tell on their family and friends, stay strong through it to stop the abuse, and go on to lead a normal, productive life. But that is not their perception of normal; that is not their perception of overcoming the obstacles. Their example of overcoming the obstacles is to find a bride willing to come back to the Mormon community, bring her back, be accepted back into the community and again gain salvation for their soul in this manner. THIS is the obstacle THEY want to overcome. This is why most of them do not come forward and identify themselves to law enforcement. There are no judgements made that they can or cannot overcome the obstacles in their way; the question is what obstalces and how do they perceive them to overcome them. So be careful when you draw comparisons between things just because they have similiar titles. Just because they are referred to as the same thing doesn't mean the goals are the same.
*BTW, this is not meant to belittle or insult you. I say this in a purely conversational and non-inflammatory manner*
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]MasterHistoryGirl wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
Their example of overcoming the obstacles is to find a bride willing to come back to the Mormon community, bring her back, be accepted back into the community and again gain salvation for their soul in this manner. [/QUOTE]
TIP FOR FUTURE MORMON COMPOUNDERS:
Mail-order brides (non-English speaking)
No one would've found out a thing!!!
Seriously though, I think we'd be pretty amazed at how quickly these people will be able to integrate back into society. The ones with the most problems just MIGHT be the ones who go thru all that mind-job therapy crap that's out there. The interview that Sir GH references might be a window to that fact.
Their example of overcoming the obstacles is to find a bride willing to come back to the Mormon community, bring her back, be accepted back into the community and again gain salvation for their soul in this manner. [/QUOTE]
TIP FOR FUTURE MORMON COMPOUNDERS:
Mail-order brides (non-English speaking)
No one would've found out a thing!!!
Seriously though, I think we'd be pretty amazed at how quickly these people will be able to integrate back into society. The ones with the most problems just MIGHT be the ones who go thru all that mind-job therapy crap that's out there. The interview that Sir GH references might be a window to that fact.
And back to hell those children will go...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat
This cult in Texas is not part of the Mormon churchin anyway. The Mormon church does not allow polygomy to accur because in 1890, Brigham Young sent a proclaimation denouncing the practice. The members of the main Mormon church who did not agree with this branched off into their own sects, and this is why all this stuff is goingon.
Recently I saw a segment on 20/20 about a polygomist group outside Colorado Springs. They seemed ok, that is like they didn't abuse their children, but who knows. It was just ridiculous! This guy had nine wives/concubines and twenty children!
Anyway, I'm not trying to start an argument or anything. I happen to be a Mormon, so I thought I would clear up any misconceptions :)
Recently I saw a segment on 20/20 about a polygomist group outside Colorado Springs. They seemed ok, that is like they didn't abuse their children, but who knows. It was just ridiculous! This guy had nine wives/concubines and twenty children!
Anyway, I'm not trying to start an argument or anything. I happen to be a Mormon, so I thought I would clear up any misconceptions :)