Beatings! Woohoo!
Maybe we ought to dust the Circus Maximus off a bit.... just in case.
If the Romans had internet, they'd be us. Don't you forget it.
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I think it's a good thing to let your child learn an instrument but it's certainly not good to force a 5 year old to learn to play although they do not want to and from an unfit teacher. It would not be a good thing if a parent forces the child to play piano because it was the childhood dream of the parent to become a world famous pianist and now the child is supposed to make that happen for the parent.
I also think it's okay to let a small child learn Karate (although I personally would not choose s fighting sport for my child) - if the children enjoy learning it and if they are taught by a good teacher/in a good school. In a good Karate school children are taught more than just counting their belts: they learn respect, fair play and discipline. This is not what happens to the children shown in this film. Probably a mother who enjoys "spluttering other peoples' noses across their faces" is just mentally not fit to have the best interest of her child in mind.
I also think it's okay to let a small child learn Karate (although I personally would not choose s fighting sport for my child) - if the children enjoy learning it and if they are taught by a good teacher/in a good school. In a good Karate school children are taught more than just counting their belts: they learn respect, fair play and discipline. This is not what happens to the children shown in this film. Probably a mother who enjoys "spluttering other peoples' noses across their faces" is just mentally not fit to have the best interest of her child in mind.
Hey, a civilized debate. About time!
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's sad when parents feel they have to teach their little kids self-defense, I hear that from people in big cities here, too. They teach the kids to fight back because of widespread bullying and physical violence in schools.
[/QUOTE]
Well, I have to strongly disagree with you on that. I think one of the things we have to teach our kids is toughness. It's inherent... Survival of the fittest. What, now that it's 2008, we should treat every kid as a special prize? You just dumb down the race doing that. Why do you think a career in the military is so useful to many young men and women? Can you imagine a "boot camp" or "traning excercise" using full protective gear? Our armies would get torn to pieces once they're out in the real world.
Kinda like today's youth. The suicide rate climbs, violent crimes have increased, and the way each generation becomes less and less respective of the previous one continues.
I don't think this Kickboxing spectacle is recognized as a sport, so signing a petition would do nothing. How about starting a petition to ban cat-tossing? But it would be interesting to look up those kids in 10-15 years and see where they're life has lead them. I would not be surprised to see them at the top of their respective fields, but then I remember where this story took place.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's sad when parents feel they have to teach their little kids self-defense, I hear that from people in big cities here, too. They teach the kids to fight back because of widespread bullying and physical violence in schools.
[/QUOTE]
Well, I have to strongly disagree with you on that. I think one of the things we have to teach our kids is toughness. It's inherent... Survival of the fittest. What, now that it's 2008, we should treat every kid as a special prize? You just dumb down the race doing that. Why do you think a career in the military is so useful to many young men and women? Can you imagine a "boot camp" or "traning excercise" using full protective gear? Our armies would get torn to pieces once they're out in the real world.
Kinda like today's youth. The suicide rate climbs, violent crimes have increased, and the way each generation becomes less and less respective of the previous one continues.
I don't think this Kickboxing spectacle is recognized as a sport, so signing a petition would do nothing. How about starting a petition to ban cat-tossing? But it would be interesting to look up those kids in 10-15 years and see where they're life has lead them. I would not be surprised to see them at the top of their respective fields, but then I remember where this story took place.
I have no clue what you are disagreeing on. That I find it sad that people feel it necessary to teach small children self defense? You cannot "disagree" with my feelings.
Actually, I think society should protect our children. There should be more money in schools to avoid bullying and violence. Kids from poor families should get help from the community to enable them to make it in society with a good education rather than kicking and fighting. We could take the money from the ridiculous military adventures like Afghanistan and Irak which cost billions of tax money and do not get us anywhere.
I think we should rise above the "survival of the fittest" concept if it means that you need to be a physical fighter to survive in a civilized society. After all, we do not live in caves anymore. If children do not respect other people we should not accept that as a given natural development but we should teach our children respect for other human beings. If you think that this is all hippie stuff - it's not. It's better to educate and teach young people than to throw half a generation into jail and pay for that. It makes more sense from every point of view - social, economical, you name it.
Actually, I think society should protect our children. There should be more money in schools to avoid bullying and violence. Kids from poor families should get help from the community to enable them to make it in society with a good education rather than kicking and fighting. We could take the money from the ridiculous military adventures like Afghanistan and Irak which cost billions of tax money and do not get us anywhere.
I think we should rise above the "survival of the fittest" concept if it means that you need to be a physical fighter to survive in a civilized society. After all, we do not live in caves anymore. If children do not respect other people we should not accept that as a given natural development but we should teach our children respect for other human beings. If you think that this is all hippie stuff - it's not. It's better to educate and teach young people than to throw half a generation into jail and pay for that. It makes more sense from every point of view - social, economical, you name it.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME] It's better to educate and teach young people than to throw half a generation into jail and pay for that. It makes more sense from every point of view - social, economical, you name it. [/QUOTE]
This is absolutely correct but... unfortunately not enough of us follow this line of thought. Therefore, sadly, it's still necessary to teach our kids to defend themselves.
The right balance of respect and self-preservation must be struck, however, otherwise those kids - and society - are short changed.
In this documentary, it shows there's no balance. The parents take their kids our of school and travel uncounted miles to get those kids into a ring. They're crossing the line of healthy and competitive to obsessed and dangerous. Although, in all fairness, even in the Karate school my daughter attends - and indeed in dancing schools, gymnastics, etc. - there are stage-parents who push their kids to the limit. They don't know how to strike that balance so it becomes all or nothing, a parent's obsession a child either embraces or learns to despise.
This is absolutely correct but... unfortunately not enough of us follow this line of thought. Therefore, sadly, it's still necessary to teach our kids to defend themselves.
The right balance of respect and self-preservation must be struck, however, otherwise those kids - and society - are short changed.
In this documentary, it shows there's no balance. The parents take their kids our of school and travel uncounted miles to get those kids into a ring. They're crossing the line of healthy and competitive to obsessed and dangerous. Although, in all fairness, even in the Karate school my daughter attends - and indeed in dancing schools, gymnastics, etc. - there are stage-parents who push their kids to the limit. They don't know how to strike that balance so it becomes all or nothing, a parent's obsession a child either embraces or learns to despise.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I have no clue what you are disagreeing on. [/QUOTE]
That you find it sad we have to toughen up our children. And then, that you think EVERYONE ELSE is responsible for raising our children. Let's look:
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]There should be more money in schools to avoid bullying and violence. [/QUOTE]
Well, in the US, voters decide if they want to raise their taxes to give more money to schools. They don't want to. And how is money going to solve bullying and violence? Private security for each student? Guess what? In my school, 20 years ago, there was a bully. In my Dad's school, there was a bully. In my Grandpa's school, there was a bully. And guess what? In adult life THERE ARE BULLIES!!! But you think we should somehow do away with them. Well what happens when you're 22 and facing your first bully? Not good.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Kids from poor families should get help from the community to enable them to make it in society with a good education rather than kicking and fighting. [/QUOTE]
And how does this stop poverty? It would only enable the poor family to keep doing what they're doing for some more free gov'ment money. Some kids really are striving to get out of that life. Unfortunately, they get sucked into the gangs or are killed out of jealousy.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]We could take the money from the ridiculous military adventures like Afghanistan and Irak which cost billions of tax money and do not get us anywhere.[/QUOTE]
It's Iraq. While I may agree with you on Iraq, we can't just walk out of Afghanistan. Just ask Russia. That is a problem that will continue until someone figures out a way to stop fundamentalism... other than sending more and more troops. Ignore it, and within 10 years Europe gets nuked. I'm sorry, Barb, I like you and your country too much to allow that to happen. Go USA.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]If children do not respect other people we should not accept that as a given natural development but we should teach our children respect for other human beings.[/QUOTE]
Newsflash. Children do not respect other people. This is more obvious now than ever. So do we take away any level of competition making EVERY CHILD special? Where then, does the concept of "striving to be better" go? Right out the window. So you would rather a child be a "Clarinet Player" instead of "First Chair, All-state Clarinetist"? Well, then, why even practice? I'm just as good as the next student regardless, right? Next thing you know, we have a generation of slackers. Oops, too late... we do.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's better to educate and teach young people than to throw half a generation into jail and pay for that. It makes more sense from every point of view - social, economical, you name it. [/QUOTE]
Whoa. Half a generation is in jail? That's insane and completely impossible. We already have over-crowded jails.
I would be interested to hear what you're going to educate and teach these kids that we don't already have in place... and how you intend on paying for this New Education. Sounds very Clinton-ish.
That you find it sad we have to toughen up our children. And then, that you think EVERYONE ELSE is responsible for raising our children. Let's look:
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]There should be more money in schools to avoid bullying and violence. [/QUOTE]
Well, in the US, voters decide if they want to raise their taxes to give more money to schools. They don't want to. And how is money going to solve bullying and violence? Private security for each student? Guess what? In my school, 20 years ago, there was a bully. In my Dad's school, there was a bully. In my Grandpa's school, there was a bully. And guess what? In adult life THERE ARE BULLIES!!! But you think we should somehow do away with them. Well what happens when you're 22 and facing your first bully? Not good.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Kids from poor families should get help from the community to enable them to make it in society with a good education rather than kicking and fighting. [/QUOTE]
And how does this stop poverty? It would only enable the poor family to keep doing what they're doing for some more free gov'ment money. Some kids really are striving to get out of that life. Unfortunately, they get sucked into the gangs or are killed out of jealousy.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]We could take the money from the ridiculous military adventures like Afghanistan and Irak which cost billions of tax money and do not get us anywhere.[/QUOTE]
It's Iraq. While I may agree with you on Iraq, we can't just walk out of Afghanistan. Just ask Russia. That is a problem that will continue until someone figures out a way to stop fundamentalism... other than sending more and more troops. Ignore it, and within 10 years Europe gets nuked. I'm sorry, Barb, I like you and your country too much to allow that to happen. Go USA.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]If children do not respect other people we should not accept that as a given natural development but we should teach our children respect for other human beings.[/QUOTE]
Newsflash. Children do not respect other people. This is more obvious now than ever. So do we take away any level of competition making EVERY CHILD special? Where then, does the concept of "striving to be better" go? Right out the window. So you would rather a child be a "Clarinet Player" instead of "First Chair, All-state Clarinetist"? Well, then, why even practice? I'm just as good as the next student regardless, right? Next thing you know, we have a generation of slackers. Oops, too late... we do.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's better to educate and teach young people than to throw half a generation into jail and pay for that. It makes more sense from every point of view - social, economical, you name it. [/QUOTE]
Whoa. Half a generation is in jail? That's insane and completely impossible. We already have over-crowded jails.
I would be interested to hear what you're going to educate and teach these kids that we don't already have in place... and how you intend on paying for this New Education. Sounds very Clinton-ish.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Although, in all fairness, even in the Karate school my daughter attends - and indeed in dancing schools, gymnastics, etc. - there are stage-parents who push their kids to the limit.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, my point. Where do we draw the line? At a certain activity? You can't do that. If a group finds something socially acceptable, you have to let them gather. If this were life threatening, the police would have stepped in a long time ago.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, my point. Where do we draw the line? At a certain activity? You can't do that. If a group finds something socially acceptable, you have to let them gather. If this were life threatening, the police would have stepped in a long time ago.
Yes, MagicalFM - I understand completely that a parent has the first obligation to look out for your own kid. That does not take the responsibilty away from society because there will always be 1. parents who do not care and 2. parents who are unable to give their children the start in life they need. If we want to break the violence routine we have to look after these neglected children and make sure they see another option in this life than hitting smaller and weaker people.
@ Microwave - you do not seriously believe you have a say in how your taxes are spent? I am older than 22 and I still have to face my first bully. It's because I live in a socially peaceful environment and not in a violent slum or a city with 40% unemployment. You have to realize that the symptoms are not the cause of the problem.
@ Microwave - you do not seriously believe you have a say in how your taxes are spent? I am older than 22 and I still have to face my first bully. It's because I live in a socially peaceful environment and not in a violent slum or a city with 40% unemployment. You have to realize that the symptoms are not the cause of the problem.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Micrówave wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]I have no clue what you are disagreeing on. [/QUOTE]
That you find it sad we have to toughen up our children. And then, that you think EVERYONE ELSE is responsible for raising our children. Let's look:
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]There should be more money in schools to avoid bullying and violence. [/QUOTE]
Well, in the US, voters decide if they want to raise their taxes to give more money to schools. They don't want to. And how is money going to solve bullying and violence? Private security for each student? Guess what? In my school, 20 years ago, there was a bully. In my Dad's school, there was a bully. In my Grandpa's school, there was a bully. And guess what? In adult life THERE ARE BULLIES!!! But you think we should somehow do away with them. Well what happens when you're 22 and facing your first bully? Not good.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Kids from poor families should get help from the community to enable them to make it in society with a good education rather than kicking and fighting. [/QUOTE]
And how does this stop poverty? It would only enable the poor family to keep doing what they're doing for some more free gov'ment money. Some kids really are striving to get out of that life. Unfortunately, they get sucked into the gangs or are killed out of jealousy.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]We could take the money from the ridiculous military adventures like Afghanistan and Irak which cost billions of tax money and do not get us anywhere.[/QUOTE]
It's Iraq. While I may agree with you on Iraq, we can't just walk out of Afghanistan. Just ask Russia. That is a problem that will continue until someone figures out a way to stop fundamentalism... other than sending more and more troops. Ignore it, and within 10 years Europe gets nuked. I'm sorry, Barb, I like you and your country too much to allow that to happen. Go USA.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]If children do not respect other people we should not accept that as a given natural development but we should teach our children respect for other human beings.[/QUOTE]
Newsflash. Children do not respect other people. This is more obvious now than ever. So do we take away any level of competition making EVERY CHILD special? Where then, does the concept of "striving to be better" go? Right out the window. So you would rather a child be a "Clarinet Player" instead of "First Chair, All-state Clarinetist"? Well, then, why even practice? I'm just as good as the next student regardless, right? Next thing you know, we have a generation of slackers. Oops, too late... we do.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's better to educate and teach young people than to throw half a generation into jail and pay for that. It makes more sense from every point of view - social, economical, you name it. [/QUOTE]
Whoa. Half a generation is in jail? That's insane and completely impossible. We already have over-crowded jails.
I would be interested to hear what you're going to educate and teach these kids that we don't already have in place... and how you intend on paying for this New Education. Sounds very Clinton-ish.[/QUOTE]
im gonna have to agree on a healthy portion of microwaves side here.
the one thing that has been a vicious cycle (at least in the USA) is that parents dont raise their kids, expect the schools to do it, but crucify the schools if they do happen to 'disagree with their precious lil baby'. its incredibly selfish to think that your kid is the ONLY kid that matters, regardless of others. later, life gives them a few sucker punches and they dont know what to do. so physically and mentally/emotionally, kids should learn how to defend themselves, not have mommy and daddy do it.
example (i might digress a little bit here) say your kid steals something, along with a bunch of other kids. its natural to defend your kid, right? well any decent parent would know 'hey, my kid did something wrong here, they should be punished!'...instead i see parents DEFENDING the wrong of their child. heaven forbid THEIR precious child does something wrong, but everyone else is at fault- in the first place, that kid should have had the balls to say 'no thanks im better than that' or own up to their bad decision, even if the parents have to guide it.
this unfairness is taught to the kids until theyre adults, and go into the real world expecting people to be on their side. its either a terrible wake up call for them, or they throw their tantrums and get their way. its has caused a severe imbalence on our part.
we as the US have become wayyyy too soft on our kids and it hurts them in the end. if anything, treat them like anyone else, and if they want ot be speical, they will do their damndest on their own, not by the influence of their stage parents. egos are meant to be bruised to become stronger, parents are there to back their kids up when theyre falling, to discipline them to stay in line, not play best friend, or use their children as prizes.
anyway, i like what barb has to say, and in theory it would make sense, but in reality, this is how things are, at least in the USA. we need to be recharged in teaching our kids to be respectful of their elders and peers. it will never be 100% but there was once a time where it took a village to raise a child, and respect was INSTILLED in children. now if someone besides mama does it, its horribly offensive. but can you blame eveyrone else? with how parents are raising their kids these days, they are GOING to be judged. nobody is perfect, and parents should know its ok.
*for the record i am not a parent, and i am not saying its easy to be a parent, nor am i saying that all parents are like this, but it has been proven to me, even in my own family, that this is how parents are raising their kids now, and it is getting on my nerves*
and dont get me started on the 'disability' crap...
That you find it sad we have to toughen up our children. And then, that you think EVERYONE ELSE is responsible for raising our children. Let's look:
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]There should be more money in schools to avoid bullying and violence. [/QUOTE]
Well, in the US, voters decide if they want to raise their taxes to give more money to schools. They don't want to. And how is money going to solve bullying and violence? Private security for each student? Guess what? In my school, 20 years ago, there was a bully. In my Dad's school, there was a bully. In my Grandpa's school, there was a bully. And guess what? In adult life THERE ARE BULLIES!!! But you think we should somehow do away with them. Well what happens when you're 22 and facing your first bully? Not good.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]Kids from poor families should get help from the community to enable them to make it in society with a good education rather than kicking and fighting. [/QUOTE]
And how does this stop poverty? It would only enable the poor family to keep doing what they're doing for some more free gov'ment money. Some kids really are striving to get out of that life. Unfortunately, they get sucked into the gangs or are killed out of jealousy.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]We could take the money from the ridiculous military adventures like Afghanistan and Irak which cost billions of tax money and do not get us anywhere.[/QUOTE]
It's Iraq. While I may agree with you on Iraq, we can't just walk out of Afghanistan. Just ask Russia. That is a problem that will continue until someone figures out a way to stop fundamentalism... other than sending more and more troops. Ignore it, and within 10 years Europe gets nuked. I'm sorry, Barb, I like you and your country too much to allow that to happen. Go USA.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]If children do not respect other people we should not accept that as a given natural development but we should teach our children respect for other human beings.[/QUOTE]
Newsflash. Children do not respect other people. This is more obvious now than ever. So do we take away any level of competition making EVERY CHILD special? Where then, does the concept of "striving to be better" go? Right out the window. So you would rather a child be a "Clarinet Player" instead of "First Chair, All-state Clarinetist"? Well, then, why even practice? I'm just as good as the next student regardless, right? Next thing you know, we have a generation of slackers. Oops, too late... we do.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]It's better to educate and teach young people than to throw half a generation into jail and pay for that. It makes more sense from every point of view - social, economical, you name it. [/QUOTE]
Whoa. Half a generation is in jail? That's insane and completely impossible. We already have over-crowded jails.
I would be interested to hear what you're going to educate and teach these kids that we don't already have in place... and how you intend on paying for this New Education. Sounds very Clinton-ish.[/QUOTE]
im gonna have to agree on a healthy portion of microwaves side here.
the one thing that has been a vicious cycle (at least in the USA) is that parents dont raise their kids, expect the schools to do it, but crucify the schools if they do happen to 'disagree with their precious lil baby'. its incredibly selfish to think that your kid is the ONLY kid that matters, regardless of others. later, life gives them a few sucker punches and they dont know what to do. so physically and mentally/emotionally, kids should learn how to defend themselves, not have mommy and daddy do it.
example (i might digress a little bit here) say your kid steals something, along with a bunch of other kids. its natural to defend your kid, right? well any decent parent would know 'hey, my kid did something wrong here, they should be punished!'...instead i see parents DEFENDING the wrong of their child. heaven forbid THEIR precious child does something wrong, but everyone else is at fault- in the first place, that kid should have had the balls to say 'no thanks im better than that' or own up to their bad decision, even if the parents have to guide it.
this unfairness is taught to the kids until theyre adults, and go into the real world expecting people to be on their side. its either a terrible wake up call for them, or they throw their tantrums and get their way. its has caused a severe imbalence on our part.
we as the US have become wayyyy too soft on our kids and it hurts them in the end. if anything, treat them like anyone else, and if they want ot be speical, they will do their damndest on their own, not by the influence of their stage parents. egos are meant to be bruised to become stronger, parents are there to back their kids up when theyre falling, to discipline them to stay in line, not play best friend, or use their children as prizes.
anyway, i like what barb has to say, and in theory it would make sense, but in reality, this is how things are, at least in the USA. we need to be recharged in teaching our kids to be respectful of their elders and peers. it will never be 100% but there was once a time where it took a village to raise a child, and respect was INSTILLED in children. now if someone besides mama does it, its horribly offensive. but can you blame eveyrone else? with how parents are raising their kids these days, they are GOING to be judged. nobody is perfect, and parents should know its ok.
*for the record i am not a parent, and i am not saying its easy to be a parent, nor am i saying that all parents are like this, but it has been proven to me, even in my own family, that this is how parents are raising their kids now, and it is getting on my nerves*
and dont get me started on the 'disability' crap...
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Lady Nyx wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
...we need to be recharged in teaching our kids to be respectful of their elders and peers... [/QUOTE]
It's really as simple as that and yet it's not happening.
It's so easy to look at our own kids and think we're doing a bang-up job, teaching them right from wrong, etc. And yet, someone else's perception of our parenting skills - as Microwave said about this kick-boxing thing - might be completely different.
I think I'm doing a great job with my kid - trying to teach her to care about people, animals, the environment and more. And yet, we're atheists, and so the backlash of that overpowers praise for anything else. There's no one right way, and while simple respect could do a lot to turn this world around, it's not going to happen anytime soon. Especially not in schools - not around here anyway - where no one respects anyone. They demand it of the kids and punish them when they don't receive it, but they never think to show the kids some level of respect either. Society in general seems doused with anger and self-absorption. I blame Bush. LOL.
...we need to be recharged in teaching our kids to be respectful of their elders and peers... [/QUOTE]
It's really as simple as that and yet it's not happening.
It's so easy to look at our own kids and think we're doing a bang-up job, teaching them right from wrong, etc. And yet, someone else's perception of our parenting skills - as Microwave said about this kick-boxing thing - might be completely different.
I think I'm doing a great job with my kid - trying to teach her to care about people, animals, the environment and more. And yet, we're atheists, and so the backlash of that overpowers praise for anything else. There's no one right way, and while simple respect could do a lot to turn this world around, it's not going to happen anytime soon. Especially not in schools - not around here anyway - where no one respects anyone. They demand it of the kids and punish them when they don't receive it, but they never think to show the kids some level of respect either. Society in general seems doused with anger and self-absorption. I blame Bush. LOL.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]magicalfreddiemercury wrote: [/QUOTENAME][QUOTE][QUOTENAME]Lady Nyx wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
...we need to be recharged in teaching our kids to be respectful of their elders and peers... [/QUOTE]
It's really as simple as that and yet it's not happening.
It's so easy to look at our own kids and think we're doing a bang-up job, teaching them right from wrong, etc. And yet, someone else's perception of our parenting skills - as Microwave said about this kick-boxing thing - might be completely different.
I think I'm doing a great job with my kid - trying to teach her to care about people, animals, the environment and more. And yet, we're atheists, and so the backlash of that overpowers praise for anything else. There's no one right way, and while simple respect could do a lot to turn this world around, it's not going to happen anytime soon. Especially not in schools - not around here anyway - where no one respects anyone. They demand it of the kids and punish them when they don't receive it, but they never think to show the kids some level of respect either. Society in general seems doused with anger and self-absorption. I blame Bush. LOL.
[/QUOTE]
XD
...we need to be recharged in teaching our kids to be respectful of their elders and peers... [/QUOTE]
It's really as simple as that and yet it's not happening.
It's so easy to look at our own kids and think we're doing a bang-up job, teaching them right from wrong, etc. And yet, someone else's perception of our parenting skills - as Microwave said about this kick-boxing thing - might be completely different.
I think I'm doing a great job with my kid - trying to teach her to care about people, animals, the environment and more. And yet, we're atheists, and so the backlash of that overpowers praise for anything else. There's no one right way, and while simple respect could do a lot to turn this world around, it's not going to happen anytime soon. Especially not in schools - not around here anyway - where no one respects anyone. They demand it of the kids and punish them when they don't receive it, but they never think to show the kids some level of respect either. Society in general seems doused with anger and self-absorption. I blame Bush. LOL.
[/QUOTE]
XD
Lady Nyx, you describe the problems very accurately, although I hope not ALL parents are like that - but what should be done about it? In my country schools are state business, not Federal business and we have very different solutions and very different approaches. For a long time the cities did not realize that education is not done at home as it used to be. They only start to realize that schools have to fulfill a lot of educational tasks that used to be naturally done in the families - mainly in big cities with a high poverty rate and high immigrant rates.
Still, the majority of families here are normal people with no abuse issues who support the schools and teach their children the basic rules of decent behaviour. It's a minority in social hot spots who causes problem but we should not let the children be victimised. The state/community /schools have to make up for such educational deficits, it' in all our interest that neglected and disadvantaged children are not left behind.
Still, the majority of families here are normal people with no abuse issues who support the schools and teach their children the basic rules of decent behaviour. It's a minority in social hot spots who causes problem but we should not let the children be victimised. The state/community /schools have to make up for such educational deficits, it' in all our interest that neglected and disadvantaged children are not left behind.
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME]
@ Microwave - you do not seriously believe you have a say in how your taxes are spent? I am older than 22 and I still have to face my first bully. It's because I live in a socially peaceful environment and not in a violent slum or a city with 40% unemployment. You have to realize that the symptoms are not the cause of the problem.[/QUOTE]
Actually, yes I DO have a say in how my taxes are spent. You see, they have "bond elections" where taxpayers decide how much of their property taxes go towards Independent School Districts. Since I am a homeowner and pay taxes, that's me. Then when the property is assessed, and the new tax rate applied, my tax bill comes and I pay my property taxes. BUT, it's not over then. Next, I go to a hearing to challenge my property tax amount. Takes about an hour. For three years now, I have successfully had my tax amount reduced. Therefore, YES, I DO HAVE A SAY IN HOW MY TAXES ARE SPENT AND HOW MUCH. (Caps for emphasis, not trying to be GB here!)
I don't believe I've ever heard of a city with a 40% unemployment rate. That's obviously not in America.
I hope you are prepared for your first bully. Like what if you get mugged at gunpoint? Will you be prepared for a situation like that or completely freak out? Me, I've been trained for things like that. I give 'em my wallet, shoes, and anything else they want.
Where do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Sounds like Utopia (Socially Peaceful Environment)
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME] It's a minority in social hot spots who causes problem but we should not let the children be victimised. The state/community /schools have to make up for such educational deficits, it' in all our interest that neglected and disadvantaged children are not left behind.[/QUOTE]
Oh my, that's completely the problem. The ol' "Not in my town" short-sightedness. Ask Parents in Columbine if their big mega city was ready for that high school shooting? This was a very VERY small town.
It is DEFINITELY NOT the (1) State, (2) Community, or (3) Schools to make up for "educational deficits"... that's a parent's job, otherwise you have no reason being a parent.
@ Microwave - you do not seriously believe you have a say in how your taxes are spent? I am older than 22 and I still have to face my first bully. It's because I live in a socially peaceful environment and not in a violent slum or a city with 40% unemployment. You have to realize that the symptoms are not the cause of the problem.[/QUOTE]
Actually, yes I DO have a say in how my taxes are spent. You see, they have "bond elections" where taxpayers decide how much of their property taxes go towards Independent School Districts. Since I am a homeowner and pay taxes, that's me. Then when the property is assessed, and the new tax rate applied, my tax bill comes and I pay my property taxes. BUT, it's not over then. Next, I go to a hearing to challenge my property tax amount. Takes about an hour. For three years now, I have successfully had my tax amount reduced. Therefore, YES, I DO HAVE A SAY IN HOW MY TAXES ARE SPENT AND HOW MUCH. (Caps for emphasis, not trying to be GB here!)
I don't believe I've ever heard of a city with a 40% unemployment rate. That's obviously not in America.
I hope you are prepared for your first bully. Like what if you get mugged at gunpoint? Will you be prepared for a situation like that or completely freak out? Me, I've been trained for things like that. I give 'em my wallet, shoes, and anything else they want.
Where do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Sounds like Utopia (Socially Peaceful Environment)
[QUOTE][QUOTENAME]YourValentine wrote: [/QUOTENAME] It's a minority in social hot spots who causes problem but we should not let the children be victimised. The state/community /schools have to make up for such educational deficits, it' in all our interest that neglected and disadvantaged children are not left behind.[/QUOTE]
Oh my, that's completely the problem. The ol' "Not in my town" short-sightedness. Ask Parents in Columbine if their big mega city was ready for that high school shooting? This was a very VERY small town.
It is DEFINITELY NOT the (1) State, (2) Community, or (3) Schools to make up for "educational deficits"... that's a parent's job, otherwise you have no reason being a parent.
But what about this:
[QUOTE]A Fort Worth boy remained in critical condition today after a television fell from a dresser and landed on the 2-year-old's head, police said.
The boy?s mom told police that she had been washing her shoe in the kitchen when she told her son to go watch television in the bedroom across the hall. She said she went to the bedroom after hearing a loud bang and found her son bleeding from his head and ears. [/QUOTE]
So who shall we blame here? Should there be a law against placing TVs on dressers? Should there be a law against 2 year olds watching TV unattended? Would poverty have avoided this issue when the magazine (instead of TV) fell on child?
No. This is not anyone's fault but Mom and Dad when they put the TV there. I'll bet they're busy safe guarding their house in the next few days. But it's time to stop looking for someone to blame and start "sacking up".
[QUOTE]A Fort Worth boy remained in critical condition today after a television fell from a dresser and landed on the 2-year-old's head, police said.
The boy?s mom told police that she had been washing her shoe in the kitchen when she told her son to go watch television in the bedroom across the hall. She said she went to the bedroom after hearing a loud bang and found her son bleeding from his head and ears. [/QUOTE]
So who shall we blame here? Should there be a law against placing TVs on dressers? Should there be a law against 2 year olds watching TV unattended? Would poverty have avoided this issue when the magazine (instead of TV) fell on child?
No. This is not anyone's fault but Mom and Dad when they put the TV there. I'll bet they're busy safe guarding their house in the next few days. But it's time to stop looking for someone to blame and start "sacking up".
I'd like to jump in here just a minute if I could.
First off, Lady Nyx hit the nail on the head. Just ask anyone here in the US who has ever worked around small children, and they will tell you that the problem starts at home. The children are not being disciplined in any kind of meaningful way, and not being taught. The reasons? 50% Both parents have to work in order to survive financially and therefore aren't there mentally at the end of the day, even if they are there physically and 50% parents who just don't care. They are too busy trying to be their kids' friends to be parents. I'm not even a parent yet, but I can tell you that parenting is tough business. When your child does something wrong, it is the hardest thing in the world to discipline them and make them cry and scream at you that they hate you; it tears your heart out. So, many parents don't do that, preferring instead to reason with the child (thus the concept of time-outs, make your child think about what they've done). Problem is, that doesn't work. Reasoning with a child is like trying to reason with a pet; children simply do not have the mental capacity to understand reasoning until they are nearly teenagers. I'm not advocating for abuse, far from it. But you have to punish children when they do bad things in a way that makes them understand that what they did was wrong; they won't like you for it to be sure, but kids have the attention span of a fly, give them a few hours and they'll forget. You aren't doing your kids any favors if you are sheltering them and coddling them and fighting all of their battles for them, as previously pointed out. And, to a certain extent, it is healthy to not tell every child that they are the best at everything; as Microwave pointed out, all that does is dumb everything down. For example, I was in 2 marching bands at 2 different high schools in my life. The first one was top ranked, top flight in the state. And there was NO "just let everyone in". You had to audition, and prove that you were worthy. And if you got in and couldn't keep time or march on the same foot as everyone else or didn't want to devote the time to pre-class hour rehearsals and all weekend marching practice, our director wasn't afraid to show you the door. Sure, it may sound cruel, but it made us work harder to stay there, learning the value of hard work and it's rewards as we became better and better and got more first place finishes. The 2nd band had the "new mentality" of everyone is as good as everyone else, let them all play! Well, that band sucked completely. Couldn't keep time? That's fine, you are still in. Can't march in step? That's fine, you are still in. Can't play the music? That's fine, you are still in. And it was the WORST band I've ever seen in my life; an organized catastrophe at best and a total embarrassment. Guess which one I dropped out of like a hot potato? And guess which one still gives me feelings of accomplishment and pride to this day?
About the money thing, it's not so much that Barb. The US has given a 5 fold increase in funding to education and schools in the last decade, and yet student performance continues to slump. Throwing money at the problem will not solve it. A community can pass a bond to give the schools more money, but once that is done your say over how the money is spent is next to nil, because the School Board distributes it. Where did most of the 5 fold increase in money go to? Not to education programs that's for sure; it went to salaries for teachers and paying health insurance costs for employees (which are skyrocketing here). More money goes into the system, but the same product comes out because all of the increase in money merely meets in inflation from year to year.
First off, Lady Nyx hit the nail on the head. Just ask anyone here in the US who has ever worked around small children, and they will tell you that the problem starts at home. The children are not being disciplined in any kind of meaningful way, and not being taught. The reasons? 50% Both parents have to work in order to survive financially and therefore aren't there mentally at the end of the day, even if they are there physically and 50% parents who just don't care. They are too busy trying to be their kids' friends to be parents. I'm not even a parent yet, but I can tell you that parenting is tough business. When your child does something wrong, it is the hardest thing in the world to discipline them and make them cry and scream at you that they hate you; it tears your heart out. So, many parents don't do that, preferring instead to reason with the child (thus the concept of time-outs, make your child think about what they've done). Problem is, that doesn't work. Reasoning with a child is like trying to reason with a pet; children simply do not have the mental capacity to understand reasoning until they are nearly teenagers. I'm not advocating for abuse, far from it. But you have to punish children when they do bad things in a way that makes them understand that what they did was wrong; they won't like you for it to be sure, but kids have the attention span of a fly, give them a few hours and they'll forget. You aren't doing your kids any favors if you are sheltering them and coddling them and fighting all of their battles for them, as previously pointed out. And, to a certain extent, it is healthy to not tell every child that they are the best at everything; as Microwave pointed out, all that does is dumb everything down. For example, I was in 2 marching bands at 2 different high schools in my life. The first one was top ranked, top flight in the state. And there was NO "just let everyone in". You had to audition, and prove that you were worthy. And if you got in and couldn't keep time or march on the same foot as everyone else or didn't want to devote the time to pre-class hour rehearsals and all weekend marching practice, our director wasn't afraid to show you the door. Sure, it may sound cruel, but it made us work harder to stay there, learning the value of hard work and it's rewards as we became better and better and got more first place finishes. The 2nd band had the "new mentality" of everyone is as good as everyone else, let them all play! Well, that band sucked completely. Couldn't keep time? That's fine, you are still in. Can't march in step? That's fine, you are still in. Can't play the music? That's fine, you are still in. And it was the WORST band I've ever seen in my life; an organized catastrophe at best and a total embarrassment. Guess which one I dropped out of like a hot potato? And guess which one still gives me feelings of accomplishment and pride to this day?
About the money thing, it's not so much that Barb. The US has given a 5 fold increase in funding to education and schools in the last decade, and yet student performance continues to slump. Throwing money at the problem will not solve it. A community can pass a bond to give the schools more money, but once that is done your say over how the money is spent is next to nil, because the School Board distributes it. Where did most of the 5 fold increase in money go to? Not to education programs that's for sure; it went to salaries for teachers and paying health insurance costs for employees (which are skyrocketing here). More money goes into the system, but the same product comes out because all of the increase in money merely meets in inflation from year to year.