> What I do note is that you approach "pop" and "rock" composing from a classical standpoint talking of writing guitar solos as though they are part of a classical piece.
Maybe, although it's very hard to tell 'classical' from 'popular' in absolutes. Moreover, the Queen case is different to 'regular' rock bands.
> You have obviously not spent long working with a rock band or you have little experience of the group
dynamics that exist there.
While that's true, the point stands: Queen members were independent composers, and they have confirmed that several times: four writers with very different songs. Things like 'what should we call the album?', 'where is the tour finishing?', 'what's the next single'?... were indeed discussed democratically. For things like 'how is the bass-line going to be?', it's up to the creator of the song.
> As we know credits for Queen songs were given to the one who came up with the original idea (all band
members have confirmed this)
Indeed. And they've also confirmed that the one who wrote the song got his way with how it went. They also said that he'd got it all 'mapped out', etc.
> Within a dynamic and opinionated band like queen it is likely that a rough demo would either show a basic (oftenVERY basic) guitar part for Brian to play around with until he came up with something that they agreed on or the composer would say "I need a guitar solo here, I thought that something like xxx would fit", maybe singing an idea or often just leaving it up to the guitarist to work on.
Or writing the whole melody. Same for other instruments.
> There's also something called ego (and none of the band members were short on that) that gets in the way,
Indeed, and that's partly why more often than not, the creator of the song wrote all parts for all instruments and vocals.
> Can you imagine saying to one of them, "ok I want you to play this note for note."
Part of the band dynamics implied that: 'when it's my song, they'll do what I want, when it's his song, we'll do what he wants...'
> The phrase "who's the F**king guitarist/bassist/drummer in this band" would have been heard a few times
Same with 'who's the f**king author of this song?'
> That's not to say it didn't happen just that it was more likely the exception rather than the norm
As the Roger list proves, it may well be the norm. Again, there are two important points in the discussion:
1. Can a person write for an instrument they don't play? YES.
2. Does a person compose everything in their own songs? IT DEPENDS.
People have discussed both points, mostly arguing that:
1. How can you write if you're not an expert? --> Already explained
2. The standards for classical music may not apply in rock --> True, but ...
Again, Queen weren't a band of four teens that strummed around three chords and had an improvised repetitive melody. They were four capable musicians who easily could compose for any of the four 'basic' instruments (i.e. all four of them could write very good lines for piano, bass, drums and guitar, and of course lead and backing vocals).
So, the standard applied in most rock bands (even if that's 99.99% of them) may not be the case here (same with, say, The Beatles, omitting the Martin contributions in additional instruments).
Thread
Posts in chronological order
I'm delving into baseless supposition here (!)
But I have a feeling John was more involved in the writing of his own basslines than the interviews and behind the scenes material would seem to indicate (in this thread at least).
Either that, or Brian and Roger (I'll get to Paul in a minute) lost their knack for writing bass lines when it came time to do TCR. There really is almost none of that lyrical approach to the basslines in the new work, whatever your feeling about the album itself is (I don't hate it as much as many people do).
Paul Rodgers, of course, fouls up my theory somewhat because he's there when he wasn't before, and is credited with some of the bass duties. It's also been said about the new album that it's very organic and jam based, therefore it's possible that they didn't spend much time composing the bass beforehand, among other things.
So I dunno, if it'd been a more craftsman-like effort on the part of Q+PR, maybe the basslines (what a thing to dwell on.. I'm getting old) would've had a bit of a flair to them. 'Lyrical', as Brian called it, and I think that's more or less the correct term for John's bass work in the past. It's the sort of stuff you can sing or hum.
Of course we could just ... ASK John! Who has the keys to the cellar?
But I have a feeling John was more involved in the writing of his own basslines than the interviews and behind the scenes material would seem to indicate (in this thread at least).
Either that, or Brian and Roger (I'll get to Paul in a minute) lost their knack for writing bass lines when it came time to do TCR. There really is almost none of that lyrical approach to the basslines in the new work, whatever your feeling about the album itself is (I don't hate it as much as many people do).
Paul Rodgers, of course, fouls up my theory somewhat because he's there when he wasn't before, and is credited with some of the bass duties. It's also been said about the new album that it's very organic and jam based, therefore it's possible that they didn't spend much time composing the bass beforehand, among other things.
So I dunno, if it'd been a more craftsman-like effort on the part of Q+PR, maybe the basslines (what a thing to dwell on.. I'm getting old) would've had a bit of a flair to them. 'Lyrical', as Brian called it, and I think that's more or less the correct term for John's bass work in the past. It's the sort of stuff you can sing or hum.
Of course we could just ... ASK John! Who has the keys to the cellar?
But the bass-lines weren't lyrical in songs like [i]Tie Your Mother Down [/i]or [i]I'm in Love With My Car[/i], which is (I suppose, since I haven't heard the album) the sort of music Roger and Brian are doing with Paul most of the time.
"Indeed, and that's partly why more often than not, the creator of the song wrote all parts for all instruments and vocals."
[/QUOTE]No way Sebastian. Too many suppositions here to be calling a statement like that fact. If you're using people's trademarks as it were to establish who wrote what songs, for example, Freddie wrote in Eb a lot, the others didn't, therefore it's a Freddie song, (not your words BTW), then how about a Brian trademark of A & A/D in both first and second positions? He uses that off the top of my head in Liar, Tear it up, It's Late, and most famously We will rock you. Are you telling me that Roger Taylor "wrote" the solo for A kind of magic? There is nothing in Roger's guitar playing history to suggest that he's capable of anything but scuffly, nice little leads. Now we're supposed to believe that he's "writing" a jazzy first lead, followed by harmony guitars coming from everywhere? Not happening. That's a Brian May solo 100%. And none of Queen's music, to the best of my knowledge was "written" in standard music notation. So how would Roger "write" a solo like the one in AKOM or Coming Soon or Rock it? Would he hum it to Brian, play it on a keyboard, whistle every note including the harmonies? Becasue if he didn't do that, he didn't "write" the part for the instrument. I can see having an outline or a melody that the other players can run with, and that idea could be construed as writing in the loosest sense of the term. But I can't see John Deacon "writing" out a crash cymbal opening for Need your loving tonight, anymore than I could see Brain May "writing" the amazing drums from Brighton Rock. As someone just posted, given the amateurish bass playing on TCR, that leads credence to your argument in one way: that if having an idea is writing (Freddie may have told John to play walking bass line in CLTCL), then they truly can write for "all instruments", but based on the efforts on TCR, they write very poorly without a pro palyer to bring it to life. [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]No way Sebastian. Too many suppositions here to be calling a statement like that fact. If you're using people's trademarks as it were to establish who wrote what songs, for example, Freddie wrote in Eb a lot, the others didn't, therefore it's a Freddie song, (not your words BTW), then how about a Brian trademark of A & A/D in both first and second positions? He uses that off the top of my head in Liar, Tear it up, It's Late, and most famously We will rock you. Are you telling me that Roger Taylor "wrote" the solo for A kind of magic? There is nothing in Roger's guitar playing history to suggest that he's capable of anything but scuffly, nice little leads. Now we're supposed to believe that he's "writing" a jazzy first lead, followed by harmony guitars coming from everywhere? Not happening. That's a Brian May solo 100%. And none of Queen's music, to the best of my knowledge was "written" in standard music notation. So how would Roger "write" a solo like the one in AKOM or Coming Soon or Rock it? Would he hum it to Brian, play it on a keyboard, whistle every note including the harmonies? Becasue if he didn't do that, he didn't "write" the part for the instrument. I can see having an outline or a melody that the other players can run with, and that idea could be construed as writing in the loosest sense of the term. But I can't see John Deacon "writing" out a crash cymbal opening for Need your loving tonight, anymore than I could see Brain May "writing" the amazing drums from Brighton Rock. As someone just posted, given the amateurish bass playing on TCR, that leads credence to your argument in one way: that if having an idea is writing (Freddie may have told John to play walking bass line in CLTCL), then they truly can write for "all instruments", but based on the efforts on TCR, they write very poorly without a pro palyer to bring it to life. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
But the bass-lines weren't lyrical in songs like [i]Tie Your Mother Down [/i]or [i]I'm in Love With My Car[/i], which is (I suppose, since I haven't heard the album) the sort of music Roger and Brian are doing with Paul most of the time.
[/QUOTE]
So it begs the question, what's more important; the author or the genre? Brian wrote [i]Save Me [/i]and that's some of my favourite playing from Deacy. I wonder ... !
Genre wise, there's a fairly similar song to [i]Save Me [/i]on the new album called [i]Some Things That Glitter[/i], the bass on that isn't really too memorable. I'll have to give it another listen before I go condemning it again, though.
[b]Sebastian wrote: [/b]
But the bass-lines weren't lyrical in songs like [i]Tie Your Mother Down [/i]or [i]I'm in Love With My Car[/i], which is (I suppose, since I haven't heard the album) the sort of music Roger and Brian are doing with Paul most of the time.
[/QUOTE]
So it begs the question, what's more important; the author or the genre? Brian wrote [i]Save Me [/i]and that's some of my favourite playing from Deacy. I wonder ... !
Genre wise, there's a fairly similar song to [i]Save Me [/i]on the new album called [i]Some Things That Glitter[/i], the bass on that isn't really too memorable. I'll have to give it another listen before I go condemning it again, though.
> Too many suppositions here to be calling a statement like that fact.
Not really: the thing's still: [b]you don't need to be a virtuoso guitarist to write very good guitar parts[/b]. And that's not a supposition. Many have done it. Freddie, Roger and John among them.
> If you're using people's trademarks as it were to establish who wrote what songs, for example, Freddie wrote in Eb a lot, the others didn't, therefore it's a Freddie song, (not your words BTW),
While that's an oversimplified statement, I agree that it's in essence the whole 'formula'. And that's precisley why I can be sure that Roger [b]could[/b] (and most likely did) write the solos for most of his songs, since they follow a similar pattern. Now, could Roger write the [i]It's a Hard Life[/i] solo? No, but that's not related to his (limited) ability to play guitar.
> then how about a Brian trademark of A & A/D in both first and second positions? He uses that off the top of my head in Liar, Tear it up, It's Late, and most famously We will rock you.
[i]Tear it Up, It's Late [/i]and [i]We Will Rock You[/i] are all his songs. [i]Liar[/i]... he's confirmed all of them worked together on it. So there you go.
> Are you telling me that Roger Taylor "wrote" the solo for A kind of magic?
No, for that particular one I expect to be a more collaborative effort, with Mercury's dominance. But then again, it's got [b]nothing [/b]to do with not being a guitarist.
> There is nothing in Roger's guitar playing history to suggest that he's capable of anything but scuffly, nice little leads.
[b]You don't have to be able to play a part in order to compose it.[/b]
> Now we're supposed to believe that he's "writing" a jazzy first lead, followed by harmony guitars coming from everywhere?
Which part are you referring to btw? The 'jazzy' thing, maybe not (but [b]not [/b]because he's not a guitarist), but the scalar solo is within all four's abilities as composers. The harmonies aren't *that* complicated (although they're marvellously executed), anybody with good knowledge to write vocal harmonies is also able to compose those guitar harmonies. And all of them (Roger, Brian, John and Freddie) were very good to write vocal harmonies.
> That's a Brian May solo 100%.
Noy 100%. Maybe 20%. Now, [i]Days of Our Lives[/i] is another story.
> And none of Queen's music, to the best of my knowledge was "written" in standard music notation.
Which doesn't mean it wasn't written
> So how would Roger "write" a solo like the one in AKOM or Coming Soon or Rock it?
He could tell Bri 'play an ascending scale, then reverse it', and so on. Or indeed he could sing it to him.
> whistle every note including the harmonies?
For harmonies, he coul've instructed him where to place them and all. Again, if he could do it on vocals (which he could), he could do it on guitar ([b]composing[/b], even if he wasn't able to [b]play [/b]them).
> But I can't see John Deacon "writing" out a crash cymbal opening for Need your loving tonight,
You don't need to be a drummer to create that. You need to have enough imagination and skills as songwriter, which Deacy of course had.
> anymore than I could see Brain May "writing" the amazing drums from Brighton Rock.
Considering the quality of the drums May programmed for his solo career (some of which were later on replaced hit by hit by Cozy and others), he's a very good (and very underrated) composer for drums.
> As someone just posted, given the amateurish bass playing on TCR, that leads credence to your argument in one way
According to that, we could also assume that John and Freddie wrote [i]The Prophet's Song[/i], since there's no song like that on TCR (as far as I know). The 'amateurish' bass may reflect:
1. That they didn't write more elaborate lines because they wouldn't be able to play them too well. But it doesn't mean they [b]couldn't[/b] write for bass. If Bob Dylan had been the Queen singer, Deacy would have to write much simpler vocal lines, but it doesn't mean he [b]couldn't[/b] write something like [i]Best Friend[/i].
2. That their music today is much simpler (see [i]TPS[/i] thing)
3. That, again, the quality of a written music is also relative to the quality of the performer. Would've [i]Killer Queen [/i]been a beautiful melody if The Clash sang it?
> but based on the efforts on TCR, they write very poorly without a pro palyer to bring it to life.
Which confirms the point above: if you've got only amateur bassists, you write amateur lines. But it doesn't mean that [i]Show Must Go On [/i]or [i]Teo Torriatte[/i] lines weren't composed by Dr May. And then again, it doesn't mean Freddie couldn't write for bass, since Fred's not involved in TCR.
> So it begs the question, what's more important; the author or the genre?
That changes from song to song. There's another important ingredient there: era.
> Brian wrote [i]Save Me [/i]and that's some of my favourite playing from Deacy. I wonder ... !
That particular one's got a very nice balance between 'lyrical' and 'rhythmic'. Judging by May's work on guitars and vocals, he'd got enough creativity to write that. Now, did he? Maybe, maybe not, maybe 'twas a bit of both. For 'The Game', their strategy was not to discuss too much into the details of what each one did. Now, for other albums (like 'Opera' or 'Hot Space', and from then on), the story's completely different. I expect some bass, drums, piano, guitars and vocals in the 'News' album to have a 'do it as you like it' component, rather than being too strict.
> Genre wise, there's a fairly similar song to [i]Save Me [/i]on the new album called [i]Some Things That Glitter[/i], the bass on that isn't really too memorable.
But part of it may be the fact they hadn't got a bass player to pull it off. In his solo career, May didn't write any vocal melody as demanding as [i]The Show Must Go On[/i], but it doesn't mean he couldn't do it.
Not really: the thing's still: [b]you don't need to be a virtuoso guitarist to write very good guitar parts[/b]. And that's not a supposition. Many have done it. Freddie, Roger and John among them.
> If you're using people's trademarks as it were to establish who wrote what songs, for example, Freddie wrote in Eb a lot, the others didn't, therefore it's a Freddie song, (not your words BTW),
While that's an oversimplified statement, I agree that it's in essence the whole 'formula'. And that's precisley why I can be sure that Roger [b]could[/b] (and most likely did) write the solos for most of his songs, since they follow a similar pattern. Now, could Roger write the [i]It's a Hard Life[/i] solo? No, but that's not related to his (limited) ability to play guitar.
> then how about a Brian trademark of A & A/D in both first and second positions? He uses that off the top of my head in Liar, Tear it up, It's Late, and most famously We will rock you.
[i]Tear it Up, It's Late [/i]and [i]We Will Rock You[/i] are all his songs. [i]Liar[/i]... he's confirmed all of them worked together on it. So there you go.
> Are you telling me that Roger Taylor "wrote" the solo for A kind of magic?
No, for that particular one I expect to be a more collaborative effort, with Mercury's dominance. But then again, it's got [b]nothing [/b]to do with not being a guitarist.
> There is nothing in Roger's guitar playing history to suggest that he's capable of anything but scuffly, nice little leads.
[b]You don't have to be able to play a part in order to compose it.[/b]
> Now we're supposed to believe that he's "writing" a jazzy first lead, followed by harmony guitars coming from everywhere?
Which part are you referring to btw? The 'jazzy' thing, maybe not (but [b]not [/b]because he's not a guitarist), but the scalar solo is within all four's abilities as composers. The harmonies aren't *that* complicated (although they're marvellously executed), anybody with good knowledge to write vocal harmonies is also able to compose those guitar harmonies. And all of them (Roger, Brian, John and Freddie) were very good to write vocal harmonies.
> That's a Brian May solo 100%.
Noy 100%. Maybe 20%. Now, [i]Days of Our Lives[/i] is another story.
> And none of Queen's music, to the best of my knowledge was "written" in standard music notation.
Which doesn't mean it wasn't written
> So how would Roger "write" a solo like the one in AKOM or Coming Soon or Rock it?
He could tell Bri 'play an ascending scale, then reverse it', and so on. Or indeed he could sing it to him.
> whistle every note including the harmonies?
For harmonies, he coul've instructed him where to place them and all. Again, if he could do it on vocals (which he could), he could do it on guitar ([b]composing[/b], even if he wasn't able to [b]play [/b]them).
> But I can't see John Deacon "writing" out a crash cymbal opening for Need your loving tonight,
You don't need to be a drummer to create that. You need to have enough imagination and skills as songwriter, which Deacy of course had.
> anymore than I could see Brain May "writing" the amazing drums from Brighton Rock.
Considering the quality of the drums May programmed for his solo career (some of which were later on replaced hit by hit by Cozy and others), he's a very good (and very underrated) composer for drums.
> As someone just posted, given the amateurish bass playing on TCR, that leads credence to your argument in one way
According to that, we could also assume that John and Freddie wrote [i]The Prophet's Song[/i], since there's no song like that on TCR (as far as I know). The 'amateurish' bass may reflect:
1. That they didn't write more elaborate lines because they wouldn't be able to play them too well. But it doesn't mean they [b]couldn't[/b] write for bass. If Bob Dylan had been the Queen singer, Deacy would have to write much simpler vocal lines, but it doesn't mean he [b]couldn't[/b] write something like [i]Best Friend[/i].
2. That their music today is much simpler (see [i]TPS[/i] thing)
3. That, again, the quality of a written music is also relative to the quality of the performer. Would've [i]Killer Queen [/i]been a beautiful melody if The Clash sang it?
> but based on the efforts on TCR, they write very poorly without a pro palyer to bring it to life.
Which confirms the point above: if you've got only amateur bassists, you write amateur lines. But it doesn't mean that [i]Show Must Go On [/i]or [i]Teo Torriatte[/i] lines weren't composed by Dr May. And then again, it doesn't mean Freddie couldn't write for bass, since Fred's not involved in TCR.
> So it begs the question, what's more important; the author or the genre?
That changes from song to song. There's another important ingredient there: era.
> Brian wrote [i]Save Me [/i]and that's some of my favourite playing from Deacy. I wonder ... !
That particular one's got a very nice balance between 'lyrical' and 'rhythmic'. Judging by May's work on guitars and vocals, he'd got enough creativity to write that. Now, did he? Maybe, maybe not, maybe 'twas a bit of both. For 'The Game', their strategy was not to discuss too much into the details of what each one did. Now, for other albums (like 'Opera' or 'Hot Space', and from then on), the story's completely different. I expect some bass, drums, piano, guitars and vocals in the 'News' album to have a 'do it as you like it' component, rather than being too strict.
> Genre wise, there's a fairly similar song to [i]Save Me [/i]on the new album called [i]Some Things That Glitter[/i], the bass on that isn't really too memorable.
But part of it may be the fact they hadn't got a bass player to pull it off. In his solo career, May didn't write any vocal melody as demanding as [i]The Show Must Go On[/i], but it doesn't mean he couldn't do it.
Interesting discussion, to say the least. But I have to agree with quite a lot of the arguments against Sebastian on this one. The lack of understanding for how a rock band works (and Queen were a rock band, no matter how talented they were) shines through somewhat.
But there's one factor that, to me, suggests that the individual band members input in their own musical parts were bigger than Sebastian states, and that is the fact that the playing style of each member of Queen often shines through in the way the parts are "composed" (which is a term I really don't like in this context, since much of what's played is improvised, although following a basic pattern).
The "Under Pressure" example is a good one. Although it's quite possible that Bowie "composed" the main riff, I would bet that the rest of the bass playing on that song is Deaky following his instincts and the harmonic structure of the song, and not playing a bass part composed by David Bowie. (And that's what I read into Deaky's statement regarding that song.)
But there's one factor that, to me, suggests that the individual band members input in their own musical parts were bigger than Sebastian states, and that is the fact that the playing style of each member of Queen often shines through in the way the parts are "composed" (which is a term I really don't like in this context, since much of what's played is improvised, although following a basic pattern).
The "Under Pressure" example is a good one. Although it's quite possible that Bowie "composed" the main riff, I would bet that the rest of the bass playing on that song is Deaky following his instincts and the harmonic structure of the song, and not playing a bass part composed by David Bowie. (And that's what I read into Deaky's statement regarding that song.)
Of course one's personal style's noticeable, but it also happens with vocals, and it doesn't mean Freddie co-wrote every single melody he sang.
Queen were a rock band, but many things they did weren't rock at all. And they had the particularity that all four members were songwriters, and all four members were capable of writing for the basic instruments (drums, piano, bass, guitar) and vocals (lead and backing), even if they weren't skilful players in all of them.
PS: Not 100% of rock bands work the same way. In Kansas, Kerry Livgren (amazing pianist and guitarist, but only an *ok* singer and afaIk he didn't play bowed strings) composed, note for note, loads of violin, viola and cello parts, as well as vocal melodies. So, again:
John Deacon, not being a drummer himself, could compose for drums (and did so).
John Deacon, not being a guitarist himself, could compose for guitars (and did so).
John Deacon, not being a pianist himself, could compose for piano (and did so).
John Deacon, not being a keyboardist himself, could compose for keys (and did so).
John Deacon, not being a singer himself, could compose for vocals (and did so).
Roger Tayor, not being a guitarist himself, could compose for guitar (and did so).
Roger Tayor, not being a pianist himself, could compose for piano (and did so).
Roger Tayor, not being a bassist himself, could compose for bass (and did so).
Brian May, not being a drummer himself, could compose for drums (and did so).
Brian May, not being a bassist himself, could compose for bass (and did so).
Freddie Mercury, not being a drummer himself, could compose for drums (and did so).
Freddie Mercury, not being a guitarist himself, could compose for guitar (and did so).
Freddie Mercury, not being a bassist himself, could compose for bass (and did so).
Queen were a rock band, but many things they did weren't rock at all. And they had the particularity that all four members were songwriters, and all four members were capable of writing for the basic instruments (drums, piano, bass, guitar) and vocals (lead and backing), even if they weren't skilful players in all of them.
PS: Not 100% of rock bands work the same way. In Kansas, Kerry Livgren (amazing pianist and guitarist, but only an *ok* singer and afaIk he didn't play bowed strings) composed, note for note, loads of violin, viola and cello parts, as well as vocal melodies. So, again:
John Deacon, not being a drummer himself, could compose for drums (and did so).
John Deacon, not being a guitarist himself, could compose for guitars (and did so).
John Deacon, not being a pianist himself, could compose for piano (and did so).
John Deacon, not being a keyboardist himself, could compose for keys (and did so).
John Deacon, not being a singer himself, could compose for vocals (and did so).
Roger Tayor, not being a guitarist himself, could compose for guitar (and did so).
Roger Tayor, not being a pianist himself, could compose for piano (and did so).
Roger Tayor, not being a bassist himself, could compose for bass (and did so).
Brian May, not being a drummer himself, could compose for drums (and did so).
Brian May, not being a bassist himself, could compose for bass (and did so).
Freddie Mercury, not being a drummer himself, could compose for drums (and did so).
Freddie Mercury, not being a guitarist himself, could compose for guitar (and did so).
Freddie Mercury, not being a bassist himself, could compose for bass (and did so).
I think that we have to start with a definition of what "composing" actually is. It might just be that we apply that term in different way.
For instance, if I write a song (and by writing a song I mean composing a melody, writing the lyrics and providing the chords, which is the standard way of presenting a new song in a rock band) and I tell the bassist "follow my chord structure. In the verse I want you to play mostly 8th notes, but in the chorus focus on quarter notes, and play in a higher register", does that mean I have "composed" the bass part?
For instance, if I write a song (and by writing a song I mean composing a melody, writing the lyrics and providing the chords, which is the standard way of presenting a new song in a rock band) and I tell the bassist "follow my chord structure. In the verse I want you to play mostly 8th notes, but in the chorus focus on quarter notes, and play in a higher register", does that mean I have "composed" the bass part?
Let's try this one:
John Deacon, not being a drummer himself, could compose for drums (and perhaps occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input Roger Taylor had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician.)
John Deacon, not being a guitarist himself, could compose for guitars (and occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input Brian May had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician.)
Roger Tayor, not being a guitarist himself, could compose for guitar (and occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input Brian May had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician. It's unlikly that a poor-ish guitarist like Taylor could compose difficult licks such as those played by Brian on Taylor's songs. Much more likely that Brian improvised them).
Roger Tayor, not being a bassist himself, could compose for bass (and perhaps occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input John Deacon, Brian May or Freddie Mercury had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician.).
Brian May, not being a drummer himself, could compose for drums (and perhaps occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input Roger Taylor had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician.)
Brian May, not being a bassist himself, could compose for bass (and perhaps occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input John Deacon had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician)
Freddie Mercury....and so on.
Not trying to be an ass, just giving an alternative and imo much more likely pov.
John Deacon, not being a drummer himself, could compose for drums (and perhaps occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input Roger Taylor had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician.)
John Deacon, not being a guitarist himself, could compose for guitars (and occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input Brian May had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician.)
Roger Tayor, not being a guitarist himself, could compose for guitar (and occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input Brian May had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician. It's unlikly that a poor-ish guitarist like Taylor could compose difficult licks such as those played by Brian on Taylor's songs. Much more likely that Brian improvised them).
Roger Tayor, not being a bassist himself, could compose for bass (and perhaps occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input John Deacon, Brian May or Freddie Mercury had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician.).
Brian May, not being a drummer himself, could compose for drums (and perhaps occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input Roger Taylor had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician.)
Brian May, not being a bassist himself, could compose for bass (and perhaps occasionally did so. However, in most case there's no way to know how often or how much he did that, or how much input John Deacon had. Just because someone can do something, doesn't mean they did do something, especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician)
Freddie Mercury....and so on.
Not trying to be an ass, just giving an alternative and imo much more likely pov.
One thing: John Deacon WAS a guitarist-that was his first instrument and he played very often in studio and as you know even live.And he was very good at it...
For example in Who needs You most of the guitars including solos are probably played by Deacy,most of the guitars in Misfire,he plays that funky guitar in AOBTD,he plays all the guitars in Cool Cat and so on ....
For example in Who needs You most of the guitars including solos are probably played by Deacy,most of the guitars in Misfire,he plays that funky guitar in AOBTD,he plays all the guitars in Cool Cat and so on ....
Yes, but he probably wouldn't be able to play a solo like [i]You and I [/i](not that well anyway). Still, he of course had enough skills to compose it.
> especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician.
The specialist player isn't necessarily the specialist composer. In Queen, the four of them were capable of writing for vocals, drums, bass, guitars and keys, and the four of them composed for vocals, drums, bass, guitars and keys.
> It's unlikly that a poor-ish guitarist like Taylor could compose difficult licks such as those played by Brian on Taylor's songs.
[b]You don't need to be a very good guitarist in order to compose very good guitar licks, solos, choirs, etc. In fact, as long as you've got enough creativity and skills as songwriter (which Taylor had), you can compose a guitar solo even if you've got no hands. [/b]Likewise, John Deacon, not a singer, composed beautiful parts for vocals; Kerry Livgren, not a violinist, composed beautiful parts for violin; Mozart, not an opera singer, composed exceptional operatic arias.
Part of the variety on Queen's arrangements is precisely because:
[b]The four of them composed guitar parts, even if most of them were played by only one of them.
The four of them composed piano parts, even if the more elaborate ones were played by one.
The four of them composed vocal melodies, even if the more elaborate ones were sung by one.
The four of them composed vocal choirs, even if many of them were sung by one or two.
The four of them composed bass parts, even if most of them were played by only one.
The four of them composed drum parts, even if most of them were played by only one.
[/b]
> especially in a band situation where it would be normal to defer to the specialist musician.
The specialist player isn't necessarily the specialist composer. In Queen, the four of them were capable of writing for vocals, drums, bass, guitars and keys, and the four of them composed for vocals, drums, bass, guitars and keys.
> It's unlikly that a poor-ish guitarist like Taylor could compose difficult licks such as those played by Brian on Taylor's songs.
[b]You don't need to be a very good guitarist in order to compose very good guitar licks, solos, choirs, etc. In fact, as long as you've got enough creativity and skills as songwriter (which Taylor had), you can compose a guitar solo even if you've got no hands. [/b]Likewise, John Deacon, not a singer, composed beautiful parts for vocals; Kerry Livgren, not a violinist, composed beautiful parts for violin; Mozart, not an opera singer, composed exceptional operatic arias.
Part of the variety on Queen's arrangements is precisely because:
[b]The four of them composed guitar parts, even if most of them were played by only one of them.
The four of them composed piano parts, even if the more elaborate ones were played by one.
The four of them composed vocal melodies, even if the more elaborate ones were sung by one.
The four of them composed vocal choirs, even if many of them were sung by one or two.
The four of them composed bass parts, even if most of them were played by only one.
The four of them composed drum parts, even if most of them were played by only one.
[/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Danne wrote: [/b]
I think that we have to start with a definition of what "composing" actually is. It might just be that we apply that term in different way.
For instance, if I write a song (and by writing a song I mean composing a melody, writing the lyrics and providing the chords, which is the standard way of presenting a new song in a rock band) and I tell the bassist "follow my chord structure. In the verse I want you to play mostly 8th notes, but in the chorus focus on quarter notes, and play in a higher register", does that mean I have "composed" the bass part?
[/QUOTE]
I shameless quote myself :) , because I really would want your opinion on this, Sebastian.
[b]Danne wrote: [/b]
I think that we have to start with a definition of what "composing" actually is. It might just be that we apply that term in different way.
For instance, if I write a song (and by writing a song I mean composing a melody, writing the lyrics and providing the chords, which is the standard way of presenting a new song in a rock band) and I tell the bassist "follow my chord structure. In the verse I want you to play mostly 8th notes, but in the chorus focus on quarter notes, and play in a higher register", does that mean I have "composed" the bass part?
[/QUOTE]
I shameless quote myself :) , because I really would want your opinion on this, Sebastian.
There's a thin line there... I'd say: 'no, unless you also tell him which notes to play' (or at least which pattern: 1-8-1, 1-5-8-9-8, etc). But, in the case the bassist picks which notes to play, he hasn't composed it 100% either. There's no right or wrong in this situation.
Now, something else: virtually everybody will add or change some notes in their own performance (just check a piano sonata made by four different players, talk about Rashomon!), which doesn't mean they've 'written' a new version of the part. Same for singing: Liza changed the melody for 'no pleasure cruise', and it suits her better, but the melody's still composed by Mercury.
Now, something else: virtually everybody will add or change some notes in their own performance (just check a piano sonata made by four different players, talk about Rashomon!), which doesn't mean they've 'written' a new version of the part. Same for singing: Liza changed the melody for 'no pleasure cruise', and it suits her better, but the melody's still composed by Mercury.