I'm not going to sway you Skip, as you're a big KISS fan, and shouldn't be ashamed about it. Unless you're over 14 years old :) For my money, KISS were fantastic showmen, average musicians (original lineup) and their demographic was the teenage boy discovering girls and hitting puberty market, with sexist, ridiculous songs and videos with no sense of wit in their writing. Fat Bottomed Girls and Lick it Up (to cherry pick) exemplify this. FBG is a humorous look at a young guy getting it on with a nanny. Lick it Up? Pretty straightforward, no cleverness. There is more musical genius in Bicycle Race (what's juvenile about it?) than the entire KISS catalogue. For the record, I spent 10 seconds and came up with this review for Paul Stanley as the Phantom. Here's a sample, many others like it ) not from KISS fans either as they'd have him being a better singer than Pavarotti.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
Obviously, KISS fans seemed to love Mr. Stanley as The Phantom. But with all rationalizations aside, Paul Stanley was nothing to sway your lit cigarette lighter for. At best, Stanley gave an inept performance as the disfigured man behind the mask. And inconsistencies in his performance - both vocal and dramatic - were often the blame for a rather weak portrayal.
Although displaying a wide vocal range, Paul Stanley ultimately didn’t have the sweet, hypnotic voice of a Michael Crawford, or the charismatic Irish tenor of a Colm Wilkinson. Possessing a hoarse and raspy voice, he often sang shakily and was constantly unpleasant to listen to. Vocal delivery was also skimpy on certain phrases and notes (such as the final note in the Finale).
In the dramatic department, his acting (or lack thereof) was mostly uncertain with rigid movements, and an awkward delivery failed to convey much emotion. If anything, it was this limited acting ability that made for an unconvincing Phantom, rather than a less-than-appealing and generally weak singing voice. More often, he seemed to be concentrating on hitting the high notes while trying to act at the same time.
[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
RE: their demographic was the teenage boy discovering girls and hitting puberty market, with sexist, ridiculous songs and videos with no sense of wit in their writing.
The same demographic Queen was trying to pry money from.
"Fat Bottomed Girls" is about the groupies that Brian and Roger were trying to bang while they were on the
road. You made it clear in your post you didn't know that.
RE: Phantom
You didn't attend the production. I did twice. You have nothing to say on the matter.
Freddie never would have had the stamina to play the role.
skip · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]andreas_mercury wrote: [/b]
i like lots of kiss songs but to phantom of the opera .. his performence was shit.[/QUOTE]
Exactly how many performances of "Phantom" did you see with Paul playing the role of the Phantom?
skip · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Sir GH wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]skip wrote: [/b]
Also false info about what is live and what was fixed in the studio on the "Alive" lp. FYI, "Alive" has far less overdubs than the cut and paste "Queen Live Killers".
[/QUOTE]
Nonsense. The producer Eddie Kramer has said the only thing live about Kiss Alive was the drums, while there are plenty of audience recordings of Queen from 1979 that match Live Killers perfectly.
[QUOTE]BTW, if you want to listen to something "fantastically juvenile" try listening to "Fat Bottomed Girls" or "Bicycle Race".[/QUOTE]
Bicycle Race is far more musically complex than anything Kiss ever wrote. You're really showing your ignorance now.
[QUOTE]I'd rather have Eric Singer be the drummer over Roger Taylor any day. Eric drums circles around Roger. That's why Brian asked Eric to be the drummer on his solo tour and to perform with Queen a few times.[/QUOTE]
I didn't know you were at the meeting. Tell us more, oh holder of all knowledge of things unknown to us peasants.
[/QUOTE]
RE: Kramer was wrong. I've heard many of the unedited tracks that were recorded for "Alive" and there's not much
difference than what appears on the lp. "Rock And Roll All Nite" is exactly the same. All that was cut was Paul's
longer intro to the song.
Kramer also contradicted himself on the VH1 Classic Albums - KISS "Alive" program, by showing an example where
Paul was off mic and that had to be fixed. They didn't record the lp in the studio.
It's obvious you know nothing about "Live Killers". That cd was nothing put a cut and paste job. That's why
the members of Queen hated that lp.
"Bicycle Race" - musically complex? LOL
RUSH' music is musically complex.
Didn't need to be at any meeting. Saw/heard clips of Eric drumming in Brian's band and with Queen.
He did an excellent job, per usual.
Try reading a book on Queen. Maybe you'll learn something someday and be able to carry on a proper
conversation on a Queen discussion board without making yourself look like the ass you currently are.
Holly2003 · Member since
Livekillers may indeed be a cut and paste job, buts as SirGH pointed out, there are many Queen shows from that period which are just as good, or surpass it. A strange decision made by Queen to do so much editing (and only one or two overdubs e.g. on Don't Stop Me Now) but hardly one that detracts from their reputation. And Bicycle Race may not be as complicated as some Rush stuff, but it is a work of genius compared to Kiss's juvenile 3-chord rock. God, they're shit. Total stank. Proof, if it were needed, that people will buy a turd in a box if it's wrapped in bright colours.
Matias Merçeauroix · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]skip wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]Sir GH wrote: [/b]
[QUOTE]
[b]skip wrote: [/b]
Also false info about what is live and what was fixed in the studio on the "Alive" lp. FYI, "Alive" has far less overdubs than the cut and paste "Queen Live Killers".
[/QUOTE]
Nonsense. The producer Eddie Kramer has said the only thing live about Kiss Alive was the drums, while there are plenty of audience recordings of Queen from 1979 that match Live Killers perfectly.
[QUOTE]BTW, if you want to listen to something "fantastically juvenile" try listening to "Fat Bottomed Girls" or "Bicycle Race".[/QUOTE]
Bicycle Race is far more musically complex than anything Kiss ever wrote. You're really showing your ignorance now.
[QUOTE]I'd rather have Eric Singer be the drummer over Roger Taylor any day. Eric drums circles around Roger. That's why Brian asked Eric to be the drummer on his solo tour and to perform with Queen a few times.[/QUOTE]
I didn't know you were at the meeting. Tell us more, oh holder of all knowledge of things unknown to us peasants.
[/QUOTE]
RE: Kramer was wrong. I've heard many of the unedited tracks that were recorded for "Alive" and there's not much
difference than what appears on the lp. "Rock And Roll All Nite" is exactly the same. All that was cut was Paul's
longer intro to the song.
Kramer also contradicted himself on the VH1 Classic Albums - KISS "Alive" program, by showing an example where
Paul was off mic and that had to be fixed. They didn't record the lp in the studio.
It's obvious you know nothing about "Live Killers". That cd was nothing put a cut and paste job. That's why
the members of Queen hated that lp.
"Bicycle Race" - musically complex? LOL
RUSH' music is musically complex.
Didn't need to be at any meeting. Saw/heard clips of Eric drumming in Brian's band and with Queen.
He did an excellent job, per usual.
Try reading a book on Queen. Maybe you'll learn something someday and be able to carry on a proper
conversation on a Queen discussion board without making yourself look like the ass you currently are.
[/QUOTE]
Bicycle Race is musically brillant. Nothing short of GENIUS.
tcc · Member since
[b]skip wrote: [/b]
Go see a KISS show this year. Paul and Gene
bring it every time. Brian and Roger
could never keep up the pace. Brian would be
standing there staring at his shoes and Roger
would be all out of breath.
KISS continues to rock after 37 years.
Queen died in 1991.
BTW, if you want to listen to something
"fantastically juvenile" try listening to
"Fat Bottomed Girls" or "Bicycle Race".
[/QUOTE]
This is a Queen fan site. The people here do not start the motion to run down other bands to promote Queen. However, when other people use the Queen fan site to promote the other bands and run down Queen to promote their favorite band, the people here will of course react unfavourably to such intrusions.
Why waste time trying to convince Queen fans in a Queen fan site that Queen is inferior to another band ?
Vali · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]tcc wrote: [/b]
Why waste time trying to convince Queen fans in a Queen fan site that Queen is inferior to another band ?
[/QUOTE]
Well said man. If he doesn´t get it (and I´m afraid he won´t) we´d better get out of this thread and go for a beer while he keeps building his Kiss minisite inside our Queen site.
mike hunt · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Holly2003 wrote: [/b]
Livekillers may indeed be a cut and paste job, buts as SirGH pointed out, there are many Queen shows from that period which are just as good, or surpass it. A strange decision made by Queen to do so much editing (and only one or two overdubs e.g. on Don't Stop Me Now) but hardly one that detracts from their reputation. And Bicycle Race may not be as complicated as some Rush stuff, but it is a work of genius compared to Kiss's juvenile 3-chord rock. God, they're shit. Total stank. Proof, if it were needed, that people will buy a turd in a box if it's wrapped in bright colours.
[/QUOTE]
I need to disagree with what people say is complicated....rush is a great band, but is their music more complicated than queens?...when I was 14 I would said hell yea!....faster Drums, amazing bass playing. they run circles around queen. As a 38 year old man I think it's the other way around. Bicycle Race in some ways is way more complicated than most of the things rush has done. name one band past or present that could recreate a song like Bicycle race or Bo Rhap.? Including cover bands....now, I seen a few rush cover bands playing rush almost better than rush. Rush are a much easier band to copy than queen are. So who's music is more complicated?....Oh, and bicycle race rules!....
Amazon · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]skip wrote: [/b]
BTW, if you want to listen to something
"fantastically juvenile" try listening to
"Fat Bottomed Girls" or "Bicycle Race".
[/QUOTE]
How are FBG and Bicycle Race juvenile? Are you referring to their content or their music? If you're refering to the music, I disagree as not only was the music complex but the skill level was arguably extremely high. If you're referring to the content, it's subjective, but I don't think that talking about fat bottomed girls or expressing one's desire to ride a bicycle is automatically juvenile. Not all great art need be about life and death matters. Much of it is about love or lust, such as FBG, or about less significant issues, such as Bicycle Race. BTW Bicycle Race is IMO amongt the best written songs of all time, so I definitely don't think it's juvenile.
The Real Wizard · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]skip wrote: [/b]
It's obvious you know nothing about "Live Killers".
[/QUOTE]
So where's your Live Killers analysis? We've all done one, right?
[QUOTE]"Bicycle Race" - musically complex? LOL[/QUOTE]
Yes, musically complex. You obviously aren't much of a musician (if at all) if you can't recognize the subtle complexities in the song. Note to self... there is more to music than the lead vocal.
[QUOTE]Didn't need to be at any meeting. Saw/heard clips of Eric drumming in Brian's band and with Queen.
He did an excellent job, per usual.[/QUOTE]
That comment flew right over your head. I was referring to your comment that suggested Brian preferred Eric to Roger. It was a SOLO tour, so he didn't take Queen members with him, full stop.
It brings me great joy to see you continue to spew your ignorance.
andreas_mercury · Member since
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OSf4QjfT18 [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]at 0:26 yes that is proof he is the greatest singer ever ...... sure thing my friend... i dont hate kiss at all but here is the man that must stick to his own music.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]and to people honestly ... stop arguing about music complexity if you dont even have the time to actually explain to the guy what it means because he does not understand you - it is meaningless to him ... if you dont do the math and show your calculating then you fail the exam.... until you actually explain to him what precisley is more complex in bicycle race than kiss songs, then you are just to blow hot air .... [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]rush is more complex than both in either way you look to it. not kiss, not queen ever had tracks with a drum part as complex as tom sawyer - and thats not even rush most tricky part. i dont live in the crowd to say "complex is better" okay, i like kiss, queen and rush all to different ways. but as far as complex drums go, rush wear the crown. [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
andreas_mercury · Member since
i double post sorry
Matias Merçeauroix · Member since
There is so much more to music than metric modulations or irregular patterns. A song doesn't necessarily need to be harmonically or rhythmically complex... to be complex. Those are just some of the sides to it, not all.
Take nothing away from Rush, they sure are AMAZING players... but it takes much more than that to "build up" something like Bicycle Race. If the song had no instruments, only the vocal arrangements, that'd be enough and it'd still be GENIUS. All the details on every instrument, every arrangement and how they all entwine. It's truly amazing. It's so much more than just pop music.
BESIDES, let's not forget that the same guy who wrote Bicycle Race, also wrote Mustapha, Jealousy, Let Me Entertain You and Don't Stop Me Now... and they're all on the same album. Most bands would kill to be able to write only one of those songs. And this guy writes 5 for the same album.
GENIUS.
Major Tom · Member since
Queen + this guy: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na8H1Sg0mfA&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na8H1Sg0mfA&feature=related[/url]
Maybe he´s more TM material?
lalaalalaa · Member since
[QUOTE]
[b]Major Tom wrote: [/b]
Queen + this guy: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na8H1Sg0mfA&feature=related]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na8H1Sg0mfA&feature=related[/url]
Maybe he´s more TM material?[/QUOTE]
You'd have to be pretty bad to be TM material. ;)
