Silver Salmon Thread

Rick wrote: It's 1977, without a single doubt. Roger used a completely different drum kit in the early years, thus had a completely different sound.

This song is on the same tape as Feelings Feelings, which is also from 1977. Also, Brian's guitar sound is very NOTW-ish. A plain, simple, hard rocking guitar in comparison to the more harmonic, synth-like guitar sound from the early years.
I would guess most demos from the early years had the plain, simple guitar on them too. Agree this is something that could be cleared up simply and easily by someone close to the band. But of course there's no profit to be made from freely sharing such info -- unfortunately Queen reps only post here to ask for information, not to provide it.

pittrek wrote: Oh my God people ! Have you ever heard songs like Cool Cat demo, or Pain Is So Close To Pleasure ?
I think Freddie sounds like "1972-Freddie" there too, but these songs were recorded in the 80's.
I hear absolutely no evidence which would allow me to assume that the demo runs too fast. Everything sounds like running in the correct speed to my ears

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No, it's WAY too fast.

It's got to be from the late 70s, listen to Freddie's timbre--identical to the NOTW era.

The youtube video is sped up around half a semitone--making Freddie's voice seem higher (like the early 70s). When it was corrected, you can hear Freddie's "real" timbre.

Silver salmon was recorded between 1973 and 1974. Not finished for Queen I but was originally going to be included on Queen II

I can't believe this is still going on..

Here's all the evidence to prove (not suggest - PROVE) this recording is from 1977:

-Roger's drum kit contains timbales, which he used ONLY on the NOTW album.

-Roger's drum style is greatly evolved.  He didn't use the "slightly open hi-hat with snare" technique in the early days like he did by 1977.

-The sound on Feelings Feelings and Silver Salmon is identical - mix, EQ, everything.

Even before Freddie's voice is brought into the argument, it's done.  Case closed.  Undebatable.  Next topic.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!" Obi Wan Kenobi

(I couldn't resist.)

Seriously, though, you may have convinced yourself, SirGH, but *demanding* that the rest of Queen Fandom adhere to your theory is ignorant, pathetic and silly. You're not going to win any supporters with that attitude that "I'm right, here's why and no further discussion is needed!"

Why does it anger you so that we're debating the possibilities? Why do you want us to blindly follow you when we're capable of drawing our own conclusions, which, as much as it seems to bother you, may actually seem different from yours? You have your reasons for believing the track is from 1977, but many of us, while open to the possibility, are not entirely convinced.

I'm waiting on an official confirmation one way or the other.

mike7 wrote: This song was written by Tim Staffel in the band Smile. This is a unreleased track from the Queen's debut album sessions. Therefore, it was recording about 1971-1972(probably)because the freddie's voice is similar to the voice of songs "goin'back" or "I can hear music".

There is that jam sessions entitled Feelings from 1977, in that jam session Freddie sings lyrics from both songs "Feelings, Feelings" and "Silver Salmon...."
CASE SOLVED

Actually, the tape floating around features "Feelings" followed by "Silver Salmon," both are argued to be from 1973.

The only thing people generally agree on is that "Feeling Feelings" is from 1977. I have not heard or been made aware of any recording claiming to contain all three songs, let alone one that can be authenticated as being from 1977. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: We don't know enough about the source of this recording to draw a final conclusion. All existing theories could be undermined by an official confirmation of the exact details of these recordings. Until then, all we're doing here, all we're capable of doing (despite how firmly held our beliefs are), is THEORIZING.

Questions I'd like answered are:

Who first leaked these three recordings?

What was the source of these recordings, were they planned to be featured at a Fan Club Con, like the Miracle Demos Medley, or were they taken from tapes in QP's vault directly? Or were they made at some other point?

Were "Feelings" and "Silver Salmon" edited together OR recorded together on the same tape?

Is the person who leaked them in a position to say without question what the sources, original or copy of a copy, was?

Answering these questions definitively would go far to clearing up some of the confusion.

Listen to Silver Salmon while looking at a picture of NOTW and it sounds like it fits.  Listen to it while looking at a picture of Queen 1 and it looks like it fits.

Sir GH presents better arguements than "Fred sounds young" and has convinced me that it's from 1977 until I hear/see anything more convincing.

Oh, and I agree.  If Queen Archivist chooses to participate in Queenzone forums, he should occassionally throw us a bone and settle a debate or two.

It seems he only comes on here to stir the pot or beg for information.

Where's John S. Stuart?

rhyeking wrote:

"Why does it anger you so that we're debating the possibilities? Why do you want us to blindly follow you when we're capable of drawing our own conclusions, which, as much as it seems to bother you, may actually seem different from yours?"

I'm not angry.  This is just a bunch of text on a screen.  What other people want to believe doesn't bother me in the least.  And I'm certainly not asking anyone to blindly follow "me".  It's not me who created the history.  I'm simply putting two and two together based on the information available to us.  Anyone is qualified to make informed historical conclusions, so I'm all ears.

But at this point all we have suggesting this track is from 1971 or 72 is a series of what ifs, and not a single compelling argument.  I'm always open to correcting myself, and I'll do so as soon as someone can prove that Roger used his 1977 News Of The World kit during a different time period.

As for the speed of the recording, it is indeed too fast which makes Freddie sound younger.  But the recording posted here was slowed down a bit too much.  The happy medium is there in the middle.  It was a slight misjudgment, but nobody's tampering with history here.  I'm a musician with absolute pitch, so I can instantly pick out when the speed of a recording is off.  This can greatly affect the aural appearance of a voice.  Just listen to Robert Plant on the studio version of The Song Remains The Same and then any subsequent live version, even from 1972, a few months after it was recorded.  He almost sounds like a different singer.

If I agree to share Assassin, Face It Alone and Victory will you guys agree to stop arguing?

No way man.  Forums are a great place to exchange ideas and learn, not to be complacent.  But feel free to share the tracks.

Regarding Rog using his NOTW kit at some other point: he coul've used it for Jazz sessions (which started shortly after the NOTW tour ended, and that tour included the Rototoms). And, if he didn't destroy the kit, he could've used it at any point from 1977 onwards (e.g. Game sessions, Works sessions...)

And BTW, there's nothing to categorically state that Rog used timbales ONLY on the NOTW album. Again, unless he had some sort of condition in which he'd implode otherwise, he could've used timbales at any point since he was aged 2 until the day he dies or loses control of his hand.

The fact there are no pix of Rog using timbales during SHA sessions (for instance) doesn't prove he didn't use them then.

So:

- It's not case closed.

- It's not undebatable.

- It's not PROVEN, it's only SUGGESTED that it probably comes (instrument-wise at least) from post-Races sessions (which could still cover Game, Flash, etc.)