Freddie's photos

It seems you pretty much misread what I said Darren.  I don't think people who are curious about Freddie's appearance in the latter years are in any way 'sick'. I think they're just honest. And there's nothing sickening about dying or death, and nothing about any loved human being at any stage of life that is unfit for a camera. If people personally feel looking or reading is invasive that's fine - make your own decisions accordingly.  Just don't be drooling your silly contempt over other people.

Freddie showed how brave he was by doing the Tatdool video only a few months before he died, the fact that he did not hide away is very inspiring as well, he literally worked till he could not work anymore

As for Jim's book, some of it was good but the latter half of the book was perhaps too much detail and should of remained private

Peters book was more about Freddie's every day life and probably more interesting because of that than Jims

Seriously, are there no longer moderators on this once-great site??

If there aren't, I'll volunteer, and believe me - my censorial axe will fall heavily on this so-called General Discussion thread.

FFS...have people nothing better to write??

(apparently not)

plumrach wrote: As for Jim's book, some of it was good but the latter half of the book was perhaps too much detail and should of remained private

Peters book was more about Freddie's every day life and probably more interesting because of that than Jims
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I found that the two books together worked together to make a complete person, like triangulation resolves a precise point. They covered an overlapping time period in the very same house from slightly different perspectives, which I thought was fascinating in it's way.  Though I agree that if I had to only read one, it would have been Peter's, largely because it covered a longer period of time from a presumably more objective eye.

One of the things people hate about Jim's book is that it can feel like a trashy tell all in spots. But I don't think it did tell everything private that was there to be told.  Mary said something one time that I'm going to have to heavily paraphrase - something like "I saw a man become incredibly brave at times, and at other times incredibly vulnerable", implying there were times of fear and emotionality about what lay ahead.  How could there not have been? Jim's later anecdotes did describe a man in rapid physical decline who had become dependent, but most of the parts that people object to still managed to somehow illustrate Freddie the fighter either being grumpy or fighting for some kind of control over his immediate destiny.  Jim never revealed anything that made Freddie seem weak in spirit or anything less than lionhearted, only weak in body. In that sense I still think he chose his revelations with love.

Still, I do understand the objections.  I guess I just saw it differently.

As far as I'm concerned, both books were cash-ins.  It turns out Freddie was right when he said he had only one true friend in the world - Mary.  The man spent his entire adult life keeping his private life private, so the books certainly wouldn't have been written had he lived.  His cook sold out to a tabloid in the late 80s, and after his death two more of his "friends" couldn't resist the dollar-signs they saw in their eyes either.

For shame.

Furthermore, Jim had an obvious agenda against Mary in his book, as he was clearly jealous of her getting Freddie's house instead of him.  Maybe this was Jim's way of lashing out at Freddie in death, by giving the public the one thing Freddie didn't want them to have - a front row seat to his private life - as deep down he knew who Freddie really loved.. and it wasn't him.  I therefore take very little of what he said at face value.  Good on Mary for her consistent show of integrity on this matter.

Sir GH wrote: As far as I'm concerned, both books were cash-ins.  It turns out Freddie was right when he said he had only one true friend in the world - Mary.  The man spent his entire adult life keeping his private life private, and two of his "friends" couldn't resist the dollar-signs in their eyes, as the books certainly wouldn't have been written had Freddie lived.  For shame.
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People don't get rich by writing one niche book as first time authors with ghostwriters getting paid as well. They just don't. Both men got significant inheritances. Other motives/arguments make much more sense than a 'cash in', which really doesn't.  Besides, if money is the alleged motive, Mary *really* wouldn't have had any reason to get off the couch and contribute to a book, so ascribing that to loyalty and integrity within the structure of your argument is entirely arbitrary.  

A lot of biographical works are written differently or not at all until after the death of the subject, making that largely a non point.  Freddie spent his entire adult life keeping his private life out of the tabloids - by surrounding himself with people in which he inspired love and loyalty - which is entirely different from leading a sequestered and private life.  Other than that he did little to keep his rather wild life private.   And again, I don't think you're adequately acknowledging what these books did to knock down the tabloid sordidness, that Freddie did abhor, as the official record.  I visited Amazon to remind myself if the Freestone book was ghostwritten and noted the editorial review at the same time: "The myth of Mercury's debauched private life is well and truly debunked by the man who was there throughout the toothsome showman's later years in this affectionate portrait." And there you have it.

and anyway, pietrek1994 is a new guy so be nice to him, or her, i dont realy know :P he or she is new here so be nice. we all were new her, sorry for butting in like this but i believe in rights (i know i sound like ive been someking something but im not, im a combination of hyper and tired) (and no i dont smoke. or drink. or anything like that)

Sir GH wrote:

Furthermore, Jim had an obvious agenda against Mary in his book, as he was clearly jealous of her getting Freddie's house instead of him.  Maybe this was Jim's way of lashing out at Freddie in death, by giving the public the one thing Freddie didn't want them to have - a front row seat to his private life - as deep down he knew who Freddie really loved.. and it wasn't him.  I therefore take very little of what he said at face value.  Good on Mary for her consistent show of integrity on this matter.
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Sorry...missed this edit the first time around.  There is no evidence for any of this, making it wild and somewhat cruel speculation. Both books indicated it was always understood that Mary would inherit the estate, not least among the reasons that everybody including Jim probably expected Jim to die of AIDS.  Regardless, Mary was his oldest friend and the only one among them with a family for whom the long term stability of a large home and estate made sense.   To me it was an act of not only love for Mary, but common sense and chivalry.  Jim got a huge amount of cash, along with land and a partially completed home in Ireland. He was set for a very long time. 

Your comment that Freddie didn't love Jim - not really - was unkind and almost certainly not true.  In fact I've always thought that Jim's main reason for writing the book was precisely that - to make it known that their relationship meant something, as much for himself as for any audience.  I have tremendous empathy for his situation, which had to have been painfully compounded his whole life.  First, his relationship was homosexual, which society still doesn't recognize in the same way even today 25 years later.  Second, his lover (the best title available to homosexual love relationships in 1985 Britain) is a famous person who is living in a time when coming out was not a viable option, so outside the smallest circle of friends he had to remain unacknowledged. Even in the home he was not treated with the deference a partner would be by the others that lived there, or Mary, for a combination of reasons.  And when Freddie died people with the power to decide determined that appearances still needed to be kept up, and Jim was shuffled back once again in the formal and final rituals of goodbye.  Within weeks he had to leave his home of five years, by his own reckoning well before he was emotionally ready.  Disenfranchised grief like this is profoundly painful and difficult to resolve.  If the process of writing the book and publicly declaring their mutual commitment helped, I'm very glad he did it.

And while I agree that Mary has generally acted with great integrity, that hardly involved taking a vow of silence.  We only know that the first phase of she and Freddie's relationship ended when he began to stay away from home overnight and for long periods in a way that was painful and confusing for her, and that they finally had an intimate conversation where he revealed he was bisexual, and that there were tears on both sides, and that she told him she thought he was actually gay, and that before all this their lovemaking had been normal, and a few other private and personal things, because MARY told us so.  She posed for some  nice photographs in various rooms in Freddie's house for a magazine article too, so we know what his furniture looks like because of her.  So, yeah.  Obligations evolve after people die, and sometimes love and honour means telling parts of their story.   It has nothing to do with selling them out.

P.S. Joe Fanelli was Freddie's cook, and he didn't sell him out.  That was some other trusted friend on the music/management/promotion side somewhere.

rhapsody8 wrote:

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Interesting that Freddie is wearing his ring that Jim gave to him in those photos.

Sir GH wrote: As far as I'm concerned, both books were cash-ins.  It turns out Freddie was right when he said he had only one true friend in the world - Mary.  The man spent his entire adult life keeping his private life private, so the books certainly wouldn't have been written had he lived.  His cook sold out to a tabloid in the late 80s, and after his death two more of his "friends" couldn't resist the dollar-signs they saw in their eyes either.

For shame.

Furthermore, Jim had an obvious agenda against Mary in his book, as he was clearly jealous of her getting Freddie's house instead of him.  Maybe this was Jim's way of lashing out at Freddie in death, by giving the public the one thing Freddie didn't want them to have - a front row seat to his private life - as deep down he knew who Freddie really loved.. and it wasn't him.  I therefore take very little of what he said at face value.  Good on Mary for her consistent show of integrity on this matter.

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Mary treated Jim, Peter, and Joe like shit.  Freddie would have hated her for that.
The three of them took care of Freddie at the end, not Mary.  Mary was knocked up
for the second time and would stop by for a short time towards the end.  She wasn't
caring for Freddie the way the other three were.  Jim, Peter, and Joe were Freddie's
family.  They knew it.  Ironic how Mary hated Jim and Joe, one a former lover and
one his current lover for many years.  Mary even treated Peter like crap.

Both books were interesting.  Both books took the shine off of Freddie's halo, a halo
that shouldn't have been there in the first place.  For all of the money he had the one
thing that he couldn't buy was love.  I think he found that in Jim.  Something that he
was never going to be able to get from Mary.

In the end Mary became the prisoner (she got Garden Lodge).  I think she got
what she deserved.  Joe passed away, but Jim and Peter were able to live
their lives.  Mary was reminded of Freddie 24/7.  I hope the guilt haunts her.

BTW, Paul Prenter, his manager, sold out to the tabloids, not Joe.

You only know that Mary started to see Freddie near the end because of what Jim and Peter said but Mary has said in interviews that she was there a lot of the time for him, yes she wasnt the main carer but that doesnt mean she did not care there is always two sides to every story and I still think Jim was a bit btter towards Mary, as it seems in his book that he had an agenda against Mary from the first time he mentions her in the book

At the end of the day if Freddie really wanted Jim to stay in the house, he would of got something done legally but he chose not to do that and it wasnt like any of the guys were left out of pocket, Freddie bought Joe a house before he died and we know that Freddie helped finance a house in ireland for Jim and they all got plenty of money in the will and dont froget all the gifts and money Freddie gave them throughtout the time they knew him, which shows how generous Freddie was

I think Mary was incredibly supportive of Freddie right from the beginning before he was even famous right to the end as well and from the interviews and things i have read about the two of them they both seemed to be very proud of each other and had a special bond and nothing could break that

plumrach wrote: You only know that Mary started to see Freddie near the end because of what Jim and Peter said but Mary has said in interviews that she was there a lot of the time for him, yes she wasnt the main carer but that doesnt mean she did not care there is always two sides to every story and I still think Jim was a bit btter towards Mary, as it seems in his book that he had an agenda against Mary from the first time he mentions her in the book

At the end of the day if Freddie really wanted Jim to stay in the house, he would of got something done legally but he chose not to do that and it wasnt like any of the guys were left out of pocket, Freddie bought Joe a house before he died and we know that Freddie helped finance a house in ireland for Jim and they all got plenty of money in the will and dont froget all the gifts and money Freddie gave them throughtout the time they knew him as Jim states in his book 

I think Mary was incredibly supportive of Freddie right from the beginning before he was even famous right to the end as well and from the interviews and things i have read about the two of them they both seemed to be very proud of each other and had a special bond and nothing could break that

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Jim had every right to not like her.  She treated him, Peter, and Joe like shit.  Making them
live in the mews was insulting.  Jim Beach and Mary couldn't get them out of Logan Place
fast enough.

I look at Mary as someone Freddie needed to keep around so that his secret wouldn't be revealed.
After they broke up she could have easily made life hell for him.  Freddie made sure that that wouldn't
happen.  He kept her around and she became his beard when out in public.  She got a "rock star's
wife" life out of it and he got to keep his secret.

The mews was hardly a squat now though was it, Freddie made it into a luxury guesthouse and Peter and Joe were both already living in the mews long before Freddie died

Maybe Mary was Freddies "beard" as you say and Jim did say once in his book that Freddie always took Mary to events where the press would be and Jim said that he knew that meant Freddie wasnt "in love" with him but Mary was somebody that Freddie trusted more than anybody else otherwise he would not of left the house and half of his estate to her, he still made sure Peter Jim and Joe were looked after

Whilst I don't like Jim's book I think its clear that Freddie was happy with Jim for the majority of the time they were together, Jim says in his book there was a few occasions where he was asked to leave after seemingly pointless rows but they always managed to patch things up, perhaps Freddie was testing Jim to see how far he could push him