Brian May to become Vegan!!!!!!!!!!!

I would see more reason in the whole thing if animals were considered equal to humans in other areas, but the fact is they're not. Animals inherently have lesser rights than humans, so it's kind of ridiculous, at least in my eyes, to claim that eating an animal is as bad as eating a human. Especially since eating animals has been culturally acceptable for thousands of years, whilst eating humans is fairly taboo.

[QUOTE] [b]tomchristie22 wrote:[/b]
Especially since eating animals has been culturally acceptable for thousands of years, whilst eating humans is fairly taboo.[/QUOTE]
Women were considered property for thousands of years too, and this was culturally acceptable. At least by men..

Our race, unlike any other, has the ability to make choices that go beyond basic survival. There are plenty of alternatives available to live a healthy life that isn't at the expense of other creatures. In fact, a fair portion of heart disease and cancer comes from animal products, and this is largely why more and more people are going vegan.

I totally agree, just because something has been going on for thousands of years, doesn't make it right.
Also, whether a living being is 'equal' to humans or not doesn't mean we should treat that living being with less respect and kill that living being. If we took that attitude further then we would treat other humans who we considered not equal to us in a similar unkind way.
We keep 'pets' and love them like members of our own family, yet think nothing of killing other animals. Yet, in some countries of the world the very 'pets' we love so much are considered 'food'. The world is crazy and until ALL killing is stopped humans will never be able to progress to their full potential. We really should be more civilised.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]tomchristie22 wrote:[/b]
Especially since eating animals has been culturally acceptable for thousands of years, whilst eating humans is fairly taboo.[/QUOTE]
Women were considered property for thousands of years too, and this was culturally acceptable. At least by men..
Our race, unlike any other, has the ability to make choices that go beyond basic survival. There are plenty of alternatives available to live a healthy life that isn't at the expense of other creatures. In fact, a fair portion of heart disease and cancer comes from animal products, and this is largely why more and more people are going vegan.[/QUOTE]

I lost the other thread I intended to get back to where you were all depressing me with your parsing of animal rights issues, so I'll pick it up again here. :). Setting Brian May and his abuse of people, civil discourse and science aside for a moment, let me ask you this: you compared me on that thread to somebody who might have noisily argued for the continuing exploitation or inequality of black people in a previous time. Or something like that. It's not critically important as my point is that you and others seem to think of the practice of eating the flesh of animals as something that a more enlightened society should eventually leave behind as a relic of a more brutal and ignorant past, just as we've left behind the kind of attitudes and beliefs that permitted slavery and racial inequality. You've mentioned the treatment of women here today as well as another example. We now treat the principles of racial and gender equality as fundamental and inalienable human rights in our own societies and have defined them as universal rights through various bodies that address these issues. Given this history and your choice of these shameful and wrong headed past practices as parallels, would you, or anybody else who might like to weigh in, similarly support the idea of a legally enshrined basic right to life for animals when society is ready for it? A right to be protected from murder like humans essentially? I would guess yes as you've chosen as comparison principles that we do not view as matters of individual conscience but as inalienable rights. Is that correct? Would you support that?

[QUOTE] [b]Jessica Rabbit wrote:[/b]
It was indeed ONLY after the great flood that the eating of the flesh was permitted and only because vegetation was not readily available.[/QUOTE]

WHAT!?!?!?!?!

Have you got fairies at the bottom of your garden as well?

Yes, ALL living beings on this planet should have a basic right to life. :)

Would it not then be incumbent on humanity to work towards a basic security guarantee for all creatures? Recalling that societies have gone to war over issues that are being held up as parallels and that we have imposed our will on mechanisms like Apartheid through economic and cultural war, should we not force animals not to eat other animals if all creatures have what you describe as a right to life? Imagine that we have developed technology such that a small chip can be safely implanted under a zebra's skin that emits a noise that lions cannot bear but that zebras cannot hear, for example. The technology doesn't matter, just imagine that it is safe and effective and can be adapted for all predator/prey pairs. We would of course replace the anachronistic, evil food chain stuff with vegan lion kibble, and that should also be assumed to be feasible and effective. Does that still feel right?

Good point. They do say that one day the lion is going to lie down with the lamb, but what is the lion going to eat? Practically speaking, the problem as I see it is that carnivores have short digestive tracts and wouldn't be able to absorb the meals that herbivores consume. And I hate to be silly, but what about spiders eating flies. Or do we draw the line at mammals?

Humans are able to replace the foods we would otherwise eat because we understand nutrition. Does that mean it is incumbent on us to do so, since we have reached a higher level of consciousness than the lion or spider? Maybe, although I'm not really sure about that at all at this point.

My own view at this point is that nature made the system what it is and therefore made the rules. I certainly didn't. In these circumstances I'm not going to feel guilty about the way it is.

But if there was an acceptable way for me to go without meat, I might do it. But the loss of such foods as meat in my diet is unacceptable at this time. Maybe one day when lots more people are vegans or vegetarians or if I change my view, then I will act differently, but I can't see me changing my behaviour in the reasonably forseeable future.

PS I spoke about my niece in my previous posts in this thread. Recently she has gone back to being a pescatarian. I suspect that this was motivated by the blowout in her weight since she became a vegetarian, although I have not asked her on this. I don't think she's all that happy about it, but ultimately I think she sees it as a case of putting her health first.

Maybe when she's older and making her own meals she will go back to being a vegetarian. But at this point, her parents are still often making two meals because of her eating preferences.

We humans are the ones on this planet who put ourselves 'above' other living beings. We should start with ourselves.............if we think we are 'superior' to other life forms then we should act accordingly and stop killing and eating other beings. It is not necessary to eat animals in order to live a healthy life, infact it is preferable not to eat animals if we are to obtain a healthy life.
Maybe some time in the future if it were possible to have this miracle 'chip' that might be a good idea........I don't know. Just because animals in nature eat each other doesn't mean we have to aswell. If we are so superior to other animals why are we behaving exactly the same way they do then? Animals kill to survive............humans kill for greed and because they have no regard or empathy with other living beings. We as a race really should have progressed further from our caveman ancestors than we have.
As far as your neice having weight problems while being vegetarian...........it has really nothing to do with her being vegetarian. What on earth was she eating? You can get overweight vegetarians you know. They eat a lot of cheese, butter, milk etc.......all foods that are not exactly healthy or slimming.
Being vegan is the healthiest diet there is.......I and many, many others are living proof of that. :)

"Women were considered property for thousands of years too"

And it's going to take a lot of hard work to get things back to where they should be!

[QUOTE] [b]Zebonka12 wrote:[/b]
"Women were considered property for thousands of years too"
And it's going to take a lot of hard work to get things back to where they should be![/QUOTE]
Is there a place where I can donate?

[QUOTE] [b]GratefulFan wrote:[/b]
Given this history and your choice of these shameful and wrong headed past practices as parallels, would you, or anybody else who might like to weigh in, similarly support the idea of a legally enshrined basic right to life for animals when society is ready for it? A right to be protected from murder like humans essentially? I would guess yes as you've chosen as comparison principles that we do not view as matters of individual conscience but as inalienable rights. Is that correct? Would you support that?[/QUOTE]
Generally, yes. I may need a bit more educating on certain issues, like deer hunting. Some proponents for this practice claim that the deer population needs to be controlled, especially around cities. If it's for the safety of deer, that they don't get run over by cars (or hurt humans who are trying to swerve away from them), then it's probably a good idea that the hunting laws are in place. But if it's purely for the sport and enjoying the antlers on the wall and the venison salami on a sandwich, then these frivolous desires should not be worth more than their lives.

I think, just like Brian May..........you'd make a great vegan The Real Wizard. :)

I hope Brian does not stick to this for health reasons. All the benefits attributed to a vegan diet in this thread are exaggerated. In fact vegetarians don't live longer than omnivores and in all likelihood is detrimental to most people. A healthy omnivorous diet is the way to go :)

[QUOTE] [b]Q NUT wrote:[/b]
All the benefits attributed to a vegan diet in this thread are exaggerated. In fact vegetarians don't live longer than omnivores and in all likelihood is detrimental to most people.[/QUOTE]
There is no shortage of propaganda from the meat and dairy industry to reinforce that view. But there is very little science to support it.

It is now undebatable that a very high percentage of cases of heart disease and cancer come from animal products.