obama confirms osama bin laden is dead

emrabt wrote:

 I’m pretty sure we have reached the end of this dialogue without resorting to childish “your opinion is wrong” type stuff, probably for the first time this has happened on queenzone since 2006. :D
======================

Hey! "Your argument is one of the most, poorly thought out, stupid things i have ever read" should count for something! ; )

I mentioned formal theories of moral development previously, and one criticism of them is that all our explanations for why we feel one way or another may in fact be post hoc reasoning for decisions that are actually reached at a gut level.  In other words, we may know less about  why we feel one way or another than we think.  It's kind of an interesting premise. Anyway, thanks for all your thoughts. : )

Hey! "Your argument is one of the most poorly thought out, stupid things i have ever read" should count for something! ; )
=========================

Hey! I'm allowed to pick and choose what posts I remember and what I don't, if I have the full history then it’s harder to twist things and make myself right.

====================
I mentioned formal theories of moral development previously, we may know less about why we feel one way or another than we think. It's kind of an interesting premise.
============================

It is interesting, to be honest I’ve never really thought about why I feel something’s are justifiable while others aren’t, especially as me own view rarely match up to others.

===========
Anyway, thanks for all your thoughts. : )
=============

You’re welcome.

[QUOTE]
ThomasQuinn wrote:
ParisNair wrote: What we Indians knew all along, the worl realizes now. Pakistanis a untrustworthy lot. America gifted billions every year to Pakistan and they spent it on "fighting terror" by supplying arms and ammunition to the terrorists. And while looked high and low for osama, turned out he was enjoying the hospitality to the common friend.
==== 
Sure, take this opportunity to spew your gall and incite ethnic hatred. Of course, it's every Pakistani's fault that Bin Laden lived in a compound near Islamabad. And sure, because their secret service is untrustworthy, every Pakistani is too. NEWSFLASH: there are *no* decent people in *any* intelligence agency *anywhere* in the world. Nor are intelligence agencies very competent. We like to think so, and they like us to think so, but they are not. Odds are, they really didn't know.

The fact that you are abusing this to be racist about Pakistanis just shows what kind of unpleasant creature you are yourself.
[/QUOTE]

Hey..is it possible to be racist against your own race? We Indians (those from the Northern part of the country) and most Pakistanis are the same race. When people are angry about the Iraq or Afghanistan war / situation, more often than not they put the blame on "Americans", not "American govt" or "American forces". I used the term Pakistanis in a similar way. I suppose in a verbal conversation you would have got the proper context...I work with a lot of Pakistanis (and many other nationalities) on a very regular basis, and am friends with a few as well. We share  common/similar languages (Hindi-Urdu) and discuss cricket casually. However, I have avoided political discussions with them, because of my very strong anti-Pakistan emotions as far as politics and history is concerned (I think we shud nuke the bloody Pakis :-D ). I discuss politics with my American colleagues a lot and those have indeed been very interesting.

Anyway, please refrain from personal remarks about someone you donot know at all. It makes you look immature, which I have never felt about you from all your various posts I have read before this.

About the intelligence failure - I cant and I don't believe ISI did not know about Osama's presence in Pakistan.

[QUOTE]
GratefulFan wrote:
ParisNair wrote: What we Indians knew all along, the worl realizes now. Pakistanis a untrustworthy lot. America gifted billions every year to Pakistan and they spent it on "fighting terror" by supplying arms and ammunition to the terrorists. And while looked high and low for osama, turned out he was enjoying the hospitality to the common friend.
======================== 
Anybody who doesn't like the tone of this should check it against some of the anti-American sentiment in this thread.  In both cases there is some truth and some history there, but  there is also glib oversimplification in service of beliefs established long before.
[/QUOTE]
Somehow it is always OK to be anti-American. But talk against some other nationality and you are racist.

And I stick to my statement, that the "Pakistani establishment" is untrustworthy. The Americans have stated so themselves in no unclear terms, doubtless from their experiences over the past several years during the "War on Terror". It is also well known fact, not "beliefs established long before", that Pakistan is the training center for terrorists from all over the world. America has been raiding the mountainous regions of Pakistan over and over again in the last many years trying to neutralize the training camps.

First it was "Pakistani's" taken as a "lot", now it's the "Pakistani establishment". It seems to me that you're chickening out because you realize you've gone too far with your ethnic bigotry. Of course the Pakistani leadership sucks. So does the Indian leadership, in case you've failed to notice. Almost every country in the world is led by corrupt and incompetent idiots. What *you* were saying, however, is that Pakistani's as a people are untrustworthy, and you know damn well you did.

ParisNair wrote:  Somehow it is always OK to be anti-American. But talk against some other nationality and you are racist. And I stick to my statement, that the "Pakistani establishment" is untrustworthy. The Americans have stated so themselves in no unclear terms, doubtless from their experiences over the past several years during the "War on Terror". It is also well known fact, not "beliefs established long before", that Pakistan is the training center for terrorists from all over the world. America has been raiding the mountainous regions of Pakistan over and over again in the last many years trying to neutralize the training camps. ======================================= Pakistan is in a situation driven largely by terror supporting policies both past and present, that is true.  But since the terror has been turned inward and against the state the Pakistani people are also in a genuinely complex mess for which there is no clear or immediate answer.  Talking about any group of people or any nation in an all inclusive,  sweeping and disparaging way is unlikely to get anybody much respect unfortunately, unless you're talking to the already like minded.  I understand India's unique history with Pakistan, but using racial epithets like 'Pakis' and joking about nuking them all is just not going to register that well with many in the rest of the world.  Most of us don't live with that kind of tension and havoc at and within our borders and just don't have the frame of reference to understand it as anything much more than racism, rightly or wrongly.  "The Pakistani establishment" is a different thing than the Pakistani people as a whole, and had you started with that you probably wouldn't have gotten the same reaction. I read this the other day, and thought it interesting: High Noon in Pakistan

interesting anagram.

osama bin laden

=

lob da man in sea

Yes I hate Pakistan government.
 No I don't love Pakistan people.

Racism has got nothing to do with it.

It doesn't make you a bad guy, but it likely doesn't make you right either.  In these seemingly intractable ethnopolitical and religious conflicts somebody somewhere must see the fundamental flaw in hating (or 'not loving') 170,000,000 or so people you've never met. I guess for now at least it's not you, and that's OK.  I'm sure there are a lot of things I can't understand from the comfort of half way around the world.