The Real Wizard
Great posts, man.
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Posts in chronological order
Costa86
What kind of puzzles me is how Jim never knew about Freddie getting tested for HIV in 1985 and/or 1986, and receiving multiple results which showed he was HIV positive. What does that say about Freddie's relationship with him - that he would not tell him he was HIV positive, but only let him known in 1987 when he developed full-blown AIDS?
Jim's book was a bit too revealing. I just finished reading Lesley-Ann Jones' biography of Freddie, and found it more dignified than Jim's (it's also a good read, because it includes numerous tidbits of misc info on rock bands of the day). The only person who gave sleazy details about Freddie in Jones' book was Barbara Valentin.
So we have two people, Jim and Barbara, Freddie's lovers, who revealed things about him which Mary, his true love, would never reveal.
Jim's book was a bit too revealing. I just finished reading Lesley-Ann Jones' biography of Freddie, and found it more dignified than Jim's (it's also a good read, because it includes numerous tidbits of misc info on rock bands of the day). The only person who gave sleazy details about Freddie in Jones' book was Barbara Valentin.
So we have two people, Jim and Barbara, Freddie's lovers, who revealed things about him which Mary, his true love, would never reveal.
Martin Packer
I felt at the time (1986) Freddie had a much more serious demeanour throughout the Magic Tour (and I was at Knebworth so some of that was direct).
And my understanding of why is reinforced by this thread.
And my understanding of why is reinforced by this thread.
malicedoom
For whatever reason, I've never considered Hutton's book sleazy or exploitative.
But maybe that's just me.
But maybe that's just me.
tomchristie22
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
So - Freddie tells Mary first, and he gives her his house after death.
Hutton finds out at least a year after the fact (yet he still thinks he was first - funny that), and just gets a few bucks in the will.
[/QUOTE]
Didn't Mary say on that radio show that Freddie kept it from her for about a year, lying and saying he came up HIV negative? If so, where would that place her finding out in relation to Jim finding out?
So - Freddie tells Mary first, and he gives her his house after death.
Hutton finds out at least a year after the fact (yet he still thinks he was first - funny that), and just gets a few bucks in the will.
[/QUOTE]
Didn't Mary say on that radio show that Freddie kept it from her for about a year, lying and saying he came up HIV negative? If so, where would that place her finding out in relation to Jim finding out?
luthorn
[QUOTE] [b]tomchristie22 wrote:[/b]
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
So - Freddie tells Mary first, and he gives her his house after death.
Hutton finds out at least a year after the fact (yet he still thinks he was first - funny that), and just gets a few bucks in the will.
[/QUOTE]
Didn't Mary say on that radio show that Freddie kept it from her for about a year, lying and saying he came up HIV negative? If so, where would that place her finding out in relation to Jim finding out?[/QUOTE]
In the BBC documentary she clearly states that she knew Knebworth was last and also back stage she and Freddie exchanged glances, as if to state non-verbally 'it's over'. In theory, if she knew at the end of the concert, than we can assume she found out about the HIV status no later than the end of band playing God Save the Queen. If the statement about being lied to for 1 year is in fact correct then again Freddie knew, in theory, as early as August 1985. If she found out as the Magic Tour was being planned in early-mid 1986 then Freddie must have found out, in theory, Jan-June 1985. We could probably push it to mid 1984 if we tried.
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
So - Freddie tells Mary first, and he gives her his house after death.
Hutton finds out at least a year after the fact (yet he still thinks he was first - funny that), and just gets a few bucks in the will.
[/QUOTE]
Didn't Mary say on that radio show that Freddie kept it from her for about a year, lying and saying he came up HIV negative? If so, where would that place her finding out in relation to Jim finding out?[/QUOTE]
In the BBC documentary she clearly states that she knew Knebworth was last and also back stage she and Freddie exchanged glances, as if to state non-verbally 'it's over'. In theory, if she knew at the end of the concert, than we can assume she found out about the HIV status no later than the end of band playing God Save the Queen. If the statement about being lied to for 1 year is in fact correct then again Freddie knew, in theory, as early as August 1985. If she found out as the Magic Tour was being planned in early-mid 1986 then Freddie must have found out, in theory, Jan-June 1985. We could probably push it to mid 1984 if we tried.
luthorn
[QUOTE] [b]miraclesteinway wrote:[/b]
Let's not forget one thing though - at the time Freddie died, he probably thought Jim had months or at best a couple of years to live, so felt that the amount left to him was proportionate, whereas he probably thought Mary would reach old age. Well, Mary is still alive thankfully, but Jim (also thankfully) lasted another 18 years and if he didn't smoke would probably still be alive. There was no accounting for that in 1991 because then, to catch HIV was to get AIDS and die.
Strange that there are many people who were infected at the same time as Freddie who are still alive today, and of course many many more who aren't. I guess it's just the luck of the draw isn't it.
[/QUOTE]
We do not know when 'at the same time as Freddie' was. If he was infected in 1985, together with Jim, maybe he would have lived. If he was infected when he hit the New York gay scene in mid-late 1970s and 'slut himself', as he himself put it, than no, none of those people are alive today, aside from maybe 1 or 2 genetic freaks.
Also, HIV has various strains that further mutate once present within one's body. The HIV in the kidney may be totally different than one in brain, due to mutation alone. Given Freddie was a slut, let's face it, he most likely slept with multiple HIV carriers not only trading various HIV strains, but also mutations within those strains from individuals he slept with. In other words, he was a walking cesspool of multiple mutations, which accelerated the demise.
Let's not forget one thing though - at the time Freddie died, he probably thought Jim had months or at best a couple of years to live, so felt that the amount left to him was proportionate, whereas he probably thought Mary would reach old age. Well, Mary is still alive thankfully, but Jim (also thankfully) lasted another 18 years and if he didn't smoke would probably still be alive. There was no accounting for that in 1991 because then, to catch HIV was to get AIDS and die.
Strange that there are many people who were infected at the same time as Freddie who are still alive today, and of course many many more who aren't. I guess it's just the luck of the draw isn't it.
[/QUOTE]
We do not know when 'at the same time as Freddie' was. If he was infected in 1985, together with Jim, maybe he would have lived. If he was infected when he hit the New York gay scene in mid-late 1970s and 'slut himself', as he himself put it, than no, none of those people are alive today, aside from maybe 1 or 2 genetic freaks.
Also, HIV has various strains that further mutate once present within one's body. The HIV in the kidney may be totally different than one in brain, due to mutation alone. Given Freddie was a slut, let's face it, he most likely slept with multiple HIV carriers not only trading various HIV strains, but also mutations within those strains from individuals he slept with. In other words, he was a walking cesspool of multiple mutations, which accelerated the demise.
miraclesteinway
OK, we don't know exactly when Freddie was infected, but we do know that some of the people from the first wave epidemic are still here. The San Francisco Epidemic started to explode in 1981 according to the film 'We Were Here' which was made in 2011.
In 2011, certainly, some of the people infected at that time were alive to give interviews.
In 2011, certainly, some of the people infected at that time were alive to give interviews.
Supersonic_Man89
What i don't understand with the theory that Freddie KNEW before April 1987 is that he never told Jim, which i think is a horrible and selfish thing to do, and i don't believe Freddie would do that.
In my opinion, if i had to guess during 1986 Freddie felt he may have it, but did not know for certain. It was just a feeling rather than any symptoms.
In my opinion, if i had to guess during 1986 Freddie felt he may have it, but did not know for certain. It was just a feeling rather than any symptoms.
user1
luthorns statement is right, I think.
Peter Ambacher (famous as "Miss Piggy") stated in 2011:
"Out of the 35 people around Winnie (Winfried Kirchberger), only 2 are still alive"
http://www.focus.de/kultur/musik/tid-24267/zum-20-todestag-von-freddie-mercury-von-den-35-leuten-sind-nur-noch-zwei-am-leben_aid_687146.html
Peter Ambacher (famous as "Miss Piggy") stated in 2011:
"Out of the 35 people around Winnie (Winfried Kirchberger), only 2 are still alive"
http://www.focus.de/kultur/musik/tid-24267/zum-20-todestag-von-freddie-mercury-von-den-35-leuten-sind-nur-noch-zwei-am-leben_aid_687146.html
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]Supersonic_Man89 wrote:[/b]
What i don't understand with the theory that Freddie KNEW before April 1987 is that he never told Jim, which i think is a horrible and selfish thing to do, and i don't believe Freddie would do that.
In my opinion, if i had to guess during 1986 Freddie felt he may have it, but did not know for certain. It was just a feeling rather than any symptoms. [/QUOTE]
That actually brings up an interesting and potentially gruesome point to the fore. So methinks the discussion should end here. We weren't there and don't know who knew what when, so before this descends into an abyss of some sort, let's call it a day and declare that we don't know and never will know certain things.
What i don't understand with the theory that Freddie KNEW before April 1987 is that he never told Jim, which i think is a horrible and selfish thing to do, and i don't believe Freddie would do that.
In my opinion, if i had to guess during 1986 Freddie felt he may have it, but did not know for certain. It was just a feeling rather than any symptoms. [/QUOTE]
That actually brings up an interesting and potentially gruesome point to the fore. So methinks the discussion should end here. We weren't there and don't know who knew what when, so before this descends into an abyss of some sort, let's call it a day and declare that we don't know and never will know certain things.
Ozz
[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
So - Freddie tells Mary first, and he gives her his house after death.
Hutton finds out at least a year after the fact (yet he still thinks he was first - funny that), and just gets a few bucks in the will.
Hutton writes tell-all book. Mary doesn't.
And there are people who still wonder who Freddie loved and trusted the most, when all the signs are clearly there.
[/QUOTE]
You need to put things in perspective.
In 1986, Freddie knew Jim for like a year. He probably had not a clue if he would be permanent in his life. He even though Jim would leave him after telling him about the AIDS.
In the other hand, Mary has been a loyal friend for more than a decade.
So that doesn't mean that he didn't loved or trusted Jim at the end. The circunstances in his relationship with both were different in 1986.
Let's not fall in the whole denial about freddie's sexual inclinations, just because the whole Freddie-Mary thing is a comfortable tale.
I can see why Jim put that book out. he probably felt pretty pissed about the place Mary gain after Freddie's death. He was human after all.
Now let me make a bold statement (crazy theory).
What if Freddie gave half of his fortune to Mary because....
her son (Freddie's godson) is really related to Freddie ?
I tell you, that will explain a lot. And since we're having wild thoughts with the whole Don't try so hard video nonsense, I think there's space for this theory too.
Now. In my opinion, Dave Clark has been the most loyal friend of his entourage. You can see him really caring for his friend during the video shoot of TATDOOL, and he was there when he died.
But about Freddie's personal life, I think the most intriguing part is the part that Barbara Valentin played during the 80's. She must have been quite a character !.
So - Freddie tells Mary first, and he gives her his house after death.
Hutton finds out at least a year after the fact (yet he still thinks he was first - funny that), and just gets a few bucks in the will.
Hutton writes tell-all book. Mary doesn't.
And there are people who still wonder who Freddie loved and trusted the most, when all the signs are clearly there.
[/QUOTE]
You need to put things in perspective.
In 1986, Freddie knew Jim for like a year. He probably had not a clue if he would be permanent in his life. He even though Jim would leave him after telling him about the AIDS.
In the other hand, Mary has been a loyal friend for more than a decade.
So that doesn't mean that he didn't loved or trusted Jim at the end. The circunstances in his relationship with both were different in 1986.
Let's not fall in the whole denial about freddie's sexual inclinations, just because the whole Freddie-Mary thing is a comfortable tale.
I can see why Jim put that book out. he probably felt pretty pissed about the place Mary gain after Freddie's death. He was human after all.
Now let me make a bold statement (crazy theory).
What if Freddie gave half of his fortune to Mary because....
her son (Freddie's godson) is really related to Freddie ?
I tell you, that will explain a lot. And since we're having wild thoughts with the whole Don't try so hard video nonsense, I think there's space for this theory too.
Now. In my opinion, Dave Clark has been the most loyal friend of his entourage. You can see him really caring for his friend during the video shoot of TATDOOL, and he was there when he died.
But about Freddie's personal life, I think the most intriguing part is the part that Barbara Valentin played during the 80's. She must have been quite a character !.
luthorn
Yeah Barbara must have been quite a cookie, since she was asked not to appear at Freddie's funeral. I wonder why? In any case, I believe it was her who indicate that Freddie quit Munich gay scene in 1985, never to return. Is that correct? I always thought Munich was a conservative and anti-non German peoples place; after all that's where Hitler got his start or maybe the real reason why Hitler went to Munich was because of a vibrant gay scene. who knows...
tomchristie22
LOL. I think the sixty year gap between the Munich Beer Hall Putsch and Freddie getting in on Munich's gay scene was enough time for it to change at least a bit, socially.
musicland munich
However "Adolf Schicklgruber" ( Adolf`s former real name) ends up in this thred....
There is a quite a good reson why he kept his possible HIV status as a secret. In the early days of AIDS the doctors assumed that about 30 - 40 % of infected people will develop full blown AIDS..so as a human beeing Freddie might have tought he will be one the lucky guys....but the numbers changed in a dramatic manner year by year during the80`s until they reached the 9X % mark...
There is a quite a good reson why he kept his possible HIV status as a secret. In the early days of AIDS the doctors assumed that about 30 - 40 % of infected people will develop full blown AIDS..so as a human beeing Freddie might have tought he will be one the lucky guys....but the numbers changed in a dramatic manner year by year during the80`s until they reached the 9X % mark...