I cant be bothered to read this thread in in it's entirity but it appears as though your son has been excluded from school for peeing on a U.S soldier?
Wow! You palemerks are some crazy mo-fos.
fatty.
-fatty- 2850
Thread
Posts in chronological order
GratefulFan
What is a palemerk? Google was...not helpful.
Hangman_96
Is it something related to poker?
GratefulFan
I think it probably has something to do with Scotland or football or football in Scotland. But the word immediately made me think of 'meerkat' (!), and until somebody rescues David from my ignorance I'm stuck thinking of him as a giant member of the mongoose family who presides over a somewhat smaller mongoose like creature who has potentially been excluded from school for peeing on a US soldier. Somebody. Please. Help David not be a meerkat.
The Real Wizard
[QUOTE] [b]YourValentine wrote:[/b]
I think we must understand why students get bullied in order to stop it, I really do not understand why this happens.[/QUOTE]
In a nutshell, most bullying is done by kids with low self-esteem. By bringing others down to their level, it validates their own existence. But of course it can be more complicated than that. Psychologists have studied it for ages.
The worst symptom of bullying is feeling isolated, so the best way to combat bullying is to have a network of people on your side.
But there's another angle that most people miss - bullying doesn't always stop in the schoolyard. These kids grow up and they bully in the workplace. Professional bullies. And they're often your boss. It's tougher to combat it at work, because any kind of action could result in you losing your job.
I think we must understand why students get bullied in order to stop it, I really do not understand why this happens.[/QUOTE]
In a nutshell, most bullying is done by kids with low self-esteem. By bringing others down to their level, it validates their own existence. But of course it can be more complicated than that. Psychologists have studied it for ages.
The worst symptom of bullying is feeling isolated, so the best way to combat bullying is to have a network of people on your side.
But there's another angle that most people miss - bullying doesn't always stop in the schoolyard. These kids grow up and they bully in the workplace. Professional bullies. And they're often your boss. It's tougher to combat it at work, because any kind of action could result in you losing your job.
Hangman_96
[b]The Real Wizard
[/b]Bob, please check your email.
[/b]Bob, please check your email.
YourValentine
I am afraid David is a palemerk by birth or at least by location :-)
Back to topic - I believe that bullying is a relatively new phenomenon in schools. It must come from somewhere because I remember times when bullying simply did not happen in schools. Perhaps education has changed because hitting at smaller children or ganging up upon individual students was such a no-go in "my days" that students who did not follow these rules would have been unable to find other kids who helped them bully individual students. Also, in my school days teachers tried very hard to teach us how people are different and how you cannot under any circumstance make fun of other peoples' shortcomings or inabilities. Maybe this stopped at some point in time. We did not have any social workers or additional pschiatrists or something - just teachers. On the other hand bullying did happen at work places, it just was not called bullying.
Back to topic - I believe that bullying is a relatively new phenomenon in schools. It must come from somewhere because I remember times when bullying simply did not happen in schools. Perhaps education has changed because hitting at smaller children or ganging up upon individual students was such a no-go in "my days" that students who did not follow these rules would have been unable to find other kids who helped them bully individual students. Also, in my school days teachers tried very hard to teach us how people are different and how you cannot under any circumstance make fun of other peoples' shortcomings or inabilities. Maybe this stopped at some point in time. We did not have any social workers or additional pschiatrists or something - just teachers. On the other hand bullying did happen at work places, it just was not called bullying.
GratefulFan
Armed with that clue, I found this:
[i]I live in Galashiels, the largest town in the Scottish Borders, which is (if you haven't grasped it yet!) in Scotland.
Completely unremarkable town really, bad areas, good areas and some really scummy areas. The one funny bit of trivia is that people from Galashiels are derogatorily known as 'palemerks', where pale is, you know, a pale, or bucket and 'merk' being a local pronounciation of the word 'mark'. So bucket marks? What's significant about that? Well, that's because Galashiels was the last place in the Scottish Borders to get flushing toilets. So when the rest of the Borders had their fancy flushing thingies, they were mocking the people of Galashiels for the marks on their arses left by the buckets they were still shitting in.
[/i]
In case anybody else was curious. :)
Bullying is not a new phenomenon. It's been a feature of literature and childhood experience for ages. The child rights movement was still in it's nascence even in the 1970's, and bullying or taunting and teasing at low and mid levels were not really addressed at school by teachers or schools leaders in my school years. I was bullied badly in Grade 7 - to the point that I was twisted into a new person in some senses - by - wait for it - MY TEACHER. I wouldn't call that common, but at least one other time in Grade 1 a teacher brought a classmate who struggled a lot and sometimes urinated in his pants to the front of the classroom with urine soiled jeans for everybody else to look and laugh. And she wasn't cruel to us generally - I can only blame that on ignorance and thinking that shaming was an effective method of discipline or correction. Still, I can still feel his burning torment even now across all these years. It was a terrible thing to do a small child.
There were none of the modern day awareness campaigns and the school yard could be a jungle. We had a girl in our class that had an artificial limb below the knee on one leg. Back then the limbs were made of wood, and this miscreant in our class I can only imagine is dead by now of idiocy of some kind used to spend recesses largely unhindered running around hooting "2 by 4, 4 by 8, How do you measure a lumber leg?" Children who were overweight were openly and consistently picked last for teams and their Valentine's boxes were routinely stuffed with the Valentine's cards with cartoon elephants or hippos on them at that yearly ritual. If you were in any way marginalized by anything, even fleetingly, there would be repercussions from the group. Almost everyone was a victim in some way at some point, and you just dealt with it and adapted where you could. Childhood in my era was in it's way the purest of merit societies. It could be cruel, and it could be wonderful, and it was a pretty good preparation for the joys and inequities of adulthood in the end. Things have changed greatly on the surface and in the literature and in the official zero tolerance policies of schools and school boards, but underneath it seems to me that the same age old currents of childhood still ebb and flow.
I was surprised by your experience YV. I wouldn't have guessed that at all typical or common.
[i]I live in Galashiels, the largest town in the Scottish Borders, which is (if you haven't grasped it yet!) in Scotland.
Completely unremarkable town really, bad areas, good areas and some really scummy areas. The one funny bit of trivia is that people from Galashiels are derogatorily known as 'palemerks', where pale is, you know, a pale, or bucket and 'merk' being a local pronounciation of the word 'mark'. So bucket marks? What's significant about that? Well, that's because Galashiels was the last place in the Scottish Borders to get flushing toilets. So when the rest of the Borders had their fancy flushing thingies, they were mocking the people of Galashiels for the marks on their arses left by the buckets they were still shitting in.
[/i]
In case anybody else was curious. :)
Bullying is not a new phenomenon. It's been a feature of literature and childhood experience for ages. The child rights movement was still in it's nascence even in the 1970's, and bullying or taunting and teasing at low and mid levels were not really addressed at school by teachers or schools leaders in my school years. I was bullied badly in Grade 7 - to the point that I was twisted into a new person in some senses - by - wait for it - MY TEACHER. I wouldn't call that common, but at least one other time in Grade 1 a teacher brought a classmate who struggled a lot and sometimes urinated in his pants to the front of the classroom with urine soiled jeans for everybody else to look and laugh. And she wasn't cruel to us generally - I can only blame that on ignorance and thinking that shaming was an effective method of discipline or correction. Still, I can still feel his burning torment even now across all these years. It was a terrible thing to do a small child.
There were none of the modern day awareness campaigns and the school yard could be a jungle. We had a girl in our class that had an artificial limb below the knee on one leg. Back then the limbs were made of wood, and this miscreant in our class I can only imagine is dead by now of idiocy of some kind used to spend recesses largely unhindered running around hooting "2 by 4, 4 by 8, How do you measure a lumber leg?" Children who were overweight were openly and consistently picked last for teams and their Valentine's boxes were routinely stuffed with the Valentine's cards with cartoon elephants or hippos on them at that yearly ritual. If you were in any way marginalized by anything, even fleetingly, there would be repercussions from the group. Almost everyone was a victim in some way at some point, and you just dealt with it and adapted where you could. Childhood in my era was in it's way the purest of merit societies. It could be cruel, and it could be wonderful, and it was a pretty good preparation for the joys and inequities of adulthood in the end. Things have changed greatly on the surface and in the literature and in the official zero tolerance policies of schools and school boards, but underneath it seems to me that the same age old currents of childhood still ebb and flow.
I was surprised by your experience YV. I wouldn't have guessed that at all typical or common.
thomasquinn 32989
I would be willing to concede that Micrówave brings "the other side" to quite a number of arguments. Not that he has ever even for a moment seriously pondered both sides to any great issue. But then again, neither am I willing to see the other side's point of view in quite a number of things (the white American South's response to civil rights legislation, for instance).
david (galashiels)
thank you for all the replys to my subject/topic/problem...and a small update.
elliot is going in to school on thursday to see all his teachers,he will be the only kid in school because of a inservice day(unsure what the other countrys call this),no pupils teachers only.
he has appointments to see all his teachers and get up to date work.and it seems he wil be working from home for the near future,the local ccouncil are in the process of supplying a home tutor.
again thank you for all your kind replys,and gratefulfan,i never knew that fact lol.
elliot still wont go out of the house alone,and only goes out when in the car,so he wont bump into anyone.
i hope this is not going to be a long term problem?.
elliot is going in to school on thursday to see all his teachers,he will be the only kid in school because of a inservice day(unsure what the other countrys call this),no pupils teachers only.
he has appointments to see all his teachers and get up to date work.and it seems he wil be working from home for the near future,the local ccouncil are in the process of supplying a home tutor.
again thank you for all your kind replys,and gratefulfan,i never knew that fact lol.
elliot still wont go out of the house alone,and only goes out when in the car,so he wont bump into anyone.
i hope this is not going to be a long term problem?.
GratefulFan
[QUOTE]
[b]david (galashiels) wrote: [/b] and gratefulfan,i never knew that fact lol.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, it's totally true! They're white, usually, and roundish, and they do have a flushie thing. You can get them in Edinburgh I bet. :P
[b]david (galashiels) wrote: [/b] and gratefulfan,i never knew that fact lol.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, it's totally true! They're white, usually, and roundish, and they do have a flushie thing. You can get them in Edinburgh I bet. :P
YourValentine
David - why is your child excluded from school? Shouldn't the teachers protect him and enforce no-bully policies in the school? I find it outrageous that the victim has to stay at home and not the bullies!
@GratefulFan - reading your post I probably have another idea of "bullying". In fact we had cases of students being ridiculed at times in front of the class room by stupid teachers but there was always the loyalty of the class - we knew who was the friend (student) and who was the enemy (teacher). Also, I was always picked last for team games because I was the smallest child in class but I never thought of that as bullying. I was small and therefore I was not an asset for a team, I did not take it personally. Actually, in high school we did not have many overweight kids - that happened after my school days. I think we are behind the USA and Canada in all things - good or bad :-) There was always favouritism and injustice but that comes with life and happens everywhere. In my childhood we simply had to put up with it. What I really never experienced in my school day was a group of children ganging up against singled out individuals. I only encountered that when my god daughter had this problem in school. Maybe it was because I grew up in a smaller town with no particular social problems. The worst disadvantage a child could have in my school was when they came from a village and did not speak the correct standard German that was required in high school.
@GratefulFan - reading your post I probably have another idea of "bullying". In fact we had cases of students being ridiculed at times in front of the class room by stupid teachers but there was always the loyalty of the class - we knew who was the friend (student) and who was the enemy (teacher). Also, I was always picked last for team games because I was the smallest child in class but I never thought of that as bullying. I was small and therefore I was not an asset for a team, I did not take it personally. Actually, in high school we did not have many overweight kids - that happened after my school days. I think we are behind the USA and Canada in all things - good or bad :-) There was always favouritism and injustice but that comes with life and happens everywhere. In my childhood we simply had to put up with it. What I really never experienced in my school day was a group of children ganging up against singled out individuals. I only encountered that when my god daughter had this problem in school. Maybe it was because I grew up in a smaller town with no particular social problems. The worst disadvantage a child could have in my school was when they came from a village and did not speak the correct standard German that was required in high school.
GratefulFan
[QUOTE]
[b]YourValentine wrote: [/b] @GratefulFan - reading your post I probably have another idea of "bullying". In fact we had cases of students being ridiculed at times in front of the class room by stupid teachers but there was always the loyalty of the class - we knew who was the friend (student) and who was the enemy (teacher). Also, I was always picked last for team games because I was the smallest child in class but I never thought of that as bullying. I was small and therefore I was not an asset for a team, I did not take it personally. Actually, in high school we did not have many overweight kids - that happened after my school days. I think we are behind the USA and Canada in all things - good or bad :-) There was always favouritism and injustice but that comes with life and happens everywhere. In my childhood we simply had to put up with it. What I really never experienced in my school day was a group of children ganging up against singled out individuals. I only encountered that when my god daughter had this problem in school. Maybe it was because I grew up in a smaller town with no particular social problems. The worst disadvantage a child could have in my school was when they came from a village and did not speak the correct standard German that was required in high school.[/QUOTE]
I think you probably have the right idea of bullying, and I just misunderstood your post. :) It sounded to me like you were describing an egalitarian utopia in the lush German countryside where nobody ever even had their feelings hurt, not ever, and certainly not by your teacher, Julie Andrews. LOL
You're right I think that the really focused, targeted bullying was and is rarer. We agree too about situations where students were picked last for teams. While that dishonour could be used as a weapon in shifting campaigns of ostracism for whatever reason, it was often practical decision about skill and athleticism that some kids didn't possess in the same way. So when an overweight child had that experience there was a context that might have been uncomfortable, but there was truth and reason in it. In present day, schools here would not dream of allowing students to pick teams in gym class, because a new paradigm sees the kind of Darwinian schoolyard survival rules that we dealt with in the past as universally harmful. So now, if we continue to consider overweight children, they're still discriminated against as the world will do, but allowed very little context for it. I can't imagine that's an improvement.
The zero tolerance approaches are a mixed blessing. While schools have progressive discipline policies that are designed to catch the most egregious cases and the repeat offenders, by too tightly controlling natural human interactions in times of stress or conflict they've also unwittingly pushed a lot of it out of the more focused environment of the school to fester and grow in the wild frontier of the internet and social media. Schools have been forced into modes that mean they have had to be become more focused on process and accountability than results on some fronts. In the case of David's son, it may be preferable to them to avoid liability for potential incidents in an overheated situation than it is to take on some risk and solve the problem for real with Elliot at school.
Schools' fear of the wrath of hyperinvolved parents is certainly a new complication. The reason my Grade 7 teacher could be such a successful tyrant was because the expectation by parents was that we listened to our teachers, who were naturally always right. That teacher had a special spot in his dark little heart for breaking me, but he was just generally a mad man. He'd leave his desk drawers open for the express purpose of violently slamming them shut to punctuate his anger about whatever. It was like grenades all day. At least 3 or 4 times a day he'd express frustration at the smallest thing by whipping chalk, blackboard erasers, books, pens and on several occasions a metre stick (!) at us. We had those flip top desks, and we'd learned to duck and cover at the first noise. People would knock on the classroom door when it was shut and there would be paper flying everywhere as we reflexively tried to protect our heads. We were half way to being a room full of 12 year old PTSD sufferers. To imagine that happening today couldn't be more laughable or impossible. And that, I suppose, is an improvement.
PS. Are you still small? If so, I would like to suggest that future impasses by resolved by height. I'm average at 5' 5 1/2". So I could say stuff like "As somebody 2 and a half inches taller than you, I'm right. " What do you think? Do you think that's a good idea? I say that's a good idea. I'm probably taller and you have to agree.
[b]YourValentine wrote: [/b] @GratefulFan - reading your post I probably have another idea of "bullying". In fact we had cases of students being ridiculed at times in front of the class room by stupid teachers but there was always the loyalty of the class - we knew who was the friend (student) and who was the enemy (teacher). Also, I was always picked last for team games because I was the smallest child in class but I never thought of that as bullying. I was small and therefore I was not an asset for a team, I did not take it personally. Actually, in high school we did not have many overweight kids - that happened after my school days. I think we are behind the USA and Canada in all things - good or bad :-) There was always favouritism and injustice but that comes with life and happens everywhere. In my childhood we simply had to put up with it. What I really never experienced in my school day was a group of children ganging up against singled out individuals. I only encountered that when my god daughter had this problem in school. Maybe it was because I grew up in a smaller town with no particular social problems. The worst disadvantage a child could have in my school was when they came from a village and did not speak the correct standard German that was required in high school.[/QUOTE]
I think you probably have the right idea of bullying, and I just misunderstood your post. :) It sounded to me like you were describing an egalitarian utopia in the lush German countryside where nobody ever even had their feelings hurt, not ever, and certainly not by your teacher, Julie Andrews. LOL
You're right I think that the really focused, targeted bullying was and is rarer. We agree too about situations where students were picked last for teams. While that dishonour could be used as a weapon in shifting campaigns of ostracism for whatever reason, it was often practical decision about skill and athleticism that some kids didn't possess in the same way. So when an overweight child had that experience there was a context that might have been uncomfortable, but there was truth and reason in it. In present day, schools here would not dream of allowing students to pick teams in gym class, because a new paradigm sees the kind of Darwinian schoolyard survival rules that we dealt with in the past as universally harmful. So now, if we continue to consider overweight children, they're still discriminated against as the world will do, but allowed very little context for it. I can't imagine that's an improvement.
The zero tolerance approaches are a mixed blessing. While schools have progressive discipline policies that are designed to catch the most egregious cases and the repeat offenders, by too tightly controlling natural human interactions in times of stress or conflict they've also unwittingly pushed a lot of it out of the more focused environment of the school to fester and grow in the wild frontier of the internet and social media. Schools have been forced into modes that mean they have had to be become more focused on process and accountability than results on some fronts. In the case of David's son, it may be preferable to them to avoid liability for potential incidents in an overheated situation than it is to take on some risk and solve the problem for real with Elliot at school.
Schools' fear of the wrath of hyperinvolved parents is certainly a new complication. The reason my Grade 7 teacher could be such a successful tyrant was because the expectation by parents was that we listened to our teachers, who were naturally always right. That teacher had a special spot in his dark little heart for breaking me, but he was just generally a mad man. He'd leave his desk drawers open for the express purpose of violently slamming them shut to punctuate his anger about whatever. It was like grenades all day. At least 3 or 4 times a day he'd express frustration at the smallest thing by whipping chalk, blackboard erasers, books, pens and on several occasions a metre stick (!) at us. We had those flip top desks, and we'd learned to duck and cover at the first noise. People would knock on the classroom door when it was shut and there would be paper flying everywhere as we reflexively tried to protect our heads. We were half way to being a room full of 12 year old PTSD sufferers. To imagine that happening today couldn't be more laughable or impossible. And that, I suppose, is an improvement.
PS. Are you still small? If so, I would like to suggest that future impasses by resolved by height. I'm average at 5' 5 1/2". So I could say stuff like "As somebody 2 and a half inches taller than you, I'm right. " What do you think? Do you think that's a good idea? I say that's a good idea. I'm probably taller and you have to agree.
david (galashiels)
elliot was not excluded,he was withdrawn from school for his own safety,he returned and was imediatly threatened by another child,so was withdrawn again.
and all this time the bullys were allowed to return to school after a few days ,while ells suffers at home.
there seems no end to this problem.but today i heard some good news.
one of the bullys broke his ankle playing rugby,so a small part of justice is being served.
and all this time the bullys were allowed to return to school after a few days ,while ells suffers at home.
there seems no end to this problem.but today i heard some good news.
one of the bullys broke his ankle playing rugby,so a small part of justice is being served.
Donna13
I was not aware of any serious bullying when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's. Except for one group of mean girls who for some unknown reason (they were about three years older than my little group that walked to school together) said that they were going to beat us up. We didn't even know them. It was scary and I think a couple of times we had to run for our lives, so to speak. But looking back I think maybe they just wanted to scare us. I never knew of any students getting physically harmed by other students other than icy snow balls or other types of teasing and horse play. Nothing that would produce blood or broken bones.
My sister went to a rough school for a year and got along without any trouble by not making eye contact. She realized very early on that reacting in any way would only encourage the aggressive behavior. My parents made the decision to move us away from that school district. So I never had to deal with any unpleasantness of that nature. It is too much to ask of a kid to deal with criminals at school. The parents need to take over rather than assuming the school will do anything. I don't have kids so I don't have any experience but it seems like a matter for the police and also legal advice. And moving the kid to a safer school as soon as possible. Home school would also be an option if there is no better school available. Good luck with this terrible problem.
My sister went to a rough school for a year and got along without any trouble by not making eye contact. She realized very early on that reacting in any way would only encourage the aggressive behavior. My parents made the decision to move us away from that school district. So I never had to deal with any unpleasantness of that nature. It is too much to ask of a kid to deal with criminals at school. The parents need to take over rather than assuming the school will do anything. I don't have kids so I don't have any experience but it seems like a matter for the police and also legal advice. And moving the kid to a safer school as soon as possible. Home school would also be an option if there is no better school available. Good luck with this terrible problem.