Atheism

Heard about this 'feature' of Apple's Siri last night while watching a hockey game on TV. Don't know if it's just this version of iOS, just in Canada, or what, but look what happens when you ask Siri to show you a picture of God. Ahhahahaha! I've asked her about 10 times since last night just to amuse myself. For non-fans, Daniel is the longest serving captain in the NHL and a big fan favourite.

[QUOTE] [b]GratefulFan wrote:[/b] Heard about this 'feature' of Apple's Siri last night while watching a hockey game on TV. Don't know if it's just this version of iOS, just in Canada, or what, but look what happens when you ask Siri to show you a picture of God. Ahhahahaha! I've asked her about 10 times since last night just to amuse myself. For non-fans, Daniel is the longest serving captain in the NHL and a big fan favourite. [/QUOTE] This is just too funny. Love it.

I know! Hahaha. It totally made my night. One of those brilliant unexpected things that remind you that people are great. Reading about it in media today I found out that others have discovered that it also works for "Who does god play for?" ("Daniel Alfredsson currently plays right winger for the Ottawa Senators") and, one that really cracks me up in context, "Where was god born?" ("Gothenburg, Sweden"). Ha haha. Couldn't have happened to a nicer player.

[QUOTE] [b]magicalfreddiemercury wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]Heavenite wrote:[/b]

Problem is times and technology have changed, but these rules have become ingrained as part of the dogma and now cause more guilt and harm than any good. The religions are therefore stuck in the past and not always serving those people they profess to serve. And that's why they are becoming increasingly irrelevant. [/QUOTE]

It's absolutely true, times and technology (and attitudes) have changed, yet I hold the very strong opinions that religion has not become irrelevant quickly enough, and that the guilt and harm it causes is nothing new but rather an integral (and IMO, intentional) part of it.

Of course 'good' can be found in nearly everything. The 'good' side of it is the sense of community and charity. However, religion itself is not the impetus to those things. And so, I am still of the opinion that simple common decency, not kowtowing to a supposed higher power, is what will improve the quality of life for nearly everyone. (I say nearly because some, I have learned, thrive on the guilt.)

I do like the way you think, though. It's insightful and open-minded.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks MFM
When we adhere to common decency we certainly do what's best for both ourselves and others. And that's regardless of whether anything else like some supernatural entity happens to be there or not.

And for religion to continue to be there in the longer term will depend a lot on what extent it meets people's needs in the future. I mean if it is just going to keep giving people guilt, then I can't see much use for it, apart from that relatively small number of people you describe who thrive on that. But if it does change where it needs to, there is a chance that it can once again be relevant enough, at least to some people, to justify it's existence.

quite dangerous but very interesting discussion ;) will read everything when I have time, but I read your first post - and I don't agree with you: I think being intelligent is not directly linked with faith, and if, I'd even say, the more (really) intelligent (if you define intelligent not only as rationally intelligent, but also emotionally f.ex. "understanding" values), the more faithful!. I was an agnostic when young and unexperienced; now after I have studied 7 years of philosophy, a big amount of philosophic texts, various ideologies and belief systems and so on, I have turned into a strong believer. I believe in God. And I am conviced that only those universal values can save us and humanity - other ideologies, philosophies are relativistic or materialistic etc etc only harm people and our souls - there really would be peace on earth if all the people would believe in that 1 loving God Jesus revealed us. Sorry for my English :-O (I have forgotten all my English because of reading complex philosophic texts in German LOL :/) P.S. in the bible there is written something which I like very much and which I think is a core statement about God: "God is [also] Love" - so when God is Love, he is real, because love is real ;) take care!

"only those universal values can save us and humanity - other ideologies, philosophies are relativistic or materialistic etc etc only harm people and our souls"

That's a fine example of religious fundamentalism: a narrow-minded denunciation of every philosophy that is not your own with false arguments. Christianity does not contain a single idea that did not originate in an older philosophy, and your claim that every other philosophy is "relativistic or materialistic" is not just disrespectful and nonsensical, but an outright lie. By definition every idealistic philosophy is not materialistic, and by definition every absolutist philosophy is not relativistic. If you've been studying philosophy, you have not done a very good job at it, as your claims are, from a purely philosophical point of view, patently untrue. You can believe what you want to believe, but when you start spreading false claims you destroy the value of what you believe in by tainting it with dishonesty.

I'm so happy you replied to this, Thomas. My response would have been a counter-argument that would have gone nowhere.

[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]

You can believe what you want to believe, but when you start spreading false claims you destroy the value of what you believe in by tainting it with dishonesty. [/QUOTE]

Completely agree.

thank you for your "friendly" reply - I expected it - I sadly don't have time to write a whole article here, but my opinion is not fundamentalistic. Christianity is not fundamentalistic in it's core - that's called rather seeking for the truth.
Fundamentalistic would be when I would force you to believe - and I certainly don't do. Fundamentalistic are the people who misuse Christianity and force other people to join or misuse religion to kill etc.
Our problem is, we live in a world with the attitude "do what you want" etc and I must disagree; the do what you want is harmful to people because there must be (in German "notwendigerweise") some principles after all people live - if they aren't such principles f.ex. "don't kill" there is chaos!

sorry for my English but I did NOT mean EVERY other philosophy! - it is absolutely clear that idealistic philosophy is not "materialism"! It is very sad that you took my words (I even did not say "every") and misused my situation of not speaking your language well. I would NEVER tell another human being just from one answer: "you did not study well" - that is very unfriendly.

I highly appreciate Plato f.ex. - he also tells to follow that one truth, so does that mean he is fundamentalistic? I doubt it.
That means looking for universal values. Take f.ex. the human rights - do you think they are fundamentalistic?
You are right with the origin of ideas of Christianity - after all Jesus came and spoke mainly about what we now know as the "Old Testament" - only he revealed a whole new perspective, a "new" God.
If you could speak German I could better make my point clear.
One more question: what did you study?


[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]

"only those universal values can save us and humanity - other ideologies, philosophies are relativistic or materialistic etc etc only harm people and our souls"

That's a fine example of religious fundamentalism: a narrow-minded denunciation of every philosophy that is not your own with false arguments. Christianity does not contain a single idea that did not originate in an older philosophy, and your claim that every other philosophy is "relativistic or materialistic" is not just disrespectful and nonsensical, but an outright lie. By definition every idealistic philosophy is not materialistic, and by definition every absolutist philosophy is not relativistic. If you've been studying philosophy, you have not done a very good job at it, as your claims are, from a purely philosophical point of view, patently untrue. You can believe what you want to believe, but when you start spreading false claims you destroy the value of what you believe in by tainting it with dishonesty.[/QUOTE]

Still checking in on my own thread every now and then ready to be convinced by evidence that will rock my world and whole existence....


See you again in a week or two....

[QUOTE] [b]mooghead wrote:[/b]

Still checking in on my own thread every now and then ready to be convinced by evidence that will rock my world and whole existence....
[/QUOTE]

You won't see any earth-shattering evidence to make you a believer since the faithful see 'evidence' in everything.

It's been my experience that no amount of debate will change the bottom line for the most devout - whatever you say was chosen by god for you to say, whatever evidence you point to was placed there by god for you to discover, whatever event occurs does so because god waved his hand and made it so...

There is no way to alter the mind of those who are deeply entrenched in their faith since they are warned that their faith will often be tested. And so for many, doubt, science, opposing arguments and faiths not their own, become those tests. They are compelled to fight against them in every way possible.

It's a frightening cycle that's hard to break. For one to do so would be to put not only their own soul at risk, but also the souls of those they love. Guilt and terror are rather effective tools.

I found and recommend some links relating to this topic - indeed faith is not organized religion, God is not ex aequo with religion - there is a lot of misusing going on - there also have been many scandals in the history of Church, but that means that Church and we people are bad and guilty, not Jesus or God...
we live in tragic, cold and heartless times: anyone who claims true faith in God, without forcing or killing, is persecuted and hated it seems - but in the New Testament there is nothing said about doing harm to people or "killing in the name of religion".... someone who follows God does not practice terror.
it's a delicate topic...
links:
http://www.lovethetruth.com/false_religion/occult/all_big_religions.htm
http://www.lovethetruth.com/false_religion/catholicism/list_of_heresies.htm

New World Order? Really? You honestly believe there is some kind of big occult cover-up?

yes, I do. I was once trapped in the occult when I was a teen. Occult societies, manipulation etc are sadly very real today... and if they are not occult, they are truly evil and against humans. Our capitalistic system is also of evil - only money and profit matters - at the cost of our life.

With capitalism, there is a monetary incentive for new technology, scientific discoveries, hit songs, medical advancement, etc., all of which have the potential to provide a more interesting, fun, and comfortable life for consumers. Of course, there is also the need for government regulation to try to prevent fraud, harm to consumers, harm to workers, lack of competition, economic collapse, and to protect the environment.

One's own negative experiences growing up are sad to hear about, but this does not mean that the problems experienced by individuals are universal. Everyone has different experiences, and different reactions to experiences.

Also, the world is too complex and uncontrolled to have "world order". People can't even figure out how to keep hackers from acquiring government and industry secrets. There is too much human error to have a power at the top controlling everything ... or whatever the theory is. Also, it seems a lot of young people here are victims of incorrect information. They do not have the judgment to seek information from different sources, but instead believe what they read on certain websites made by crazy delusional people.

I see here are people who either deny the situation of the world, who are manipultated or who are working themselves for the government - I'm sorry, my English is not that good, but I regularly read critical blogs, books and publications about politics, philosophy, theology, science since years. I am an MA student and those topics are of interest and big importance to me. I have to find good and serious links in English, but if you like I can post all links on German, because it's my primary language in which I do research.
I don't see any advancement in medicine - have you ever seen the documentary "cancer - the forbidden cures"? You can look for it on youtube. All I see is avancement without values, advancement in drug industry, but not in actually healing the people from their suffering (in this documentary it is stated that there are natural cancer cures, but the big industries are not interested in letting the people know, because they would lose billions of money). An advancement which is designed to make more money without caring for the people. It's not my own experience - in my country and around the world I know many cases and many people who suffer from this system, from the medicine lobby etc - there are websites of people who write about their own experiences.
And is the criteria of fun the only criteria for life? Where are the values? Where is thruth? Where are morals and ethics? Is comfort and consuming the sense of life?
I heard an intelligent man, academic and major from Russia say "there are no uncontrolled processes in politics/government" - everything is controlled. He is/ was working for the government and his lectures are online, but only in Russian language.
I have information from many sources on three/four languages from 3 continents, not only couple of sources. I think it is very important to stay critical in these times and I think official media who is sponsored does not tell you the truth. I rarely watch TV, and when, only qualitative formats, because TV has become dumber and dumber, as if it is the plan to make us dumber and steal our ability to think. Naturally, I cannot state that I know the whole truth, but I keep on searching. Nice to have talked here with you. Goodbye and kind regards from Austria, Europe. God bless.