The truth Queen/"Fanthology"/etc don't want you to know about Queen II

I'm surprised that the venerable GT and the even more esteemed Greggy Boy Brooks haven't chipped in to this by now. You can bet your bottom dollar that they've both received umpteen private messages connecting them to this thread.

I wonder how long it'll be.........

i don't think they can - unless to confirm the topic starter is actually telling the truth.

it's not like they can refute what he says - because they run the risk (through a position of only knowing what queen have in the archives) of being made to look incapable c*nts.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
Your understanding is incredibly flawed. Toss the lies and preconceptions and read carefully:

The fanthology is a group of Queen collectors who have, individually and collectively, been responsible for the emergence of the overwhelming majority of unreleased Queen material over the past couple decades for everyone to hear.

Full stop. Breathe. Keep reading:

Incredible amounts of time and money have been invested to acquire said material, and people like you merely need to point and click to download. With all that spare time you could be working on your reading comprehension instead of spewing crap about a topic you know absolutely nothing about. So stop. You add nothing to the discussion.

Do you understand any better now or do you need me to draw a picture?

The topic starter here is a very welcome addition to the discussion.[/QUOTE]

Among all the contributions to this thread, this is the best out of a quality bunch of replies.

"Fanthology" are not the enemy - it's QPL.

"Fanthology" members are torn though and it's completely understandable why.

On the one hand, they're Queen fans - massive Queen fans. So much so, they've spent £10,000s acquiring the rarest material. They need to preserve the scarcity of the recordings in order to trade to get more rarities.

On the other hand, they'd love to share it with all of us. They'd love QPL to release them. But the value of their investments will plummet, just like the FM rarities did after the publication of the box set.

They are caught between a rock and a hard place, albeit with some fascinating, rare music to accompany them.

Neither side wants to admit how vast the output of recordings, different versions, unused songs, etc are, even during the early albums. It doesn't suit them (as they don't want QPL to know they have it) and it sure doesn't suite QPL (who don't want to release anything any way).

Two 4m versions of SSOR exist. "Deep Ridge" exists. "Surrender To The City" exists.

The Game was originally going to be a double album but, somehow, was released as one of their shortest single albums. Some of the left-off songs are great, some a bit iffy. With the quality of songs available, how on earth did "Coming Soon" and "Need Your Loving Tonight" make it on the album???

Take the red pill and go back to your 2011 remasters. Take the blue pill and see how deep the rabbit hole really goes.

[QUOTE] [b]FriedChicken wrote:[/b]
We are keeping the original version of Let Me Live with Freddie on all verses, the 8 minute Bohemian Rhapsody, Deep Ridge, Surrender to the City and the long version of Seven Seas of Rhye in our archives. We will release them when The New Order is ready. [/QUOTE]

Just for clarity, there is no 8 minute version of Bohemian Rhapsody that the band members made me aware of during my time as part of what we were all part of.

SSOR long version has already been proven to exist via the acetate auction on eBay.

[QUOTE] [b]FriedChicken wrote:[/b]
Strange how the Fanthology has been seen as some kind of Illuminati, while it's 'just' a group of Queen experts. [/QUOTE]

Some of the people in the inner circle thought Fanthology was behind 9/11.

You mean, they *weren't* behind it...??

Oh...

I'd love for this all to be true, but I somehow doubt it is. Here's a previous post I made on the subject that contains a link to the original thread from TLToF where these QII demos were first mentioned.

[url=http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1246544/no-subject.aspx]http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1246544/no-subject.aspx[/url]

Fanthology and collectors are just as much the problem and the 'enemy' as if you're just an average Joe or Jane music lover. They're no different from any other entrenched power that wants to cling on to privilege at the expense of others. The pre-internet anachronism of a system they use is not written into the fabric of the universe, it's a self serving and self perpetuating operation that keeps the wealth, in this case music that we're all equally passionate about, concentrated at the top. I made exactly the point about the 'investment' angle in a recent post - and they're the only investors on the planet that seem to think they should be protected from a changing marketplace by fucking decree and the subjugated cooperation of the proletariat. Fuck them, truly. Other human pursuit like history, science, art isn't conducted this way. If this artificial barter system imploded tomorrow rare music would still be sought, discovered and shared - but this time freely and for it's own sake. Nobody ever expected any collector to empty their vaults, but for at least a decade the internet has created opportunities for new models of collecting and sharing that don't exclude so many passionate and aware fans so thoroughly. Not only have they not been taken, but the Fullers of the world and their fledgling alternative systems are absolutely crushed for their dissent. Personally I think there has to something a bit askance in the characters of people who hoard music in this day and age, but whatever. I find this subject increasingly depressing because it just reminds me how generally shitty and self serving people can be, and the endless excuses and justifications that prop it all up.

@greatfulfan
except for one key point - without fantology where do the average fans get any info as to what other tracks actually exist?
because the drip-fed nature from conventions doesn't scratch the surface. without the traders/collectors we'd know fuck-all about fuck-all
we wouldn't know there was ON 4min version of SSOR - let alone TWO!!!

and the things that have gone "wild" are generally down to collectors/traders letting us have them.

remember the archivist's [ahem] "detailed" account of what live vids QPL had? what a load of bollox - even refuted stuff WE ALL knew was out there
when faced with a choice of fantalogy info or QPL info - i'd choose the collectors everytime - they KNOW what they're talkiing about - as they have it or have heard it or have seen it
whereas QPL are the biblical "doubting Thomas" - haven't seen it? doesn't exist

[QUOTE] [b]Bohardy wrote:[/b]

I'd love for this all to be true, but I somehow doubt it is. Here's a previous post I made on the subject that contains a link to the original thread from TLToF where these QII demos were first mentioned.

[url=http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1246544/no-subject.aspx]http://www.queenzone.com/forums/1246544/no-subject.aspx[/url][/QUOTE]

A lot of the stuff I posted was tongue-in-cheek - I seem to remember a post where Brian wanted to recall the Wembley DVD because he thought it was sh1t.

I think I posted something about Brian having an opera album and Brian managing to clone Freddie.

[QUOTE] [b]GratefulFan wrote:[/b]
Fanthology and collectors are just as much the problem and the 'enemy' as if you're just an average Joe or Jane music lover...the endless excuses and justifications that prop it all up.[/QUOTE]

What rubbish, GratefulFan.

Have you ever been a member of the QueenHub? There's every single concert ever recorded on there. Dozens and dozens of demos, unreleased tracks, remixes and so on.

All of the stuff you can get on there for nothing had to be released by someone. It's just the trading/collecting world moves at different speeds to our own desire for instant gratification.

@Brenski: My point is that the 'choice' between QPL and the status quo collecting world is a false one. Any pursuit needs passionate and knowledgeable leaders, it's the virtually undiluted self interest that is arbitrary.

[QUOTE] [b]Rogers Untidy Bottom wrote:[/b]

What rubbish, GratefulFan.

Have you ever been a member of the QueenHub? There's every single concert ever recorded on there. Dozens and dozens of demos, unreleased tracks, remixes and so on.

All of the stuff you can get on there for nothing had to be released by someone. It's just the trading/collecting world moves at different speeds to our own desire for instant gratification.[/QUOTE]

Right. Instant gratification. An objection to people stuffing music in their chipmunk faces for periods that can stretch into decades is my marshmallow problem.

Imagine if any other human pursuit was justified in this way. Science, art and history hoarded for decades until every last ounce of value is wrung out of it for the benefit of the elite, and then the rest of us expected to be grateful that somebody 'released' it.

I go to concerts and 'release' stuff to YouTube within 30 minutes of getting home because my joy is in sharing it, not playing Bingo with art.

Does footage of Time musical 88 performance exist? Have you heard the complete soundboard recording of it? Was "Time" actually performed or not?

[QUOTE] [b]Rogers Untidy Bottom wrote:[/b]
The Game was originally going to be a double album but, somehow, was released as one of their shortest single albums. Some of the left-off songs are great, some a bit iffy. With the quality of songs available, how on earth did "Coming Soon" and "Need Your Loving Tonight" make it on the album???[/QUOTE]
This is the first time I've ever heard about this. If it's true, then color me pissed. Where are these other songs? Tell you what, if they get released then we can have a thoughtful discussion about why some subpar tracks made it over come apparently very good songs.

[QUOTE] [b]Rogers Untidy Bottom wrote:[/b]
Take the red pill and go back to your 2011 remasters. Take the blue pill and see how deep the rabbit hole really goes.[/QUOTE]
This makes absolutely no sense. Where is the blue pill? I would love to take it, but no one is giving it to me.

[QUOTE] [b]The Real Wizard wrote:[/b]
Your understanding is incredibly flawed. Toss the lies and preconceptions and read carefully:

The fanthology is a group of Queen collectors who have, individually and collectively, been responsible for the emergence of the overwhelming majority of unreleased Queen material over the past couple decades for everyone to hear.

Full stop. Breathe. Keep reading:

Incredible amounts of time and money have been invested to acquire said material, and people like you merely need to point and click to download. With all that spare time you could be working on your reading comprehension instead of spewing crap about a topic you know absolutely nothing about. So stop. You add nothing to the discussion.

Do you understand any better now or do you need me to draw a picture?

The topic starter here is a very welcome addition to the discussion.[/QUOTE]
Well, my original post was made half in jest, but it seems that all your silly ad hominems and aggressive language are completely serious, so let's stop for a moment and realize that we're both fellow Queen fans and both passionate about the band.

Now, what I'm not understanding here is what exactly this Fanthology is giving me. As far as I can tell, DRF is the only (ex)member who has given me any of their stuff.* The argument seems to be that withholding things from me means that the people doing the withholding can trade for more stuff to withhold. I don't get how this is anything but incredibly selfish.

Agreed with GratefulFan wholeheartedly, as usual.

*I don't know where Gregsynth is in this whole topic, but he has made many bootlegs very easy for people to access as well. For that I am grateful. However, I understand that there is so much more out there than his bootlegs, and people are being very cryptic about it.

My two cents:

I cannot be compared to Fanthology members or Dave R Fuller. I provide a service to people by uploading the live shows onto Youtube (for various reasons), but I can't take credit for any of the uploads (the recordings were provided by generous fans). Without the generosity of fans taping shows, we wouldn't have anything here.

The Fanthology members spend thousands of dollars to try to acquire material. I can understand them getting upset when somebody leaks their material out (by breaking trust/agreements). I wasn't in Fanthology so I don't know the full backstory (just bits and pieces from comments here).

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

@greatfulfan
except for one key point - without fantology where do the average fans get any info as to what other tracks actually exist?
because the drip-fed nature from conventions doesn't scratch the surface. without the traders/collectors we'd know fuck-all about fuck-all...

...remember the archivist's [ahem] "detailed" account of what live vids QPL had? what a load of bollox - even refuted stuff WE ALL knew was out there when faced with a choice of fantalogy info or QPL info - i'd choose the collectors everytime - they KNOW what they're talkiing about - as they have it or have heard it or have seen it whereas QPL are the biblical "doubting Thomas" - haven't seen it? doesn't exist[/QUOTE]

Spot on, Brenski, spot on.

Most of the people close to the fact know there were over 30 songs recorded for what became "The Game". From memory, RT is quoted as saying 20. Rubbish, there's easily 10 more and he knows it and Fanthology knows it. Hugely hugely creative period even when the first cracks were starting to appear between FM and BM (imho, BM never really liked FM but other people said I was wrong on that).

QPL history tells us that "The Game" was recorded over 2 periods of time - summer 79 and spring 80. That much is factually correct but there were at least 2 more.

Within the band, following the release of "Jazz", there was general confusion in what direction they should take the next album. Do they stay all "no synths" and "baroque and roll" or do they adapt to the times? Well, they did both - originally by "accident", then the idea of a double LP with two discs with different "Queens" on it circulated, then it went to the LP that was originally released.

CLTCL, SASS, CS and SM were four of, from memory, 16 tracks laid down in 1979 in various different studios (deffo one in London and Ireland). You could imagine any of those tracks fitting on SHA right up to NOTW - albeit with different production. Very classic Queen direction. Other track names from memory were "Home" (ballady), "Only For Today" ("save the world" type song), "Earth" (rocker - not the Smile song), "Cut Me Up" (rocky ballad) and "(It) Seems Like Love" (acoustic ballad, from memory). "It's A Beautiful Day" was originally a gospel-like "All God's People"/"Somebody To Love" type song. I loved the original version abck then but I really like All God's People, despite the fact it appears on what I think is a terrible album.

However, come 1980, the thinking had flipped more to FM and JD's approach, hence AOBTD, DA, PTG, RI(PJ) (Roger attempt at the sound) and a few other tracks, some of which wouldn't have been out of place on Hot Space. In fact, I wonder if some of the completed songs from those sessions were "re-imagined" for Hot Space. I think they might have been but we are talking 33-34 years ago and it was a mad time.

I wasn't there when the decision-making process took place, but it's obvious they went all "new Queen" and consigned the rest to the archive. A great pity - the March-ish 1980 idea of a double LP with one 12" of old "Queen" and a 12" of the new "Queen" would have been amazing.