Freddie Mercury-Send In The Clowns

The best thing about this site is that some of their members are amazing people with a huge knowledge and a huge collection of Queen related stuff.

Thanks to all of you who have been sharing intersting stuff in this (and the other) threads!

The worst thing about this site is how easy a nice post with some interesting facts can be turned into an off-topic nonsense.

To me is very simple.
Mary got the house because Freddie believed that she contributed A LOT to his fame and fortune.
She financially supported him in his first steps, encouraged him to pursue his dream, provided a safe heterosexual net for his relationship with his family ( Freddie regarded his family a lot as we know), and lets face it she gave Freddie "a straight side" that was needed to balance his flamboyance at first, gay lifestyle later.
I think in way he believed he took advantage of her and to a digree its true.
Also they grew up/matured together in those shaping years that turned Bulsara into Mercury.That sais a lot,

On the other hand Jim Hutton was NOT a close friend. He was his PARTNER. Freddie even introduced him as his husband when he was comfortable.
By today's standards he could be the equivilant to Elton John/David Furnish.A proper couple, kids and all...
Although somehow i believe Freddie would again be sticking with adopting another 7 cats.

The key thing to undartsand the situation is to aknwoledge that Freddie didn't make it to witness the mainstreaming of the LGBT community.

These tapes should never have been "released" because they were an intimate communication between three men.

Somethings were just not meant to be heard in public.

[QUOTE] [b]winterspelt wrote:[/b]The worst thing about this site is how easy a nice post with some interesting facts can be turned into an off-topic nonsense.[/QUOTE] so while people discuss what you like it's ok, but when it diverts - as most thread do in time (you can only discuss a certain topic without exhaustion for a finite amount of time) then it becomes "off topic nonsense" - glad you popped by to redress the balance - I'd hate to meander into territory you didn't approve of - and anyhow, didn't i say this would happen? [QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]
Gerry this whole conversation can rack up some strong arguments here. see previous threads :-) [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] [b]kosimodo wrote:[/b] These tapes should never have been "released" because they were an intimate communication between three men. Somethings were just not meant to be heard in public. [/QUOTE] well there's only ONE person to blame - jim

[QUOTE] [b]gerry wrote:[/b] Brenski: Its such a pity Freddie never left his fortune to his sister kashmira, as in my opinion she is freddies blood and more important than Mary.[/QUOTE] a pity for who? YOU? it was frediie's money and house, and freddie obviously deemed her and his godchildren more important in this instance - so freddie's decision. everyone else should respect that. full stop.

[QUOTE] [b]gerry wrote:[/b] Anyway on the whole i understand what you meant about all the hanger ons in logan place, but dear friends like peter freestone and peter straker plus jim hutton were freddies closest friends, and got treated quite badly. [/QUOTE] how did they get treated badly. she asked them to leave HER house - that's her right. - if freddie had really cared much for them, then he'd have written some kind of tenancy term into his will to allow them time to find somewhere else - or he'd have left it in trust to the three of them - he didn't. so only one to blame for any perceived mess is Freddie - not Mary!

[QUOTE] [b]gerry wrote:[/b]What has hacked me off is the fact that Mary is moaning because she has too much of freddies money, she should stop moaning or give it all away to a worth while charity like "The Mercury phoenix trust"[/QUOTE] i don't recall her saying that - i think she said the burden of responsibility was a huge one - and it would be - for anyone - when you have sorted out a modest estate following the death of a loved one - as I have you may just have an inkling of what a crapfest it can become - and that's BEFORE you get into the realms of a big estate and division of assets/wealth like Freddie's must've been for Mary....people round here should cut the woman some slack - she didn't ask for it, but she dealt with it with the grace and failings that most human beings would do so....

^^^ agreed.

Something that isn't very often mentioned is that Freddie only left £8 million in the bank. Reported figure. Many at the time were amazed the amount wasn't much larger.

Yes Mary got the house and the bank account, but did Freddie pay a similar amount into an account for his parents and sister while he was still alive?

The interviews with Kash and her mother in the kitchen, in the Freddie Saved my Life documentary seem to point to her having a pretty substantial property.

[QUOTE] [b]gerry wrote:[/b]Brenski: i agree Freddie could have been to blame for the terrible mess his mates were in, i.e Jim, Peter F and Peter S. But....... you must remember fred was terribly ill and not thinking clearly
so mistakes were bound to happen.
He had enough on his plate knowing he was about to die and soon..[/QUOTE] sorry Gerry. it really doesn't work like that. Freddie (like anyone with a terminal illness) knew he was dying and had plenty of time to "get his sh*t in order"
we don't know when the will was done...but you make it sound like he had no time and other things to worry about - well if he cared about Jim et all so much he had just the same opportunity to legislate for them as he did for Mary. he didn't. one other thing - he woulda had the best legal people money could buy - so all he'd have to do is say what he wanted and sign the fucking document - unlike normal people who have to get really involved in their own wills because they can't afford a team of lackeys and gophers.
I watched my dad and brother die - my brother was told he had a year to live - my dad was given TWO MONTH'S notice. they both sorted their stuff out.
Freddie knew he had a terminal illness from approx 1987...that's at least FOUR FUCKING YEARS!!!!....
it was freddie's mess and Mary had to deal with it. - So it's Freddie's fault - and FREDDIE'S FAULT ALONE, and just because freddie loved Jim it doesn't make Jim some blameless plaster saint...if anything he could be the exact opposite

[QUOTE] [b]gerry wrote:[/b]Poor soul she has all that wealth and moaning because she thinks its hard to cope with it all, well some people in this country are using food banks and in the gutters, she ought to be eternally grateful to Freddie.[/QUOTE]that's the silliest thing you've said - try scratching the surface. try thinking about how someone who was Freddie's soulmate for 20yrs must feel - being villified by fans who think she damaged Jim and how people thnk she's some controlling bitch. think about the burden of responsibility and the deference to his memory etc etc....think how YOU'D feel in HER position - carrying out someone's wishes to the letter - despite what people say and think - that really is devotion and respect.

[QUOTE] [b]gerry wrote:[/b]I still think it was bang out of order that she never told kasmira , bomi & jer were Freds remains went.[/QUOTE] she has said Freddie asked her to carry out his wishes - and she's done that to the letter - just because YOU don't like it doesn't make it bang out of order....could you imagine several more people knowing where his remains are? that equates to several more people being harangued by fans and ghoul-merchants and sicko tabloids...she did as he asked - kept it to herself and so only she gets hassled with the eternal question. that's a fucking humungous burden to carry daily and pretty fucking selfless in my book .

I've got a million times more respect for someone prepared to carry out a task no matter how difficult when there are so many more "easy options" available... as i said; let's cut Mary some slack.
I'm backing out of this one now

[QUOTE]

[b]brENsKi wrote: [/b] [QUOTE] approx 1997...
[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE]

1987.

[QUOTE] [b]Chief Mouse wrote:[/b][QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote: [/b] [QUOTE] approx 1997... [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] 1987.[/QUOTE]oops sorry - typo now corrected...stayed too long on the "9" key - but you know what i meant

I've just listened to these tracks and am stunned by them.

Double-edged sword stuff in that they shouldn't be available through agreement, but it was simply FAR too tempting to not pick them up. They display a sensitivity and gentleness to Freddie's playing which, presumably, by that time, had been handed over almost entirely to Mike Moran.

Imagine what else is 'out there'.......

Thank you John S Stuart - and I'm sorry that you have been, yet again, deceived.

[QUOTE] [b]kosimodo wrote:[/b]

These tapes should never have been "released" because they were an intimate communication between three men.

Somethings were just not meant to be heard in public.


[/QUOTE]

I don´t agree with this, to be fair.
If they were still alive, then yes, it should be kept private to protect them.
But now they are both gonne, so i don´t feel this is disrespectful to them in anyway. I believe that Queenfans and music fans in general respect Freddie and Jim and will respect the meaning of this songs. I think it´s beautiful that Freddie could express his love through music. It only adds a new dimension to him. Music was a means for him to express his feelings and that´s why he became a genius.
And the way John S Stuart talked about this issue was very respectful too.

In the end, i see this as those books that are now being released with love letters from big personalities, who aren´t among us, but when treated with respect, it serves to inspire others.

I like what i hear, but i respect the fact that John S Stuart feels bad about the way this was leaked.

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

[QUOTE] [b]gerry wrote:[/b]What has hacked me off is the fact that Mary is moaning because she has too much of freddies money, she should stop moaning or give it all away to a worth while charity like "The Mercury phoenix trust"[/QUOTE] i don't recall her saying that - i think she said the burden of responsibility was a huge one - and it would be - for anyone - when you have sorted out a modest estate following the death of a loved one - as I have you may just have an inkling of what a crapfest it can become - and that's BEFORE you get into the realms of a big estate and division of assets/wealth like Freddie's must've been for Mary....people round here should cut the woman some slack - she didn't ask for it, but she dealt with it with the grace and failings that most human beings would do so....[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. People think it´s easy to win the lottery or in this case to inherit a big sum of money and a 20m pound house. But the reality is if you don´t have a strong personality you will get Fu*k*d big time. That´s why so many winners of the Euromillions disappear and go live elsewhere quietly.

For Mary this was a very hard time i believe, and she needed someone strong beside her - a guy like Jim Beach. I really don´t think she could handle it alone, but if she did, more power to her. She had to grow fast!
In my book Jim was also a great guy, so i really don´t know what happened after Freddie died or even care. And the reasons why Freddie left Mary those millions, only Freddie knows. But i thought that he took good care of Jim too, i don ´t know.

As for his sister and mother, aren´t them the recipients of the royalties? Who´s Freddie´s state? I allways thought it was his family?!

[QUOTE] [b]brENsKi wrote:[/b]

so while people discuss what you like it's ok, but when it diverts - as most thread do in time (you can only discuss a certain topic without exhaustion for a finite amount of time) then it becomes "off topic nonsense" - glad you popped by to redress the balance - I'd hate to meander into territory you didn't approve of - and anyhow, didn't i say this would happen? [/QUOTE]

This post is in the "serious discussion" subforum, I dont know how quotes like: [b]Freddie may have loved mary with his mind, but he loved jim with his cock! [/b] or [b] if Queen & Adam Lambert ever released an album, to call it "send in the clowns" [/b] can be considered on-topic or serious, specially when you talk about something as personal as the origin of this tapet, why this songs were recorded, what did they meant to Jim Hutton, how many of this are in private collectors' hands, etc etc.

John Stuart wrote: I have never "released" these because they were an intimate communication between two men. Somethings were just not meant to be heard in public. 

And yet you paid for them to hear them yourself so there is a degree of voyeurism on your part is there not? And then you traded/shared them with at least one other collector (Fuller). How does that square with your statement above? Is it morally fine to share this private stuff among yourselves but somehow, in some unexplained way, a moral issue appears when they are shared more widely?

A separate but related point -- was this part of the "fanthology" deal? Wasn't the idea of that to make stuff "heard in public"?

Maybe he bought them to ensure they were looked after.

The playing was beautiful - full of sensitivity and sorrow. Very expressive. I was going to say I thought it may very well be Freddie because of the feeling in his playing, which not every person who learns to play can ever achieve. Glad to know it is verified. I don't know why Jim would sell it. Must have needed the money desperately. And I guess he didn't think it would be a betrayal of Freddie to let someone else have the tape. It's a lovely recording, and I see no moral issue with other people hearing it. I mean, I think it was OK for Jim to allow another person to hear it. And Jim surely knew that it may get released to a wider audience at some point.

Anyway, when people die, one of the emotions of their loved ones who are grieving is anger. And sometimes that is preferable to deep sadness. Some of the things said about Mary were from a personal perspective of someone who was grieving. The actual facts may have been entirely misunderstood or misinterpreted. Lawyers do tend to control what happens with a large estate. And their primary goal is to protect their client and reduce risk. If Freddie's friends (who were also employees), were asked to leave, I am sure it was because the estate needed to be settled, with all loose ends tied up to the satisfaction of the legal team. They probably had a timeline set by the lawyers (just my guess).