Israel: The Double Standard

I would never make excuses for Hamas' actions, not because I agree/disagree with them, but because they are the elected (chosen) governing body for Gaza. According to the NY Times, Hamas has denied breaking the ceasefire. It is thought that a group working independently may have broken the ceasefire. Still, seemingly Al Qassam acts on its own at times, and if they broke the ceasefire, should be reprimanded and reined in by Hamas. But really, did Hamas ""make"" Israel fire upon Gaza? If you believe so, this is for your viewing pleasure

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/hamas-made-me-do-it.html

[QUOTE]

[b]The Real Wizard wrote: [/b] This is the single most accurate thing ever written on the subject:

[url=http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/08/opinion/israel-own-worst-enemy-levy/index.html]http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/08/opinion/israel-own-worst-enemy-levy/index.html[/url]

He is absolutely bang on in pointing out that what most propels the IDF is the systematic dehumanization of Palestinian civilians.

I remain shocked that this was published in US mainstream media. He needs those bodyguards more than ever now.
[/QUOTE]
and stop accusing me of being "off my fucking rocker" - YOU are no better. YOU'RE only capable of seeing one side of this. but history dictates that that side is actually in the wrong.

  no. the single most accurate thing ever written on the subject is NOT opinion-based it is established historical fact - see below for some actual historical fact.

[i][b]From 1517-1917 Turkey's Ottoman Empire controlled a vast Arab empire, a portion of which is today Lebanon, Syria, and Palestine.  During World War I (1914-1918), Turkey supported Germany. When Germany was defeated, so were the Turks. In 1916 control of the southern portion of their Ottoman Empire was "mandated" to France and Britain under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned (mandated) to France... and "Palestine" (today's Jordan, Israel and "West Bank" and Gaza ) was mandated to Great Britain.      Because no other peoples had ever established a national homeland in "Palestine" since the Jews had done it 2,000 years before, the British "looked favorably" upon the creation of a Jewish National Homeland throughout ALL of Palestine. The Jews had already begun mass immigration into Palestine in the 1880's in an effort to rid the land of swamps and malaria and prepare for the rebirth of Israel. This Jewish effort to revitalize the land attracted an equally large immigration of Arabs from neighboring areas who were drawn by employment opportunities and healthier living conditions. There was never any attempt to "rid" the area of what few Arabs there or those Arab masses that immigrated into this area along with the Jews!In July 1922, the League of Nations entrusted the Great Britain with The Palestine Mandate, including the land east of the Jordan river, recognizing "the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine." 
In 1923, the British divided the "Palestine" portion of the Ottoman Empire into two administrative districts. The Great Britain made a deal with Hashemite Kingdom, Egypt and France in order to obtain control over Suez canal and oil reserves in Kerkut, as well as accommodate Bedouin refugees from the Saudi Peninsula, who were allowed to settle, ‘temporally’, in 1922 on the Eastern side of the Palestinian Mandate: The trans-Jordan (77% of the Palestinian Mandate) was given to the Saudi Arabian king's brother The Sinai, which was given to Egypt. Golan Heights (5% of the Palestinian Mandate) was ceded to the French controlled Syrian Mandate.in 1946 Trans-Jordan was renamed to "Jordan". In other words, the eastern 3/4 of Palestine would be renamed TWICE, in effect, erasing all connection to the name "Palestine!" However, the bottom line is that the Palestinian Arabs had THEIR "Arab Palestinian" homeland. The remaining 18% of Palestine (now WEST of the Jordan River) was to be the JewishPalestinian homeland.  However, sharing was not part of the Arab psychological makeup then nor now. With the help of British Jews were forced out of Trans-Jordan!    Encouraged and incited by growing Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East, the Arabs of that small remaining Palestinian territory west of the Jordan River launched never-ending murderous attacks upon the Jewish Palestinians in an effort to drive them out.  Most terrifying were the Hebron massacres of 1929 and later during the 1936-39 "Arab Revolt." The British at first tried to maintain order but soon (due to the large oil deposits being discovered throughout the Arab Middle East) turned a blind eye. It became painfully clear to the Palestinian Jews that they must fight the Arabs AND drive out the British.    The Palestinian Jews were forced to form an organized defense against the Arabs Palestinians.... thus was formed the Hagana, the beginnings of the Israeli Defense Forces [IDF]. There was also a Jewish underground called the Irgunled by Menachem Begin (who later became Prime Minister of Israel). Besides fighting the Arabs, the Irgun was instrumental in driving out the pro-Arab British.  Finally in 1947 the British had enough and turned the Palestine matter over to the United Nations. 
   The 1947 U.N. Resolution 181 partition plan was to divide the remaining 18% of Palestine into a Jewish Palestinian State and a SECOND Arab Palestinian State (Trans-Jordan being the first) based upon population concentrations.  The Jewish Palestinians accepted... the Arab Palestinians rejected. The Arabs still wanted ALL of Palestine... both east AND west of the Jordan River. Therefore, the resolution was not carried out and is not legally binding! Pro-Palestine-Arabs started the '48 war, and in so doing released the warlike appetites of a nation of survivors, a people with no place to run, who had repressed their rage for millennia, and had now earned full title to it! 

    On May 14, 1948 the "Palestinian" Jews finally declared their own State of Israel and became "Israelis." On the next day, seven neighboring Arab armies... Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Yemen... invaded Israel. Most of the Arabs living within the boundaries of the newly declared "ISRAEL" were encouraged to leave by the invading Arab armies to facilitate the slaughter of the Jews and were promised to be given all Jewish property after the victorious Arab armies won the war. The truth is that most of the Arab Palestinians who left in 1948 – between 400,000 to 500,000 – never saw an Israeli soldier! They did not flee because they feared Jews, but because of a rational and reasonable calculus: the Jews will be exterminated; we will get out of the way while that messy and dangerous business goes forward, and we will return afterwards to reclaim our homes, and to inherit those nice Jewish properties as well. They guessed wrong; and the Arab Palestinians are still tortured by the residual shame of their flight. So much for the blatant lie about Jews throwing out all the [Palestinian] Arabs!  
Israel survived  despite a 1% loss of its entire population! Those Arabs who did not flee became Israeli-Arab citizens. Those who fled are still called and artificially maintained as "Palestinian Arab refugees"The Arab propagandists and apologists almost never mentioned that in 1948, Arab armies launched a war against a one-day-old Israel. Instead he focused on the main consequence of that war: the creation of Arab refugees, stating that Israel "short of genocide" expelled 800,000 of them. This not only disagrees with UN estimates of a bit over 400,000 refugees but also ignores the fact that most of the Arabs/Palestinians were encouraged to leave by the Arab World itself! 
    The end result of the 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence was the creation of a Jewish State slightly larger than the ridiculous partition plan which was proposed by the 1947 United Nations Resolution 181. Egypt (occupying the Gaza Strip) and Trans-Jordan (occupying Judea-Samaria (a.k.a. the "West Bank" of the Jordan River) and East Jerusalem. In the next year (1950) Trans-Jordan formally merged this West Bank territory into itself and granted all those "Palestinian" Arabs living there Jordanian citizenship.  Since Trans-Jordan was then no longer confined to one side of the  Jordan River, it renamed itself simply "Jordan."  In the final analysis, the Arabs of Palestine ended up with nearly 85% of the original territory of Palestine... called Jordan but in reality their ARAB "Palestinian state! But that was still not 100% and thus the conflict between Arab and Jew for "Palestine" would continue through four more wars and continuous Arab terrorist  attacks upon the Israeli citizenry. It continues to this very day. [/b][/i]

[/QUOTE]

Wow! Talk about some heavily slanted copy-pasting. No mention of the Jewish terrorist groups in British Mandate-Palestine. No mention of the King David Hotel bombings. Brenski, you are so full of your UNCONDITIONAL support of Israel (meaning unconditional support of LIKUD in this case) that you are unable to see how you are making yourself into a tool for militarist propaganda. You're practically working for the far right now! The worst thing is - you're someone who is usually fairly sane, but you throw all reason to the wind when it comes to Israel's aggression on Palestine. You're one of those people who claim everyone who doesn't fully support EVERYTHING Israel does is actually supporting Hamas. I never thought YOU of all people would be such a short-sighted, narrow-minded pro-warhawk jerk.

[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]

Wow! Talk about some heavily slanted copy-pasting. No mention of the Jewish terrorist groups in British Mandate-Palestine. No mention of the King David Hotel bombings. Brenski, you are so full of your UNCONDITIONAL support of Israel (meaning unconditional support of LIKUD in this case) that you are unable to see how you are making yourself into a tool for militarist propaganda. You're practically working for the far right now! The worst thing is - you're someone who is usually fairly sane, but you throw all reason to the wind when it comes to Israel's aggression on Palestine. You're one of those people who claim everyone who doesn't fully support EVERYTHING Israel does is actually supporting Hamas. I never thought YOU of all people would be such a short-sighted, narrow-minded pro-warhawk jerk. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]

You know what Brenski? You can go fuck yourself with your heavily slanted copy-pasted BS. You accuse everyone who doesn't agree with you of selective reading, propaganda, misinterpreting and what not, but you yourself engage in some of the most hypocritical bullshit artistry I've ever seen on this forum.

You're such a filthy propagandist now that you try to force everyone who doesn't support Netanyahu and his FAR-RIGHT GOVERNMENT unconditionally into a pro-Hamas mould. That makes you a pathetic fucking bastard who can't win a discussion by arguments.

I've had it with you. Now that you try to usurp a position as a responsible historian you've crossed a line - you can go take your holier-than-thou attitude and your third-rate knowledge of history and cram it where they daylight never shines. You're so deluded that you probably still think you have the upper hand and the moral high ground in this argument, but you couldn't be more wrong. You support Israel unconditionally because the Jews were victimized by WWII - that basically makes you as much of a bigot as the people who want to kill all Jews because of Israel - you simply ignore that Israel does not represent all or even a majority of Jews. You're probably also crazy enough to agree with Netanyahu that JEWISH organizations that oppose his policies are anti-Semitic.

You've really shown your true face, Brenski, and it's not pretty. You're an arrogant bastard with a superiority complex and not nearly as much knowledge and expertise as you seem to think.

Anyone who justifies violence against innocent civilians is evil, and that is exactly what you do. You JUSTIFY Israeli WAR CRIMES and Israeli MASS MURDER ON CIVILIANS, and that, Brenski, makes you an evil person.

I could try to act like you and be a huge condescending jerk without resorting to swearing, but I'm not going to. You're a complete asshole and I don't give a shit what further idiocy you're going to hurl onto this forum - I've had it with you, and I'm not going to waste a single further character on your sorry person.[/QUOTE]

i've put BOTH your replies together in an attempt to address them both.
for the last time Capser: nowhere - i repeat NOWHERE have i approved of Israel's role in this. I am merely pointing out that some people here are behaving like sheep and refusing to accept any fault on the palestine/hamas side of things - which there clearly is huge fault. my cut and paste has historical fact in in. and the facts are that Hamas and various palestinian/arab terror organisations posing as legitimate govts down the decades have all attempted to eradicate israel.
the Jordan reference is pertinent - for obvious territorial reasons - that 60% of what was palestine went to on to become Jordan - but you don't hear Hamas swearing to claim that back do you? It's either ALL Palestine or it isn't.
one last point. nowhere have i stooped to insulting YOU or anyone in this thread - check you'll see i'm right. and for that i'm definitely out of this one.

my opinion is different to yours - buti haven't tried to indoctrinate or condescend - i've shown the other side of the coin - something very few here are bothering to do., i've put my point across the same as you have, yet somehow because YOU are a historian only YOURS counts. and to make your point somehow more worthy you stoop to insults and name-calling. but you know what?

i'm not calling you "evil" or "a warhawk jerk" or telling you "go fuck yourself" "bigot" "condescending jerk" etc. there's only YOU - doing that. eventually you'll see that YOU overstepped the mark with the insults. - or at least i hope you will.
ps - don't expect me to bite back at any reply you post - you've got nasty and personal without ANY due cause. You could've chose to argue/discuss in an adult and intelligent manner, but you chose personal insults and shouting loudest to make sure you win your spat - well ok, have your win. i'll know that i at least this time didn't lose it, and didn't stoop to trading spiteful insulting broadsides.

The leader of the Dutch Jewish organization "Een Ander Joods Geluid" ("A Different Jewish Voice") has passed away. He was a survivor of Auschwitz who saw eerie parallels between Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and the suffering inflicted on himself and his fellow Jews by the nazis and decided to stand up to the way that Israel became an increasingly repressive and unfree state that implemented the same institutionalized bullying that Jews suffered in Germany.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=nl&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nu.nl%2Fbuitenland%2F3859567%2Fantizionist-hajo-meyer-90-overleden.html&edit-text=

But I'm sure enlightened decent folk like brenski will tell you how he's really a Hamas-supporting anti-semite for not being unconditionally pro-Netanyahu. After all, Netanyahu is Jewish, the Jews suffered during WWII and thus Netanyahu is always right. No, don't think it through! That would be anti-semitic!

You are creating arguments on your own, TQ. Brenski never said anything about unconditional support of Israel's military actions or leadership.

Maybe you could create a few imaginary Queenzoners who are 100 percent behind Israel's actions and then you could argue with them. That might be a nice outlet for your anti-social hostility.

[QUOTE] [b]Donna13 wrote:[/b]

You are creating arguments on your own, TQ. Brenski never said anything about unconditional support of Israel's military actions or leadership.

Maybe you could create a few imaginary Queenzoners who are 100 percent behind Israel's actions and then you could argue with them. That might be a nice outlet for your anti-social hostility. [/QUOTE]

this ^^^. thank you. but no worries, he's unlikely to see your point, or even apologise for the insults he's levelled at me either.

one more thing:
Casper said this:
[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
I've had it with you, and I'm not going to waste a single further character on your sorry person.[/QUOTE]
Casper, kindly leave my name out of your arguments - especially when you are inferring/implying i said/meant things i didn't.

Brenski fuck off
t('')t

[QUOTE] [b]Jefffabiano wrote:[/b]

Brenski fuck off
t('')t[/QUOTE]

is there something wrong with you? read what i have said, and then what Casper says i've said - these are two entirely different things.
secondly, how dare you tell me to f*ck off, especially after your racists comments earlier in the thread.

Im not racist you are

[QUOTE] [b]Jefffabiano wrote:[/b]Im not racist you are [/QUOTE]
because YOU said this: - and ALL are racist.

[QUOTE] [b]Jefffab1995 wrote:[/b] How can you support these zionist pigs[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] [b]Jefffab1995 wrote:[/b] Brenski this is not war this is Israel disregarding international law to stop a country that cant even be self sufficient. Israel is a country of cowards and criminals [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] [b]Jefffab1995 wrote:[/b]Israel claims to be a victim brenski but they victimize palestine and honestly if Israel was destroyed the east would be a better place[/QUOTE]

one other thing: as emotive as this subject may be, nowhere have i stooped to hurling insults at either you or Casper. but YOU both feel it ok to insult me, and also claim i said things i didn't., everyone is entitled to an opinion. nowhere have i praised/defended israel - read again - all i've done is condemn Hamas' tactics. don't expect another reply until YOU apologise for your insults.

Why do you praise/defend murderers

Jeff is a sociopath/troll. Reminds me of another Queenzoner whose name also starts with a "J" - you know - fatty's special interest.

Ok donna i will stop I swear on your life