You can't handle the truth

[QUOTE]

[b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote: [/b] And for the record: this historian says Jesus is a fictional compound-character, mostly based on John the Baptist and a handful of 1st century BC / early 1st century AD self-proclaimed Messiahs, and a good deal of modelling after the Mithras-cult.

[/QUOTE]

I would rather not dignify these nitwits with a response, and the Lord knows , none of their tripe merits one, but it is not for these pack-of-wolves that I plant this sign-post cum grave-stone, but for possibly the one lost-sheep who still cares for the truth.

TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. The only "followers" of that nut-case, John the Baptist are the rocks like "you lot", which he can turn into his "believers".

God once born as a human, lived and showed humans, by example,  the way to their salvation.

Irrespective of the order in which these two events are mentioned in the Gospels, the true order is this.

1) First Jesus was tested and tempted by the devil, including being offered all the kingdoms of the world on a silver platter(typical of the devil to trade something he does not own). Jesus had to contend with the devil and vanquish him.

2) It was only then that Jesus was filled with the holy spirit in him, and was Baptized, as God wished, by both  honoring tradition and breaking it at the same time. In this world, there is both the real-deal and the counterfeit. The Baptism by John which involves dunking in water is the false baptism. The baptism by God , at the same time openly proclaiming "This is my chosen one and beloved son in whom I am well pleased", and granting Jesus the holy spirit which descended upon Jesus like a dove never to part from him is the true baptism.

At his point, please read JOHN 3 "Jesus and Nicodemus", the whole section. For Jesus' own opinion of John the Baptist read MATHEW 11 "John the Baptist", followed by LUKE 7 "John the Baptist" . Here,  I would also suggest(I am not sure which gospels and which section in them) reading on what gives Jesus the right to do what he is doing. I do not recommend any version of the bible, but if you want to be truthful, the truth has already sought you out. Hang on to every word of Jesus for dear life. It is alright for you to chew the cud, but it is far better to let the cud chew you. It is alright for you to play music, but it is far better to let the music play you.

If this seems like asking too much of man, it is exactly what God expected out of his own son "born" of him. Could he demand less of man, who is not "born" of him ? Jesus himself had to choose between worshiping God and worshiping the Devil.

Salvation comes free, yes, but it is not cheap. Life is not a joke, Salvation is not a rite and a ritual, Heaven is not a cake-walk, and God is not slighted.

Of course, you may choose to ignore the truth at your own peril. After all, if a lizard or a lizard-man, can scurry on still water, why do you need the son-of-man to saunter on stormy water ?

[QUOTE]

[b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote: [/b] Anyone who takes the Gospels literally doesn't know the first thing about the religious views of early Christians.[/QUOTE]

And I was wondering, who would not know the first thing "about the truth(Christ)", and would not want anyone else to know about it either.

Muslims and jews could have a word with you. You could war to see who is right... nevermind, i'm sure it won't end well.

If you don't even understand, from a purely theological point of view, the difference between God being tempted by the devil and Jesus being tempted by the devil, you're not just an idiot, but you don't understand the fundamental Christian teachings about the double nature of Jesus/Christ. Your disparaging remarks about John the Baptist also suggest that you're one of those so-called Christians who don't know the first thing about Christianity. I bet you don't even read Hebrew and Greek.

Bottom line: you're probably one of those ignorant converts who think they've 'found god' and want to spread the word when they don't even understand what they think is their own religion. "Pater dimitte illis non enim sciunt quid faciunt"

[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]

If you don't even understand, from a purely theological point of view, the difference between God being tempted by the devil and Jesus being tempted by the devil, you're not just an idiot, but you don't understand the fundamental Christian teachings about the double nature of Jesus/Christ. Your disparaging remarks about John the Baptist also suggest that you're one of those so-called Christians who don't know the first thing about Christianity. I bet you don't even read Hebrew and Greek.

Bottom line: you're probably one of those ignorant converts who think they've 'found god' and want to spread the word when they don't even understand what they think is their own religion. "Pater dimitte illis non enim sciunt quid faciunt"[/QUOTE]

Sorry, it was not god who was tempted, but Jesus. Secondly, one might have a split personality at best and both would still be human , but not Jesus. When Jesus was born, he had to forsake his Godly nature, and become human, he was 100% human, and had to earn his salvation, and become God in the end, when he was resurrected. So, if you are human, which I seriously doubt, you can be "born again" too, by simply following Jesus, but the world cannot crucify you now, neither Muslim nor Jew can, since Jesus has paved the way for your salvation, provided you follow him. I have never been in a church, and thank Jesus for that. I am neither a bought convert nor a paid theologian. I do not need to be, since, all of these are at sea. In the words of Jesus, "Father, I am glad that you have hid these truths from wise and educated people and revealed it to the innocent".

Yes, I do have my own a complete mathematical theory with proof, that I accidentally discovered, before stumbling upon Jesus which startlingly agrees with every thing that Jesus has said , including, for example, precisely what happens with every action-reaction cycle, "For those who have, will be given more, and those who have not will lose what little they have", which by the way is a couplet that needs to be applied concomitantly. Do you know, that there actually is a cross there ? Do you know that the entire Kingdom of God is in your own body; that everybody both literally and figuratively have to bear their own cross whether they like it or not. I fear, I have said too much.When I found out a few scientific truths independently and found that the only person who actually embodied them was Jesus in person, I was shocked. I only wished to reveal and disclose some of the final conclusions, cause Jesus himself forbids keeping quiet about him, but to tell about him. I am also aware of the exact pact that Jesus has made with man, which man has to follow for his salvation, including for example, which path to avoid, and which path to take, and so on. Of course with your scientific acumen you can deduce this yourself, if you just stick to the Gospels, and stick closely to what Jesus says, you can put the pieces together.But I do not want to stir up a hornets nest, nor have my way with it, but have dedicated it to Jesus for him to have his way with it. So kindly treat me as an ignoramus, and end this discussion here. This should not fall into the wrong hands, certainly not Jew or Muslim, both traitors to the true faith. This should neither be up for grabs, nor up for sale to the highest bidder, only privy to whoever is true, be they Jew or Muslim, or even Christian, or anyone who is willing to be true to the truth and follow it. If I have unwittingly hurt the sentiments of these religious groups, I beg their forgiveness, but I would like these very same people to respect my sentiments in this regard, and leave me alone. Do not pursue me. Pursue "Jesus" instead. Only he can save you.

You are clearly one of those born-again Christians. You're so full of your faith that you've completely lost track fo the fact that you don't really know what you're talking about, and you're easily tempted into hurling around insults left and right. You're turning the subtleties and complexities of a whole belief-system into a few simple soundbites - in fact, you are essentially breaking a commandment. By reducing your religion to such simple platitudes, you are one of those worshiping "carved statues" - the "dead letter" rather than the "living word".

You are a prime example of why I have so much more respect for the Bible than for the imbeciles who (ab)use it - you simple don't understand any of it.

Sorry Mr thomas, for doubting you, or insulting you. Please read my previous post again, and lets end the matter here in the right spirit.

You just don't get it, do you? You come on to this forum out of nowhere, blasting your sectarian-religious propaganda at us, practically ordering us to change our beliefs to match your current beliefs exactly. Then, when we don't all just convert straight away but instead present criticism of the 'arguments' by means of which you wanted to convert us, pointing out for instance how some are theologically inconsistent, you slither into the defensive and have the gall to come up with this:

"If I have unwittingly hurt the sentiments of these religious groups [TQ:not how you don't take into account the possibility that anyone who's NOT a member of a religious group could be offended by your posts], I beg their forgiveness, but I would like these very same people to respect my sentiments in this regard, and leave me alone. Do not pursue me. Pursue "Jesus" instead. Only he can save you. "

So now you're accusing US of intruding on YOUR freedom, disrespecting YOU and 'pursuing' [sic] YOU - an exact reversal of the actual, true situation. That is rather outrageous.

sundar, I'll take mine with pepperoni, mushrooms, extra cheese, and light on the sauce, please. Thank you.

TQ - despite your most valiant efforts, using reason will accomplish nothing. If this person were able to employ it, they wouldn't be a born again nutter to begin with.

"Yes, I do have my own a complete mathematical theory with proof, that I accidentally discovered, before stumbling upon Jesus which startlingly agrees with every thing that Jesus has said , including, for example, precisely what happens with every action-reaction cycle, "For those who have, will be given more, and those who have not will lose what little they have", which by the way is a couplet that needs to be applied concomitantly. Do you know, that there actually is a cross there ?"

This is most likely a person with schizophrenia or another condition that is causing a jumbled thought process. So no need to jump into a serious discussion of religion.

Wasn't there a guy not too long ago that was talking about Freddie's music being used by Queen unlawfully? I forget the details. Seems similar to me, anyway.

Yeah that was that dragonfly.trumpeter fellow a/k/a Graham Bruton. He's been banned several times over already.

Thanks! I was too lazy to look for it - you have a good memory.

Seriously, this place needs some mods or admins...