Justice? Not if you get killed by some two-bit cop.

Brenski, I did not attack you, I attack - if anything - your opinion. I did not call you any names and did not categorize you as anything. This is really important for me.

Of course I would feel very revengeful if a child killed someone near to me but this child did not kill somebody and did not carry a lethal weapon, he was carrying a toy gun and the caller who alerted the police pointed out that he thought the gun was "fake". What is also different between my country and the USA: the murder rate here is only a tiny fraction of the one in the USA and we have gun laws. We would find it absurd to allow every civilian to carry a gun and then be paranoid about the people who actually carry guns, it makes no sense. However, we do have racism and it is far spread but the country refuses to discuss this in the open making it worse all the time. Non-native Germans are far more likely to be killed by violence, they are also far poorer. If we do not solve poverty related crimes we will leave the field of discussion to the Wilders, Le Pens and Farages.

yes, and the "orange safety clip" which is used to identify these "fakes" had been deliberately removed...so how the fuck were the police to know?
just stop and think about the situation:
they act to remove a perceived threat and they're damned,
they don't act and someone gets killed? - they're damned again.
time people stopped blaming the police and started blaming the perpetrator or the parents who allow their children to possess things this realistic

And all the while, you ignore how the passers-by were utterly unimpressed, as is demonstrated by the released video footage. Also, the cop didn't give the child more than about 3 seconds to comply with any order he might or might not have given before opening fire. Finally, he shot him from so close that a non-lethal shot, to the arm for instance, as cops are trained to do, would've been perfectly possible.

Yet you choose to take the cynical The-Cops-Are-Always-Right approach, just as you took the Israel-Is-Not-Responsible-For-The-Palestinians-They-Murder-Hamas-Is line.

[QUOTE][b]edit dbl post - qzone server f**ked up[/b][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE] [b]thomasquinn 32989 wrote:[/b]
Yet you choose to take the cynical The-Cops-Are-Always-Right approach, just as you took the Israel-Is-Not-Responsible-For-The-Palestinians-They-Murder-Hamas-Is line.[/QUOTE]

which bit of my previous post DID YOU NOT read?
i've already clearly stated my own previous experience with constabulary - and seeing what happened to my father wasn't nice - which would give me EVERY reason to hate cops - or at least be anti-cop.
so Casper, it's time you stop globalising everything and stating i have said "cops are always right" - far from it.  I have said that in these two instances i believe the cops are right. any chance you'll now retract your attempts at putting words in my mouth?
an apology would be nice - if unlikely.

it's a good job YOU are not on any of the internal/external enquiries convened in these cases...because there'd be NO fair trial at your hands.

and the last resort of the desperate - you bring up an previous argument - where again YOU put words in my mouth. i never said Israel wasn't wrong - i said they were in the right in that instance.

there's little point trying to discuss anything with you - you actually see words and meanings that aren't there. for the last fucking time Casper - NOWHERE have i said/,meant/typed any of the things you state i have. all i have ever said is - IN THIS INSTANCE.

now if you really are the intelligent grown up you claim to be - then be big enough to admit you have put words in my mouth, and apologise for it...or is that just not possible ?

Everyone should read through this thread and note the miscommunications, the animosity, arrogance, name-calling, finger-pointing and attempts to deflect, defend and/or diffuse. You should then imagine the frustration caused by it all and multiply that frustration tens of times. The result will be only a small hint of the real-world, life and death conflicts festering between minorities and law enforcement. No wonder tensions are so high.

A very interesting article regarding the history of Ferguson (not listed on its wiki page of course)

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-tensions-20141130-story.html#page=1

The parts regarding the creation of the town of Kinloch, and the 'sundown laws', are two bits that never found their way into my school history books.

Now I better understand the resentment. This country is still dealing with some of the idiotic BS set up decades ago by those who love 'the land of the free'.

But I'm not going to write a 20 page dissertation regarding the incident, the prosecutor's 0-for-5 record in these situations, the time of the announcement, the following violence, or the illegal and dangerous protests that blocked major thoroughfares.

[QUOTE] [b]*goodco* wrote:[/b]

The parts regarding the creation of the town of Kinloch, and the 'sundown laws', are two bits that never found their way into my school history books.[/QUOTE]

History books in US schools with edits and omissions? Well, colour me shocked..

The same place that publishes books claiming Pearl Harbour was unprovoked and that the US won the war all by themselves..

But we did, Bob, we did;-)

Does anybody know if this is real or fake? http://vara.gulas.sme.sk/upload/posts/5/74/74695/large_extra/26e931b5dd127c86844f53e943b14ee0.jpg

[QUOTE] [b]pittrek wrote:[/b]

Does anybody know if this is real or fake? http://vara.gulas.sme.sk/upload/posts/5/74/74695/large_extra/26e931b5dd127c86844f53e943b14ee0.jpg
[/QUOTE]

Probably real.

I just can't begin to list the number of things wrong with that picture.

While it's obviously true that nobody should die for committing a robbery, this almost suggests condoning the act as if there should be some kind of implied impunity.

Well, then there is this. For those of you that don't know, another black man killed by a white police officer. This time, the whole thing was caught on camera. The officer was not indicted, but the man who filmed the whole thing was. I wonder now, what does a police office have to do in order to be held responsible for their actions because they are obviously getting away with murder...

http://njbw.businessweek.com/articles/2014-12-03/the-eric-garner-case-weakens-the-argument-for-police-body-cameras

I don't understand why Michael Brown and Eric Garner are being focused on by the media in the same way. Similar incidents, two very different reactions from the individuals.

Michael Brown showed aggression towards the police officer and very likely tried to reach for his gun before running away, and then getting shot. Is it possible that the police overreacted and panicked by firing more shots than necessary? Yes. However, none of this would have happened had Michael Brown not resisted arrest. Whether he had his hand up in the air or not after running away, it's up to debate.

Eric Garner on the other hand was unarmed, and he may have had a previous criminal record, but there was no proof to charge him other than suspicion. Garner never posed a physical threat during his encounter with the police officers, and tried to talk his way out of the incident in a civil manner. Then in front of a camera he was forced on the ground, put on a chokehold (which has been banned by the means of physical force by the NYPD), and apparently left unconscious on the ground for several minutes before an ambulance arrived.

Not only that, but paramedics showed up and apparently did nothing for five minutes.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/what-if-eric-garner-had-been-white/383420

There's just no calling the US a civilized country anymore.

I came into this discussion considering police brutality a far more significant issue than racial profiling. It seems I was far too optimistic about the US heartland. It looks increasingly like they've taken over the position of the Old South before 1965. All that's missing now is a few confederate flags and some white sheets - I wouldn't be surprised if the informal "White Citizens' Councils" already exist, again...


BTW, Bob - returning to an earlier remark you made: "The same place that publishes books claiming Pearl Harbour was unprovoked". I'd like to hear how exactly you feel Pearl Harbor was provoked? I see that particular subject differently.